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[polot38]

1. Prototype
$4-action
+1 action
Draw 1 card per Prototype you have in play, including this.

(unfortunately hasn't been play tested yet)

possible variations:

$5-action
+2 Actions
Draw 1 card per prototype you have in play (including this)

$5-action
+1 Action
+$1
Discard 1 card. Draw 1 card per prototype you have in play (counting this).

(Thanks to LastFootnote for suggestions)


2. Dragon
$4-action-attack
+1 card
+1 action
Each other player gains 2 Burn cards.

3. Burn (this isn't a card you are intended to buy; rather more akin to a curse)
$0
+1 action
return this to the supply.

There are Burns in the supply equal to 4/5 the number of curses in the supply. The supply does count towards 3-piling the game, and can be bought (for $0).

[GendoIkari]

Prototype sounds way too strong. The second one is already a lab, and then after that it just becomes really crazy. I would start with a version that's more of a cheap lab:

+1 Card
+1 Action
If you have at least 2 Prototypes in play (including this), +1 Card.

So the first one you play is worthless, but after that they are all Laboratories. Even this may prove to be too strong at $3, because you want to get as many of these as you can. If so, $4 might be a good balance.


Dragon is interesting... really hard to tell how harsh the attack is. The pile count for Burn is a little confusing... why not just the same as curses? Or since they are returned to the supply quite frequently, simply having 10 may be more than enough. Also, why not have it be not in the supply, like Spoils?

[polot38]

With dragon it was actually play-tested, and the burn pile was originally set at 2x the number of curses. At that many, someone could just spam 3 or 4 dragons and quickly swamp the opponent with burns faster than they could return them to the supply. 8 is a good number because:
1) It limits the spaminess of dragons
2) If there is trashing, you can reasonably trash most of the burns to turn dragon into a dead cantrip.

I prefer 8 to 10 because it gives an even number of plays of dragon, so theoretically if both players had a large deck and then started on dragon, although in practice this isn't a huge issue because burns are constantly being returned to the supply. As for them being in the supply/not being in the supply, well, you aren't really ever going to want to be buying them. The only thing is whether or not they count towards 3-piling; most cursers cause curses to 3-pile in a lot of games, so why not another junking attack?


As for prototype, while it isn't playtested yet, i'm not sure it is that wildly overpowered; unless you are trashed down, you are going to have trouble lining up prototypes. I also don't think it is that overpowered compared to, say, menagerie. And about the $3 or $4 cost; isn't most of that whether or not you want a player to be able to open double-x? I can't see any issue with double prototype opening.

[enfynet]

Play Prototype (+1 = 5 Cards)
Play Prototype (+2 = 6 Cards)
Play Prototype (+3 = 8 Cards)
Play Prototype (+4 = 11 Cards)

Play Laboratory (+2 = 6 Cards)
Play Laboratory (+2 = 7 Cards)
Play Laboratory (+2 = 8 Cards)
Play Laboratory (+2 = 9 Cards)

[Awaclus]

And about the $3 or $4 cost; isn't most of that whether or not you want a player to be able to open double-x? I can't see any issue with double prototype opening.

That's true for terminal Actions. When you want to buy a lot of copies of that card, sometimes a $3 cost makes it too easy. For example, Throne Room is $4 and not $3 because of its spammability, not because a TR/TR opening is too strong.

[XerxesPraelor]

I'd consider opening double prototype on most boards it's on at that price, at least in a two or three-player game.

[polot38]

Okay, i still don't think that it's overpowered (i really don't think colliding that many is that likely, plus if you really start investing your engine into those, your opponent can always pick up some, and you need at least 4 before it starts to be any good), but i'll make a good effort to test it. As for it being good to open double of it; that is honestly just a worse (by far) start than caravan/silver.

Although i see the spaminess thing; i'll update it to costing $4

[XerxesPraelor]

I don't think it's enough to be balanced by your opponent getting some too - thst centralizes the game; I think it could be okay at 4, possibly needs 5 though.

[enfynet]

Okay, i still don't think that it's overpowered (i really don't think colliding that many is that likely, plus if you really start investing your engine into those, your opponent can always pick up some, and you need at least 4 before it starts to be any good), but i'll make a good effort to test it. As for it being good to open double of it; that is honestly just a worse (by far) start than caravan/silver.

Although i see the spaminess thing; i'll update it to costing $4

Well considering 3 of them is exactly equal to 3 Labs at a significant discount, that comes off as overpowered. Especially if you were able to start the game with two of them.

Consider the strength of a Madman chain and how much more difficult it is to set up. Another consideration is the strength of City and how it gets stronger later in the game.

As it's written, I wouldn't cost it less than $5. I'd cost GendoIkari's version at $4.

[Awaclus]

Okay, i still don't think that it's overpowered (i really don't think colliding that many is that likely, plus if you really start investing your engine into those, your opponent can always pick up some, and you need at least 4 before it starts to be any good), but i'll make a good effort to test it. As for it being good to open double of it; that is honestly just a worse (by far) start than caravan/silver.

Although i see the spaminess thing; i'll update it to costing $4

Well considering 3 of them is exactly equal to 3 Labs at a significant discount, that comes off as overpowered. Especially if you were able to start the game with two of them.

Consider the strength of a Madman chain and how much more difficult it is to set up. Another consideration is the strength of City and how it gets stronger later in the game.

As it's written, I wouldn't cost it less than $5. I'd cost GendoIkari's version at $4.

A Village and a Smithy are exactly equal to 2 Labs at a significant discount when you manage to collide them. A Herald is superior to a Lab at a significant discount when you manage to hit an Action. Being more cost-efficient than Lab when the card requires some work to do that consistently is not a problem, it's more of a sign that the card is actually balanced.

A Madman chain is much easier to set up relative to its power than a Prototype chain. A single Madman is better than three Prototypes. Two Madmen are better than five Prototypes. Madmen are cheaper than $4 Prototypes, and a bit slower to get but not really more difficult, if you consider that Hermit's trashing and gaining somewhat makes up for the lost buy. And while one Madman is slower to get than one Prototype, two Madmen are way faster to get than five Prototypes. The balancing factor is that you can generally do a Madman chain only once, or maybe twice per game.

I don't think Prototype would be strong enough at $5, and I don't think it will be too strong at $4. The more interesting question is whether or not it's fun enough at any price point.

[polot38]

Okay, i still don't think that it's overpowered (i really don't think colliding that many is that likely, plus if you really start investing your engine into those, your opponent can always pick up some, and you need at least 4 before it starts to be any good), but i'll make a good effort to test it. As for it being good to open double of it; that is honestly just a worse (by far) start than caravan/silver.

Although i see the spaminess thing; i'll update it to costing $4

Well considering 3 of them is exactly equal to 3 Labs at a significant discount, that comes off as overpowered. Especially if you were able to start the game with two of them.

Consider the strength of a Madman chain and how much more difficult it is to set up. Another consideration is the strength of City and how it gets stronger later in the game.

As it's written, I wouldn't cost it less than $5. I'd cost GendoIkari's version at $4.

This is fallacious; you have to line up 3 of them for them to be equal to lab, and even if you have that many in your deck, they are still far from consistent.  If it really is a good card, your opponent can snipe a few, even if they aren't running such an engine. Madman chains, while harder to set up, have a much higher draw. Nor is having infinity draw actually that helpful; sure, if you line up 7 of them, you can draw your entire deck (most likely), but how easy is it to do that without other cards influence? And how helpful are those last few that drew more cards than were in your deck? Take for example this case; you haven't trashed any cards, and instead have bought just 4 prototypes. In order to draw your entire deck, you would have to have at least 3 of them in your first 8 cards (which still isn't guaranteed to draw your whole deck, but w/e). The chance of this is a mere 18/143 (i'll post my mathematics if anyone asks), and even if you manage to do so, you still only have $7 to spend.

At $5, i think this card would be far, far too weak- honestly, you need to buy at least 4 before it was better than lab, and that is assuming your deck is perfectly consistent. The comparison to city isn't altogether helpful; it often has other conditions that help it, such as maybe there is a curser on the board, or maybe there is peddler, or any number of other cards that can cause a pile to run out early. Furthermore, it is often the only village on the board, and gains usage through that.

[LastFootnote]

I agree that Prototype is weaker than Lab, but I think there will often be a run on them, just like Fool's Gold or Minion. For that reason, I think a $4 cost is better than a $3 cost, but what I'd like even better is a stronger $5 version. For example:

Prototype
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. +$1. Draw a card per Prototype you have in play (counting this). Discard a card.

Or even just this:

Prototype
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+2 Actions. Draw a card per Prototype you have in play (counting this).

[polot38]

I agree that Prototype is weaker than Lab, but I think there will often be a run on them, just like Fool's Gold or Minion. For that reason, I think a $4 cost is better than a $3 cost, but what I'd like even better is a stronger $5 version. For example:

Prototype
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. +$1. Draw a card per Prototype you have in play (counting this). Discard a card.

Or even just this:

Prototype
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+2 Actions. Draw a card per Prototype you have in play (counting this).

That is an interesting idea, especially the later. I'll add it to the OP.