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[DsnowMan]

Played IRL with Alchemist, Scrying Pool, Lookout and Margrave. We both like drawing decks, so I opened silver/potion while my friend opened lookout/potion. I got a Margrave first (and my own lookout), and off we went. My margrave hit early and often while we both collected alchemists and scrying pools. I won.

Checked with the simulator, turns out lookout is somewhat of a dead card here. Better to just open silver (55 - 42) like I did and get an early margrave & money lead (and skip the lookout), supported by card draw.

But guess what dominates both? Margrave + BM (75 - 22). Take that Alchemist.

Lesson learned: be wary of Alchemist. A shiny distraction at times, for sure. Being forced to discard your alchemists will make you sad.

[Kirian]

Margrave is nasty vs. Alchemist, as I and my opponent found out last night.  The reason is simple.  Let's say you have a UAS going, and you have the Alch advantage.  You top-deck 6 Alchs at the end of your turn.

You opponent plays Margrave.  You draw your sixth Alchemist, then discard three of them, having no other choice.

I was wondering for a minute how my opponent had so rapidly decided what to discard, until I realized that isotropic auto-discarded for him because he had six Alchs in hand.

[tlloyd]

True, but Margrave is generally no stronger against Alchemist than Militia or Goons, and weaker than Masquerade. And because Margrave provides +Buy, having one of your own facilitates Alchemist where the others don't. So I don't see Margrave as some uniquely brutal counter to Alchemist.

[mrdirt73]

True, but Margrave is generally no stronger against Alchemist than Militia or Goons, and weaker than Masquerade. And because Margrave provides +Buy, having one of your own facilitates Alchemist where the others don't. So I don't see Margrave as some uniquely brutal counter to Alchemist.

One difference between the Militia/Goons counter vs. Margrave is that when you have the 6 alchemists Margrave forces you to discard half of them whereas Militia/Goons only forces you to discard 2 of them.  Not sure how big of a difference that would make, but it's there.

[HiveMindEmulator]

True, but Margrave is generally no stronger against Alchemist than Militia or Goons, and weaker than Masquerade. And because Margrave provides +Buy, having one of your own facilitates Alchemist where the others don't. So I don't see Margrave as some uniquely brutal counter to Alchemist.

Goons also gives +buy.
And margrave may be better than militia because margrave BM is better than militia BM.

[DrHades]

Well Margrave and others criples Alchemist a bit, but when I know my opponent plays it often, I can just put only 3 Alchemist on the top and the rest will turn into Laboratories - not that big of a deal 

What is more dangerous about Alchemist is the fact, that it looks awesome, but it is often inferior to Smithy-BM, JoaT-BM and many others...

[WanderingWinder]

Well Margrave and others criples Alchemist a bit, but when I know my opponent plays it often, I can just put only 3 Alchemist on the top and the rest will turn into Laboratories - not that big of a deal 

What is more dangerous about Alchemist is the fact, that it looks awesome, but it is often inferior to Smithy-BM, JoaT-BM and many others...

Or just BM...

[DsnowMan]

We knew that Alchemist was a trap without +buy or something else to support it, but we both figured if you get to play your Margrave every turn, you were likely to find your potion & money, and get the +buy to buy province and more engine parts.

I didn't expect to see the simulated Margrave + BM trounce that plan so badly.