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[GeoLib]

I was playing a game of Dominion (as usual), and I was wondering. Is there EVER a time where you would choose to not reveal a Province when someone plays a Tournament?

The classic reason is, it's a multiplayer game, and someone else already revealed a Province, hooray. You'd just as soon not give more information to in-between players.

Goko still gives it away with the slight delay.

Basically, there should always be a button you have to click which says "either I don't have a Province or I don't wish to reveal one".
Likewise, there should always be buttons for Reactions, Stables, Spice Merchant, etc..

This sounds great until you realize how horrible it would be to actually play.

[Davio]

I was playing a game of Dominion (as usual), and I was wondering. Is there EVER a time where you would choose to not reveal a Province when someone plays a Tournament?

The classic reason is, it's a multiplayer game, and someone else already revealed a Province, hooray. You'd just as soon not give more information to in-between players.

Goko still gives it away with the slight delay.

Basically, there should always be a button you have to click which says "either I don't have a Province or I don't wish to reveal one".
Likewise, there should always be buttons for Reactions, Stables, Spice Merchant, etc..

This sounds great until you realize how horrible it would be to actually play.

Oh it would be terrible.

> Scrying Pool
< Click I don't have a Moat
> Scrying Pool
< Click I don't have a Moat
> Scrying Pool
< Click I don't have a Moat
> Scrying Pool
< Click I don't have a Moat
> Scrying Pool
< Click I don't have a Moat
> Scrying Pool
< Click I don't have a Moat
> Scrying Pool
< Click I don't have a Moat
> Scrying Pool
< Click I don't have a Moat
> Scrying Pool
< Reveal Moat! Guess you didn't see that coming!

[amalloy]

I was playing a game of Dominion (as usual), and I was wondering. Is there EVER a time where you would choose to not reveal a Province when someone plays a Tournament?

The classic reason is, it's a multiplayer game, and someone else already revealed a Province, hooray. You'd just as soon not give more information to in-between players.

Goko still gives it away with the slight delay.

Basically, there should always be a button you have to click which says "either I don't have a Province or I don't wish to reveal one".
Likewise, there should always be buttons for Reactions, Stables, Spice Merchant, etc..

Sure, in theory this is nice, but in practice if they did this players would complain even more, about goko wasting our time. I probably would too: it's just such a hassle for such a minor benefit. I play my coppers one at a time on t1/t2 every game to avoid letting my opponent know whether I have a 5/2 or whatever, and even I don't think it's really worthwhile to make players press the "I don't want to show you a Province" button when they don't have one, just to avoid leaking information in the infinitesimally small number of cases where you do have one but strategically choose not to reveal it and knowing that you have one affects your opponent's future play.

[dondon151]

I don't see a problem with implementation of a function that says "disable optional reveal during opponent turns." Tenhou (a riichi mahjong client) has this function where you disable the option to call on opponent tiles except for in the case of a win, and it works just fine, although mahjong has fewer cases where an optional call is possible.

[Davio]

I was playing a game of Dominion (as usual), and I was wondering. Is there EVER a time where you would choose to not reveal a Province when someone plays a Tournament?

The classic reason is, it's a multiplayer game, and someone else already revealed a Province, hooray. You'd just as soon not give more information to in-between players.

Goko still gives it away with the slight delay.

Basically, there should always be a button you have to click which says "either I don't have a Province or I don't wish to reveal one".
Likewise, there should always be buttons for Reactions, Stables, Spice Merchant, etc..

Sure, in theory this is nice, but in practice if they did this players would complain even more, about goko wasting our time. I probably would too: it's just such a hassle for such a minor benefit. I play my coppers one at a time on t1/t2 every game to avoid letting my opponent know whether I have a 5/2 or whatever, and even I don't think it's really worthwhile to make players press the "I don't want to show you a Province" button when they don't have one, just to avoid leaking information in the infinitesimally small number of cases where you do have one but strategically choose not to reveal it and knowing that you have one affects your opponent's future play.

I know it's not practical, my comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek.

[blueblimp]

I don't see a problem with implementation of a function that says "disable optional reveal during opponent turns." Tenhou (a riichi mahjong client) has this function where you disable the option to call on opponent tiles except for in the case of a win, and it works just fine, although mahjong has fewer cases where an optional call is possible.

Wouldn't such a box amount to "possibly slightly decrease my win rate in exchange for making my opponent's turn more convenient to play"? Doesn't seem very appealing.

(For what it's worth, I'd be in favour of mandatory Province, Moat, etc. reveals in online play, although that is a variant of the original game, simply because the cases where you don't want to reveal Moat are so rare as to not really matter at all.)

[TheExpressicist]

Here's a thought: all reactionable plays come with a random 1-3 second delay that displays a "waiting for opponents reaction" dialog?

[markusin]

Here's a thought: all reactionable plays come with a random 1-3 second delay that displays a "waiting for opponents reaction" dialog?

But what if my opponent doesn't have a Moat and I play 10 Spies or something?

[TheExpressicist]

Here's a thought: all reactionable plays come with a random 1-3 second delay that displays a "waiting for opponents reaction" dialog?

But what if my opponent doesn't have a Moat and I play 10 Spies or something?

Then an edge case just wasted 10-30 seconds of your life 

I'm doing the math here, let's say 1 out of every 300 reactionable plays happen when a player has a valid reaction. And let's say of those times, 1 out of 50 would be worth not revealing the information that you had an available reaction. And let's be extremely, extremely generous and say that it gives you an extra 0.5% chance of winning. At an average of 2 seconds extra delay per reaction, that extra win would cost you about 800 hours.

[Flip5ide]

I was playing a game of Dominion (as usual), and I was wondering. Is there EVER a time where you would choose to not reveal a Province when someone plays a Tournament?

The classic reason is, it's a multiplayer game, and someone else already revealed a Province, hooray. You'd just as soon not give more information to in-between players.

Is there a time when the fact that you are presented with the option of revealing a Moat, or Trader, or Secret Chamber, etc. that would give your opponent a practical advantage? Like if my opponent has done Scrying Pool + Noble Brigand a couple times already and I would rather him think I didn't have a Secret Chamber so that he would leave my Gold on top of my deck.

[TheOthin]

I was playing a game of Dominion (as usual), and I was wondering. Is there EVER a time where you would choose to not reveal a Province when someone plays a Tournament?

The classic reason is, it's a multiplayer game, and someone else already revealed a Province, hooray. You'd just as soon not give more information to in-between players.

Is there a time when the fact that you are presented with the option of revealing a Moat, or Trader, or Secret Chamber, etc. that would give your opponent a practical advantage? Like if my opponent has done Scrying Pool + Noble Brigand a couple times already and I would rather him think I didn't have a Secret Chamber so that he would leave my Gold on top of my deck.

Your opponent plays Village and then Torturer. Your hand includes two dead cards, maybe green cards, and you have no discard effects that would give you a benefit to keeping them in your hand. You also have a Moat. If you reveal the Moat to block the attack, your opponent knows that you won't continue to be affected by later Torturer plays, and they might choose not to burn an Action on one later that turn. On the other hand, if you don't reveal the Moat and your opponent doesn't find out you have it, you won't lose anything because of having to discard those two cards, but your opponent may make a misplay by playing a second Torturer when it would be more worthwhile to play a different card in its place, especially if they Throne or King that Torturer.

[jomini]

I was playing a game of Dominion (as usual), and I was wondering. Is there EVER a time where you would choose to not reveal a Province when someone plays a Tournament?

The classic reason is, it's a multiplayer game, and someone else already revealed a Province, hooray. You'd just as soon not give more information to in-between players.

Is there a time when the fact that you are presented with the option of revealing a Moat, or Trader, or Secret Chamber, etc. that would give your opponent a practical advantage? Like if my opponent has done Scrying Pool + Noble Brigand a couple times already and I would rather him think I didn't have a Secret Chamber so that he would leave my Gold on top of my deck.

Sure, I want to let an attack hit me (e.g. Margrave and I'm holding 3 greens) if my opponent knows that I have Moat, then they should only play attacks that will provide some direct benefit to them (e.g. Witch yes, Hag no) and they should rerank their card preferences (e.g. they are trying to draw deck and they have a Witch or another Margrave, they almost certainly want to prioritize the Margrave over the Witch). This can extend to cases where an attack cannot hit me (e.g. Spy effects when I've got enough draw to draw deck regardless) and I hope to sucker my opponent into wasting actions on attacks rather than something better (e.g. Rogue vs Monument) if they end up stopped without enough +action.

Relatedly, I might forgo a simple reveal earlier on (e.g. gain a copper off a single Noble Brigand) in hopes of having my opponent gift me something huge (e.g. they elect to play Kc/Mountebank, I get six silvers).

Other times, it can be more valuable to not reveal information about next hand. E.g. We are near game end and I have Horse Traders it can be worth it for my opponent to be left playing the odds I have Horse traders (and hence can buy two of something to end the game) than getting an extra card and him knowing I can (e.g. he wants to buy an estate for a 1 VP lead, two provinces left, but that will leave just Estates to buy before game ends and he knows I have exactly one Horse traders in my non-engine deck).

Another common-ish thing is when I'm deciding what to top deck for next turn. If I have to set back a terminal with Courtyard, Count, Haven, etc.  I'm going to assuredly move back the card your reaction counters and play something else this turn.

There are many, many more cases here, but while these happen all the time, the odds that any of them will decide a game are extremely minute. I could only see this being an issue (and even then a really minor one) in highly competitive play at tournament level.