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[faust]

Well you could say the same thing of all the 9++ setups. Every iteration of them isn't balanced, but overall it is. This setup has a wider range I suppose, but I guess I'm fine with that.

Here I disagree. 9++ setups do their best to make each possible roll balanced. I'm not saying it works 100%, but it works way better than here.

On the "wider range": I mean, imagine you are presented with two games:

1) A normal, balanced game of mafia.
2) flipping a coin

I'd prefer to do 1, and well, the wider the range, the closer the game gets to 2.

[Hydrad]

One thing to keep in mind is that one side is always going to be imbalanced as It will have me on their team. So you should just accept that not all games will be perfectly balanced.

[Teproc]

Right, I agree it's a swingy setup. It's also a fun setup.

I also see very few ways to make it more flatly balanced. If you give more power to town in the vanilla setup, it makes the game downright impossible for scum with too many modifications enabled.

If people thing this is too unbalanced a setup to be a normal game, I won't do it, but I disagree.

[faust]

Right, I agree it's a swingy setup. It's also a fun setup.

I also see very few ways to make it more flatly balanced. If you give more power to town in the vanilla setup, it makes the game downright impossible for scum with too many modifications enabled.

If people thing this is too unbalanced a setup to be a normal game, I won't do it, but I disagree.

Well, an obvious way to make it more balanced (without taking too much out of the setup) would be to ensure there are always 1-4 modifications present (as opposed to 0-5). That way, the most imbalanced scenarios are eliminated.

[Witherweaver]

They can't all be the most balanced Mafia game ever.

[silverspawn]

Right, I agree it's a swingy setup. It's also a fun setup.

I also see very few ways to make it more flatly balanced. If you give more power to town in the vanilla setup, it makes the game downright impossible for scum with too many modifications enabled.

If people thing this is too unbalanced a setup to be a normal game, I won't do it, but I disagree.

well, you can always take scum power away from the base setup and tweak the modifications, though of course I understand that you don't want to make changes now.

You could also do something like, scum chooses how many (random) modifications are present, and they gain a little bit for choosing more.

[Teproc]

That wouldn't work, given that the base setup is skewed towards scum, so you'd need to give them bonuses to the point that it all the possible setups would be unbalanced towards them.

@faust : I'm fine with excluding the "0 modifications" possibility, I guess. I'm not oo fond of excluding the other extreme, if only because I like having the example in the first post to sum everything up.

How likely are those to happen anyway ? I understand they're as likely as any other given setup, but "0 modifications" is much less likely than "3 modifications" ... right ? Did I mention I'm horrible at math ?

[Archetype]

The setup is supposed to be favoring Town.  This is offsetted (or, at least, artempted to be offsetted) by the fact that scum can easily fakeclaim. So, yes, the extremes for modifications cause it to be more "unbalanced". But, since the setup should average 2.5, scum can fakeclaim to push it up to that or call the PRs scum if its too high. I did try to create as much synergy as I could between the different Modifications, and I'll admit that that could be improved, but I think the overall idea of the setup works well enough.

[Joseph2302]

How likely are those to happen anyway ? I understand they're as likely as any other given setup, but "0 modifications" is much less likely than "3 modifications" ... right ? Did I mention I'm horrible at math ?

The chances of 0 or 5 modifications is 1/32, 1 or 4 modifications is 5/32, 2 or 3 modifications is 10/32=5/16. So it's 10 times more likely to get 3 modifications than 0.

[faust]

The setup is supposed to be favoring Town.  This is offsetted (or, at least, artempted to be offsetted) by the fact that scum can easily fakeclaim. So, yes, the extremes for modifications cause it to be more "unbalanced". But, since the setup should average 2.5, scum can fakeclaim to push it up to that or call the PRs scum if its too high. I did try to create as much synergy as I could between the different Modifications, and I'll admit that that could be improved, but I think the overall idea of the setup works well enough.

Well, I think things don't quite work out that way. As it is, if there are few modifications, scum is stronger AND has fakeclaims, if there are a lot of modifications, town is stronger AND scum is deprived of fakeclaims. Things could be more interesting if the mods actually made scum stronger.

[Witherweaver]

Sure, but town doesn't know this.  As far as town knows, all claims are safe fakeclaims. 

[Seprix]

I'll join.
/in

[A Drowned Kernel]

As I've said elsewhere, the powers do seem like they favored town, but it's not like scum didn't win this both times (the first time flawlessly). Yeah that's a small sample size, but it's something to consider.

[silverspawn]

As I've said elsewhere, the powers do seem like they favored town, but it's not like scum didn't win this both times (the first time flawlessly). Yeah that's a small sample size, but it's something to consider.

I didn't play in the first one, but in zelda we lynched tracker and watcher day 1 and 2, and our roleblocker died N4.

Also, we caught the first scum because I RB'd him and made a no-kill happen, and the second scum because a team mate rolestopped him (and he was watched or something). so that's 2/2 scum caught just by powers.

The fact that that game ended up being close is actually what made me start thinking that the setup might be unfair.

[Witherweaver]

As I've said elsewhere, the powers do seem like they favored town, but it's not like scum didn't win this both times (the first time flawlessly). Yeah that's a small sample size, but it's something to consider.

I didn't play in the first one, but in zelda we lynched tracker and watcher day 1 and 2, and our roleblocker died N4.

Also, we caught the first scum because I RB'd him and made a no-kill happen, and the second scum because a team mate rolestopped him (and he was watched or something). so that's 2/2 scum caught just by powers.

The fact that that game ended up being close is actually what made me start thinking that the setup might be unfair.

It was Copped, and I was the Cop.  Powers did end up working out well there, but someone lurked his way through the game and won it for scum.....

[Twistedarcher]

/in

edit: But will be V/LA over the weekend. Feel free to start without me though, I'll catch up. Scumbuddies, make sure you post stuff for me to read in our qt

[Teproc]

Almost full already huh ?

Just to be clear : this doesn't change the fact that this won't start before M56 is over or very close to over.

Also, I won't make any changes to the setup as it is. It's not the most balanced setup there is, but I don't think there's anything gamebreaking there.

[pacovf]

The three mafiosi should obviously be called water, jelly and tofu burger.

I'll do it if you /in, how does that sound ?

Ah well... anything else you are willing to throw in the offer?

[Teproc]

The three mafiosi should obviously be called water, jelly and tofu burger.

I'll do it if you /in, how does that sound ?

Ah well... anything else you are willing to throw in the offer?

Clearly this is a seller's market, game is almost full when it won't start before a week at least !

In other words : no . 

[pacovf]

Damn. I knew I should have haggled for the spot back then!

...so that I could sell it back to taggers a couple of days before gamestart for a dozen respect or so. Economics!


I still can't /in, though, 13 players is too much for me in my current situation... If this still hasn't filled in two weeks, we'll talk again.

[ashersky]

I still can't /in, though, 13 players is too much for me in my current situation... If this still hasn't filled in two weeks, we'll talk again.

Dune 2 is only ten players...and you love setup theory.

[pacovf]

Same thing, I shouldn't /in anything before two weeks time, RMM21 was already a bit irresponsible on my part...

[chairs]

THIS IS MY HAMMER

/in

[faust]

So when will this start? Futuramafia is going to end/go into N4 in a couple of days, will we start somewhere around this time?

[Teproc]

I plan on sending PMs once Futuramafia goes into night 4 (or ends), so presumably sometime in the middle on next week.