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[Graystripe77]

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201112/19/game-20111219-110549-52bbf371.html

Pretty fast, able to buy extra remake(s) to remake them into HP's if it stalls.

[ehunt]

Two of my worst cards. My instinct is to skip remake as it will slow me down in the race to the hunting parties and the hunting parties will already skip over my junk, but I don't trust my instincts with either of these cards.

[WanderingWinder]

It looks like you got crazy lucky draws there.

[chwhite]

Your turns 3 and 4 were pretty much as good as possible, which helps.

Hunting Party and Remake are two of my favorite cards, and I buy both of them at obscene 90-percent plus clips.  It's a better Lab, and (in the general strategic niche rather than particulars) a better Steward.  But ehunt is right that the two cards do conflict somewhat with each other: Remake is best a building a thin, high-average deck very quickly (in certain setups it can even be better than Chapel); Hunting Party doesn't really care if you still have all your Coppers.

My instinct is that this combo will have more endgame consistency than straight hunting parties, but is also slower to set up, which depending on the other cards could be fatal.  Especially if there's a danger the HP stack could run out.

[WanderingWinder]

Actually, I bet this is one of the situations that Lab>HP

[mischiefmaker]

Simulator has straight up Hunting Party beating Hunting Party + 1 Remake 69-26. I think this graph explains why pretty well:

http://screencast.com/t/WrINZD79m0rM

Remake helps trim the deck, which gives you better consistent buying power, but it comes too late. And once you get into the endgame, you don't have anything to Remake into Duchies (buying multiple Remakes doesn't help, since it's hard to draw them into the same hand with HP, and it means you spent a buy on something that isn't part of your core engine).

I also have Lab/Remake losing to straight-up Hunting Party, 37-57.

[Kore]

I get slightly different results when I simulate it, mischiefmaker. I see Remake + Hunting Party(s) being roughly equal to Hunting Party. Hunting party is not my favorite card as it's a lab that gets worse instead of better when you spam it but it does work will with remake as it will let you grab that remake with the estates to turn into silvers. If you manage to remake 2 estates into silver, you're already ahead in tempo compared to the big money deck.

I wonder if simulator might be misplaying remake by trashing coppers vs a big money deck. The coppers will skipped with hunting party and trashing coppers can mean a loss of tempo early on when tempo is so important in a province race.

Here's my script for remake + hunting party.

 

Code: [Select]

   <buy name="Province"/>
   <buy name="Duchy">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInSupply" attribute="Province"/>
         <operator type="smallerOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="5.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Estate">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInSupply" attribute="Province"/>
         <operator type="smallerOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="2.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Gold"/>
   <buy name="Hunting_Party"/>
   <buy name="Remake">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Remake"/>
         <operator type="smallerThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="1.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Silver"/>
</player>


[mischiefmaker]

Hm, I could swear I replied to this already, but apparently my post got lost in the ether.

Anyway, I tried your bot in Geronimoo's simulator (are you using that one or Dominiate?) and it loses to the optimized Hunting Party bot fairly convincingly, around 59-38 or so. One sample game I looked at had the Remake player trashing two Estates on turn 4, another Estate/Copper on turn 7, and two coppers on turn 12 (a turn where he drew 4 Copper + Remake, so couldn't have bought a Duchy, and he drew $9 on turn 13, so losing the Coppers didn't hurt). And he still lost by 8 points, though he was in second position, which seems important for a BM mirror-ish match.

When I let the Remake bot go first all the time, it's almost even with straight-up HP, 46-47, but of course just playing optimized HP from first position does better than breakeven, 49-39.

[Kore]

This is weird as I'm also using Geronimoo's simulator and I'm consistently getting different results. I keep seeing the split being roughly 50/45 in favor of hunting party/remake. This makes me think that I've overwritten the optimized hunting party bot somehow and it's not optimal anymore. However, I can't seem to tinker it into a better state. I'm certainly randomizing turn order and while I don't think a %5 difference in win rate is significiently better, remake/hunting party seems at least as good as the straight hunting party bot on my simulator.

Here is the optimized HP bot in my simulator.

Code: [Select]

<player name="Hunting Party" author="WanderingWinder" description="The optimized Hunting Party strategy that buys no other actions.">
 <type name="Province"/>
 <type name="BigMoney"/>
 <type name="Optimized"/>
 <type name="UserCreated"/>
 <type name="TwoPlayer"/>
 <type name="SingleCard"/>
 <type name="Bot"/>
   <buy name="Province">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Gold"/>
         <operator type="greaterThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="0.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Duchy">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInSupply" attribute="Province"/>
         <operator type="smallerOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="4.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Estate">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInSupply" attribute="Province"/>
         <operator type="smallerOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="2.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Gold"/>
   <buy name="Duchy">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInSupply" attribute="Province"/>
         <operator type="smallerOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="6.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Hunting_Party"/>
   <buy name="Silver"/>
</player>


[mischiefmaker]

Yeah, that one's pretty different from the one I have:

Code: [Select]

<player name="Hunting Party" author="DG" description="The optimized Hunting Party strategy that buys no other actions.">
 <type name="Bot"/>
 <type name="UserCreated"/>
 <type name="Competitive"/>
 <type name="SingleCard"/>
 <type name="Optimized"/>
 <type name="Province"/>
 <type name="Engine"/>
 <type name="TwoPlayer"/>
 <type name="BigMoney"/>
   <buy name="Province">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Gold"/>
         <operator type="greaterThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="0.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Duchy">
      <condition>
         <left type="gainsNeededToEndGame"/>
         <operator type="smallerOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="2.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Estate">
      <condition>
         <left type="gainsNeededToEndGame"/>
         <operator type="smallerOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="2.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Gold">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Gold"/>
         <operator type="equalTo" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="0.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Hunting_Party"/>
   <buy name="Estate">
      <condition>
         <left type="gainsNeededToEndGame"/>
         <operator type="smallerOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="3.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Silver"/>
</player>


[Kore]

That would explain it, the new hunting party bot is faster than the old one and buys hunting parties over golds. The additional silvers that remake offers don't help enough to overcome the delay in picking up more hunting parties.