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Author Topic: Infinite hand deletion loses  (Read 3714 times)

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WanderingWinder

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Infinite hand deletion loses
« on: December 21, 2011, 08:53:18 am »
+1

I present you this: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/21/game-20111221-055049-262f2ce7.html
Yes, it was a very good board for fighting it, but still...

meshuggah42

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Re: Infinite hand deletion loses
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2011, 09:41:51 am »
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I lol'd at this, this guy was clueless. ;D
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Infinite hand deletion loses
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2011, 09:46:41 am »
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I lol'd at this, this guy was clueless. ;D
This guy is about twice as good as you are...

meshuggah42

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Re: Infinite hand deletion loses
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2011, 09:50:31 am »
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I didn't mean to be rude, just pointing out that he kept doing the same thing over and over without any sort of result toward winning the game. Seems pointless to me. I don't doubt that he's better than me, a lot of people here are. :)
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Infinite hand deletion loses
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2011, 10:00:18 am »
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He was playing a variation of the King's Court/Goons/Masquerade combo which does the same thing over and over again until you end up trashing your opponent's whole deck. He left it a bit late though and WW was going to manage to pull off a win before the lock killed his deck, so th2w0 resigned.
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meshuggah42

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Re: Infinite hand deletion loses
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2011, 10:13:28 am »
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Oh, I see it now, I was the clueless one then. :)
Sorry, I withdraw my previous comments.

I have a question though: is this combo good enough to try it? I mean it's hard to set up, takes a long time, and by that time the opponent can snatch the game just like in this case. Judging by the article about the combo it's more like an "interesting thing" than an "almost every time you win with this" kind of thing.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Infinite hand deletion loses
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2011, 10:15:27 am »
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I didn't mean to be rude, just pointing out that he kept doing the same thing over and over without any sort of result toward winning the game. Seems pointless to me. I don't doubt that he's better than me, a lot of people here are. :)
Okay. Here's why he was doing what he was doing, and why what you're suggesting would have ensured your loss. I had a massive, massive lead. If he tries to come back by some normal means, like buying victory cards, there just isn't enough green left for him to win.
So he has to go for a less conventional strategy. Check out this article: http://dominionstrategy.com/2011/03/18/combo-of-the-day-24-kings-courtgoonsmasquerade/
Here instead of goons or militia or ghost ship, he used margrave. And margrave's a bit weaker for this task than the others. But he was getting me to cough up 2-3 precious cards from my deck to him. And at the same time, I was pretty paralyzed.
What would you have suggested doing?

Also, when you're not meaning to be rude, not calling other people clueless is a start :)

Ninja'd
But the article's wrong if it implies the combo doesn't win real often. It's terribly crippling. In fact, I've never seen it lose before.

meshuggah42

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Re: Infinite hand deletion loses
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2011, 10:29:22 am »
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Once it's set up I can see that it's obscenely powerful. What I'm trying to ask is: is this something to go for if it's available or is it too slow?

Answering your question: I probably would've resigned seeing that your deck contained cca. 25-30 cards and you had caravans and horse traders in play/set aside to draw extra cards after passing your hand to him and at a rate of 3 cards trashed out per turn it would've taken a lot of time to trash your entire deck.
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theory

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Re: Infinite hand deletion loses
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2011, 10:30:42 am »
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Yeah, ordinarily what it does is it just trashes your whole deck while keeping your opponent at 0 buying power.  So typically even if your opponent can grab 7 Colonies, you can slowly trash his whole deck and keep him at 0-card hands every turn while you accumulate VP chips.

It's vulnerable to pile depletion, but normally you can set it up before your opponent gets to 7 Colonies.
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meshuggah42

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Re: Infinite hand deletion loses
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2011, 10:36:11 am »
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It's vulnerable to pile depletion, but normally you can set it up before your opponent gets to 7 Colonies.

It's vulnerable to horse traders too as shown above, right?
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mnavratil

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Re: Infinite hand deletion loses
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2011, 10:51:51 am »
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Kind of, but in practice, probably not. The idea is to get the oponent down to a three card hand that he then has to pass to you. Horse traders will let you have a two card hand the next turn instead of 0, but it usually wouldn't be enough to do anything useful with. The +buy can help you try to 3 pile, but I would say in most cases it would already be too late. Although horse traders + kings court (as seen in the game) is a pretty good 2 card hand.
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chwhite

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Re: Infinite hand deletion loses
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2011, 02:49:02 pm »
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I'm just going to leave this one here:

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110815-152439-09c6734f.html

Yeah, the final turn would be poor form in 99.99 percent of situations, but I'm going to go ahead and say that this (KC-Goons-Masq setup board) is pretty much the one case where rubbing the mega-turn in is almost acceptable. :P
« Last Edit: December 21, 2011, 02:51:24 pm by chwhite »
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To discard or not to discard?  That is the question.

GendoIkari

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Re: Infinite hand deletion loses
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2011, 03:33:11 pm »
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Here's my only pin game, where we actually both pinned each other; although I got out-pinned:

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20111205-151300-381644ec.html

What's interesting here is that there is no handsize attack cards! (Other than Cutpurse, which no one bought). Because there was no Goons or Militia, I didn't think that a pin was possible, so I didn't think about it. But, since pinning involves needing a small deck, and making your opponent have a small deck, I managed to pin him down to nothing after he pinned me down to nothing. Both of us needed to start buying copper again! He ends up winning mostly because he has a few cards stored on his Native Village mat, while I don't.
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