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Author Topic: I blew it. I freaking blew it.  (Read 9403 times)

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Seprix

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I blew it. I freaking blew it.
« on: December 21, 2014, 05:27:03 pm »
+2

Game Found Here



Code: [Select]
Courtyard, Squire, Storeroom, Urchin, Spice Merchant, Bazaar, Contraband, Cultist, Mystic, Peddler
I will discuss the entire game and my thought process. This loss really has gotten me pissed. Man.
------------ Game Setup ------------
Supply cards: Courtyard, Squire, Storeroom, Urchin, Spice Merchant, Bazaar, Contraband, Cultist, Mystic, Peddler, Copper, Silver, Gold, Estate, Duchy, Province, Curse, Ruins
Rating system: pro
Seprix - starting cards: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel, Copper, Copper, Copper, Copper, Copper, Copper, Copper
Nikita Galkin - starting cards: Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Hovel, Copper, Copper, Copper, Copper, Copper, Copper, Copper
Seprix - shuffles deck
Nikita Galkin - shuffles deck
Seprix - draws Copper, Hovel, Necropolis, Overgrown Estate, Copper
Nikita Galkin - draws Copper, Overgrown Estate, Copper, Necropolis, Copper

 
Okay, so I start with 2/5. I know this will be good, and I'm already planning Cultist/Squire as my opening. I am aware of Urchin/Urchin being possible for my opponent to do, so I know I have to act quickly to slam him with so much crap that he can't connect his Urchins.

---------- Seprix: turn 1 ----------
Seprix - plays 2 Copper
Seprix - buys Squire
Seprix - gains Squire
Seprix - draws Copper, Copper, Copper, Copper, Copper
 
---------- Nikita Galkin: turn 1 ----------
Nikita Galkin - plays 3 Copper
Nikita Galkin - buys Urchin
Nikita Galkin - gains Urchin
Nikita Galkin - draws Copper, Copper, Hovel, Copper, Copper


With that first Urchin buy, I know he's going to get the second one. An idea pops in my mind where I can use Urchin myself and Cultist to get my own Mercenary so I can trash my Squire for an extra attack card.
 
---------- Seprix: turn 2 ----------
Seprix - plays 5 Copper
Seprix - buys Cultist
Seprix - gains Cultist
Seprix - shuffles deck
Seprix - draws Squire, Copper, Necropolis, Copper, Overgrown Estate
 
---------- Nikita Galkin: turn 2 ----------
Nikita Galkin - plays 4 Copper
Nikita Galkin - buys Urchin
Nikita Galkin - gains Urchin
Nikita Galkin - shuffles deck
Nikita Galkin - draws Copper, Copper, Copper, Hovel, Copper


Standard protocol.
 
---------- Seprix: turn 3 ----------
Seprix - plays Squire
Seprix - gains Silver
Seprix - plays 2 Copper
Seprix - buys Urchin
Seprix - gains Urchin
Seprix - draws Copper, Copper, Copper, Cultist, Hovel
 
---------- Nikita Galkin: turn 3 ----------
Nikita Galkin - plays 4 Copper
Nikita Galkin - buys Silver
Nikita Galkin - gains Silver
Nikita Galkin - draws Urchin, Copper, Copper, Copper, Urchin


I kill two birds with one stone, gaining an Urchin AND a Silver. I think my development is doing better than his right now, though I know the storm cloud is looming.
 
---------- Seprix: turn 4 ----------
Seprix - plays Cultist
Seprix - draws Copper, Copper
Nikita Galkin - gains Ruined Village
Seprix - plays 5 Copper
Seprix - buys Cultist
Seprix - gains Cultist
Seprix - shuffles deck
Seprix - draws Cultist, Urchin, Necropolis, Copper, Squire
 
---------- Nikita Galkin: turn 4 ----------
Nikita Galkin - plays Urchin
Nikita Galkin - draws Necropolis
Seprix - discards Necropolis
Nikita Galkin - plays Urchin
Nikita Galkin - trashes Urchin
Nikita Galkin - gains Mercenary
Nikita Galkin - draws Overgrown Estate
Nikita Galkin - plays 3 Copper
Nikita Galkin - buys Silver
Nikita Galkin - gains Silver
Nikita Galkin - shuffles deck
Nikita Galkin - draws Mercenary, Copper, Silver, Urchin, Copper

 
My plan continues, and he connects his Urchins. This sucks, but it's livable.

---------- Seprix: turn 5 ----------
Seprix - plays Squire
Seprix - takes 2 actions
Seprix - plays Urchin
Seprix - draws Silver
Nikita Galkin - discards Silver
Seprix - plays Cultist
Seprix - trashes Urchin
Seprix - gains Mercenary
Seprix - draws Copper, Copper
Nikita Galkin - gains Ruined Library
Seprix - plays 3 Copper, 1 Silver
Seprix - buys Cultist
Seprix - gains Cultist
Seprix - draws Overgrown Estate, Copper, Copper, Copper, Hovel
 
---------- Nikita Galkin: turn 5 ----------
Nikita Galkin - plays Urchin
Nikita Galkin - draws Copper
Seprix - discards Overgrown Estate
Nikita Galkin - plays Mercenary
Nikita Galkin - trashes Urchin
Nikita Galkin - gains Mercenary
Nikita Galkin - trashes Copper, Copper
Nikita Galkin - draws Copper, Copper
Seprix - discards Hovel
Nikita Galkin - plays 3 Copper
Nikita Galkin - buys Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - gains Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - draws Copper, Silver, Hovel, Copper, Overgrown Estate

 
Okay, so it's going nicely. I have a Mercenary too, and I can cut off his circulation with ruins and discarding attacks.

---------- Seprix: turn 6 ----------
Seprix - plays 3 Copper
Seprix - buys Silver
Seprix - gains Silver
Seprix - draws Copper, Cultist
Seprix - shuffles deck
Seprix - draws Copper, Copper, Silver
 
---------- Nikita Galkin: turn 6 ----------
Nikita Galkin - plays 2 Copper, 1 Silver
Nikita Galkin - buys Urchin
Nikita Galkin - gains Urchin
Nikita Galkin - draws Ruined Village, Necropolis
Nikita Galkin - shuffles deck
Nikita Galkin - draws Bazaar, Copper, Mercenary


He gets another Urchin, as expected. I start to wonder whether I made the right call with my deck, but it's too late now, and I continue forward.
 
---------- Seprix: turn 7 ----------
Seprix - plays Cultist
Seprix - draws Cultist, Mercenary
Nikita Galkin - gains Survivors
Seprix - plays Cultist
Seprix - draws Copper, Hovel
Nikita Galkin - gains Ruined Library
Seprix - plays 4 Copper, 1 Silver
Seprix - buys Gold
Seprix - gains Gold
Seprix - draws Copper, Copper, Silver, Squire, Overgrown Estate
 
---------- Nikita Galkin: turn 7 ----------
Nikita Galkin - plays Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - draws Copper
Nikita Galkin - plays Mercenary
Nikita Galkin - trashes Ruined Village, Necropolis
Nikita Galkin - draws Copper, Silver
Seprix - discards Overgrown Estate
Seprix - discards Copper
Nikita Galkin - plays 3 Copper, 1 Silver
Nikita Galkin - buys Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - gains Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - draws Urchin, Copper, Hovel, Overgrown Estate, Ruined Library


I draw my Mercenary dead, and he hits me with his. Bad start.
 
---------- Seprix: turn 8 ----------
Seprix - plays Squire
Seprix - gains Silver
Seprix - plays 1 Copper, 1 Silver
Seprix - buys Silver
Seprix - gains Silver
Seprix - draws Copper, Necropolis, Cultist
Seprix - shuffles deck
Seprix - draws Cultist, Silver
 
---------- Nikita Galkin: turn 8 ----------
Nikita Galkin - plays Urchin
Nikita Galkin - draws Copper
Seprix - discards Copper
Nikita Galkin - plays Ruined Library
Nikita Galkin - draws Mercenary
Nikita Galkin - plays 2 Copper
Nikita Galkin - buys Squire
Nikita Galkin - gains Squire
Nikita Galkin - draws Silver
Nikita Galkin - shuffles deck
Nikita Galkin - draws Mercenary, Copper, Copper, Squire
 
---------- Seprix: turn 9 ----------
Seprix - plays Necropolis
Seprix - plays Cultist
Seprix - draws Cultist, Copper
Nikita Galkin - gains Ruined Market
Seprix - plays Cultist
Seprix - draws Copper, Copper
Nikita Galkin - gains Ruined Village
Seprix - plays Cultist
Seprix - draws Copper, Silver
Nikita Galkin - gains Survivors
Seprix - plays 4 Copper, 2 Silver
Seprix - buys Gold
Seprix - gains Gold
Seprix - draws Copper, Mercenary, Squire, Hovel, Copper
 
---------- Nikita Galkin: turn 9 ----------
Nikita Galkin - plays Squire
Nikita Galkin - takes 2 actions
Nikita Galkin - plays Mercenary
Nikita Galkin - trashes Copper, Copper
Nikita Galkin - draws Ruined Library, Copper
Seprix - discards Hovel
Seprix - discards Copper
Nikita Galkin - plays Ruined Library
Nikita Galkin - draws Copper
Nikita Galkin - plays 2 Copper, 1 Silver
Nikita Galkin - buys Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - gains Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - draws Urchin, Survivors, Bazaar, Copper, Overgrown Estate
 
---------- Seprix: turn 10 ----------
Seprix - plays Squire
Seprix - takes 2 actions
Seprix - plays Mercenary
Seprix - trashes Copper
Seprix - draws Gold, Silver, Overgrown Estate, Silver
Seprix - shuffles deck
Seprix - draws Cultist


I'm giving him fuel, and I'm cutting off circulation for myself as well because I don't have money to do anything, because he keeps using Mercenaries. He smartly buys Bazaar, which I should have done. He is eyeing a 3-pile with Ruins/Bazaar/Peddler, though I don't realize it yet.
 
---------- Nikita Galkin: turn 10 ----------
Nikita Galkin - plays Urchin
Nikita Galkin - draws Mercenary
Seprix - discards Overgrown Estate
Nikita Galkin - plays Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - draws Silver
Nikita Galkin - plays Mercenary
Nikita Galkin - trashes Urchin
Nikita Galkin - gains Mercenary
Nikita Galkin - trashes Overgrown Estate, Survivors
Nikita Galkin - draws Hovel
Nikita Galkin - draws Bazaar, Ruined Library
Seprix - discards Silver
Nikita Galkin - plays Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - shuffles deck
Nikita Galkin - draws Copper
Nikita Galkin - plays Ruined Library
Nikita Galkin - draws Mercenary
Nikita Galkin - plays Mercenary
Nikita Galkin - trashes Hovel, Copper
Nikita Galkin - draws Silver, Squire
Nikita Galkin - plays 2 Silver, 1 Copper
Nikita Galkin - buys Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - gains Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - draws Mercenary, Copper, Ruined Village, Ruined Market, Survivors
 
---------- Seprix: turn 11 ----------
Seprix - plays Cultist
Seprix - draws Mercenary, Copper
Nikita Galkin - gains Abandoned Mine
Seprix - plays 1 Gold, 1 Silver, 1 Copper
Seprix - buys Gold
Seprix - gains Gold
Seprix - draws Cultist, Silver, Gold, Silver, Squire


My first Gold, my plan is a quick BM deck with consistent $8 draw, to quickly win before he can clean up his deck and blow me up. I also draw my Mercenary dead again, frustrating me further.
 
---------- Nikita Galkin: turn 11 ----------
Nikita Galkin - plays Mercenary
Nikita Galkin - trashes Ruined Market, Survivors
Nikita Galkin - draws Ruined Library, Bazaar
Seprix - discards Silver
Seprix - discards Silver
Nikita Galkin - plays 1 Copper
Nikita Galkin - buys Squire
Nikita Galkin - gains Squire
Nikita Galkin - shuffles deck
Nikita Galkin - draws Abandoned Mine, Bazaar, Mercenary, Squire, Copper
 
---------- Seprix: turn 12 ----------
Seprix - plays Squire
Seprix - takes 2 actions
Seprix - plays Cultist
Seprix - draws Copper, Copper
Nikita Galkin - gains Abandoned Mine
Seprix - plays 2 Copper, 1 Gold
Seprix - buys Cultist
Seprix - gains Cultist
Seprix - draws Hovel, Copper, Cultist, Copper, Necropolis
 
---------- Nikita Galkin: turn 12 ----------
Nikita Galkin - plays Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - draws Ruined Village
Nikita Galkin - plays Mercenary
Nikita Galkin - trashes Ruined Village, Abandoned Mine
Nikita Galkin - draws Copper, Silver
Seprix - discards Hovel
Seprix - discards Copper
Nikita Galkin - plays Squire
Nikita Galkin - takes 2 buys
Nikita Galkin - plays 2 Copper, 1 Silver
Nikita Galkin - buys Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - gains Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - buys Peddler
Nikita Galkin - gains Peddler
Nikita Galkin - draws Ruined Library, Bazaar, Bazaar, Ruined Library, Squire


I realize his plan to buy out 3-piles, and I know I have to quickly put the game out of reach, though I don't want to Green yet, since his Mercenary attack constantly puts me with bad hands and I'm sure I can't survive if I green now.
 
---------- Seprix: turn 13 ----------
Seprix - plays Necropolis
Seprix - plays Cultist
Seprix - draws Copper
Seprix - shuffles deck
Seprix - draws Hovel
Nikita Galkin - gains Ruined Library
Seprix - draws Gold, Copper, Copper, Copper, Gold
 
---------- Nikita Galkin: turn 13 ----------
Nikita Galkin - plays Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - draws Mercenary
Nikita Galkin - plays Mercenary
Nikita Galkin - trashes Ruined Library, Ruined Library
Nikita Galkin - draws Silver, Bazaar
Seprix - discards Copper
Seprix - discards Copper
Nikita Galkin - plays Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - draws Mercenary
Nikita Galkin - plays Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - shuffles deck
Nikita Galkin - draws Peddler
Nikita Galkin - plays Peddler
Nikita Galkin - draws Ruined Library
Nikita Galkin - plays Mercenary
Nikita Galkin - trashes Ruined Library, Silver
Nikita Galkin - draws Bazaar, Mercenary
Nikita Galkin - plays Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - draws Squire
Nikita Galkin - plays Squire
Nikita Galkin - takes 2 buys
Nikita Galkin - plays Squire
Nikita Galkin - takes 2 actions
Nikita Galkin - plays Mercenary
Nikita Galkin - buys Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - gains Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - buys Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - gains Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - buys Peddler
Nikita Galkin - gains Peddler
Nikita Galkin - draws Bazaar, Abandoned Mine, Copper, Silver, Copper


I get a terrible draw, only barely hurting him before he goes nuclear on his turn. I'm starting to worry about my chances.
 
---------- Seprix: turn 14 ----------
Seprix - plays 2 Gold, 1 Copper
Seprix - buys Cultist
Seprix - gains Cultist
Seprix - draws Cultist, Overgrown Estate, Copper, Silver, Silver
 
---------- Nikita Galkin: turn 14 ----------
Nikita Galkin - plays Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - shuffles deck
Nikita Galkin - draws Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - plays Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - draws Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - plays Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - draws Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - plays Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - draws Mercenary
Nikita Galkin - plays Mercenary
Nikita Galkin - trashes Abandoned Mine, Copper
Nikita Galkin - draws Squire, Peddler
Seprix - discards Overgrown Estate
Seprix - discards Copper
Nikita Galkin - plays Peddler
Nikita Galkin - draws Mercenary
Nikita Galkin - plays Squire
Nikita Galkin - takes 2 buys
Nikita Galkin - plays Mercenary
Nikita Galkin - trashes Copper, Silver
Nikita Galkin - draws Mercenary, Peddler
Nikita Galkin - plays Peddler
Nikita Galkin - draws Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - plays Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - draws Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - plays Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - draws Squire
Nikita Galkin - plays Squire
Nikita Galkin - takes 2 buys
Nikita Galkin - plays Mercenary
Nikita Galkin - buys Squire
Nikita Galkin - gains Squire
Nikita Galkin - buys Squire
Nikita Galkin - gains Squire
Nikita Galkin - buys Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - gains Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - buys Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - gains Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - buys Peddler
Nikita Galkin - gains Peddler
Nikita Galkin - draws Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - shuffles deck
Nikita Galkin - draws Peddler, Squire, Bazaar, Peddler

 
His early Squire buying is paying off, and my plan is falling apart. He can keep gaining pieces and I can't do anything about it, because he keeps sending me to the stone age with those blasted Mercenaries.

---------- Seprix: turn 15 ----------
Seprix - plays Cultist
Seprix - draws Cultist, Mercenary
Seprix - plays Cultist
Seprix - draws Gold, Squire
Seprix - plays 2 Silver, 1 Gold
Seprix - buys Cultist
Seprix - gains Cultist
Seprix - draws Cultist, Silver, Silver
Seprix - shuffles deck
Seprix - draws Copper, Necropolis
 
---------- Nikita Galkin: turn 15 ----------
Nikita Galkin - plays Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - draws Peddler
Nikita Galkin - plays Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - draws Mercenary
Nikita Galkin - plays Peddler
Nikita Galkin - draws Squire
Nikita Galkin - plays Peddler
Nikita Galkin - draws Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - plays Peddler
Nikita Galkin - draws Mercenary
Nikita Galkin - plays Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - draws Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - plays Squire
Nikita Galkin - takes 2 buys
Nikita Galkin - plays Squire
Nikita Galkin - takes 2 buys
Nikita Galkin - plays Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - draws Squire
Nikita Galkin - plays Squire
Nikita Galkin - takes 2 buys
Nikita Galkin - plays Mercenary
Nikita Galkin - trashes Mercenary
Nikita Galkin - buys Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - gains Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - buys Peddler
Nikita Galkin - gains Peddler
Nikita Galkin - buys Peddler
Nikita Galkin - gains Peddler
Nikita Galkin - buys Peddler
Nikita Galkin - gains Peddler
Nikita Galkin - buys Peddler
Nikita Galkin - gains Peddler
Nikita Galkin - buys Peddler
Nikita Galkin - gains Peddler
Nikita Galkin - buys Peddler
Nikita Galkin - gains Peddler
Nikita Galkin - draws Mercenary, Squire, Bazaar, Bazaar, Bazaar

 
I LOVE drawing Mercenary dead! He continues his plan, and I know I have to get points, NOW. Maybe he won't notice he can 3-pile, and I can steal a win!

---------- Seprix: turn 16 ----------
Seprix - plays Necropolis
Seprix - plays Cultist
Seprix - draws Gold, Copper
Seprix - plays 2 Silver, 2 Copper, 1 Gold
Seprix - buys Province
Seprix - gains Province
Seprix - draws Overgrown Estate, Copper, Hovel, Silver, Copper
 
---------- Nikita Galkin: turn 16 ----------
Nikita Galkin - plays Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - draws Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - plays Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - draws Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - plays Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - shuffles deck
Nikita Galkin - draws Peddler
Nikita Galkin - plays Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - draws Peddler
Nikita Galkin - plays Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - draws Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - plays Peddler
Nikita Galkin - draws Peddler
Nikita Galkin - plays Peddler
Nikita Galkin - draws Peddler
Nikita Galkin - plays Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - draws Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - plays Peddler
Nikita Galkin - draws Peddler
Nikita Galkin - plays Peddler
Nikita Galkin - draws Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - plays Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - draws Squire
Nikita Galkin - plays Peddler
Nikita Galkin - draws Peddler
Nikita Galkin - plays Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - draws Squire
Nikita Galkin - plays Peddler
Nikita Galkin - draws Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - plays Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - draws Peddler
Nikita Galkin - plays Peddler
Nikita Galkin - draws Mercenary
Nikita Galkin - plays Mercenary
Nikita Galkin - trashes Mercenary, Squire
Nikita Galkin - gains Urchin
Nikita Galkin - draws Squire, Peddler
Seprix - discards Hovel
Seprix - discards Overgrown Estate
Nikita Galkin - plays Peddler
Nikita Galkin - draws Peddler
Nikita Galkin - plays Peddler
Nikita Galkin - draws Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - plays Bazaar
Nikita Galkin - shuffles deck
Nikita Galkin - draws Urchin
Nikita Galkin - plays Urchin
Nikita Galkin - plays Squire
Nikita Galkin - takes 2 buys
Nikita Galkin - plays Squire
Nikita Galkin - takes 2 buys
Nikita Galkin - plays Squire
Nikita Galkin - takes 2 buys
Nikita Galkin - buys Province
Nikita Galkin - gains Province
Nikita Galkin - buys Province
Nikita Galkin - gains Province
Nikita Galkin - buys Province
Nikita Galkin - gains Province
Nikita Galkin - buys Peddler
Nikita Galkin - gains Peddler
Nikita Galkin - shuffles deck
Nikita Galkin - draws Peddler, Peddler, Bazaar, Bazaar, Peddler

 
Of COURSE he noticed. He counters with 3-Provinces and a Peddler to end the game on a 3-pile.

------------ Game Over ------------
Nikita Galkin - cards: 10 Peddler, 10 Bazaar, 3 Squire, 1 Mercenary, 1 Urchin, 3 Province
Nikita Galkin - total victory points: 18
Nikita Galkin - turns: 16
 
Seprix - cards: 6 Cultist, 1 Necropolis, 1 Squire, 1 Mercenary, 6 Copper, 4 Silver, 3 Gold, 1 Province, 1 Overgrown Estate, 1 Hovel
Seprix - total victory points: 6
Seprix - turns: 16
 
1st place: Nikita Galkin
2nd place: Seprix

What an utter loss. What did I do wrong? What could I have done? Where did I go wrong? Is Urchin/Urchin just that broken?


 
« Last Edit: December 21, 2014, 05:28:07 pm by Seprix »
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jsh357

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Re: I blew it. I freaking blew it.
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2014, 05:40:43 pm »
0

Well, whether it's broken or not, mercenary is excellent against junking attacks, so as long as you actually collide urchins it's a strong opening vs cultist.
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Seprix

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Re: I blew it. I freaking blew it.
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2014, 05:47:47 pm »
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Well, whether it's broken or not, mercenary is excellent against junking attacks, so as long as you actually collide urchins it's a strong opening vs cultist.

So pretty much, I was doomed from the start.
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liopoil

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Re: I blew it. I freaking blew it.
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2014, 06:27:36 pm »
+1

Your turn 7 gold should probably be another cultist. Turn 8 should be anything but silver. Then on your turn 9 that silver you drew might have been a good card, as opposed to a bad card (silver). And then gold feels wrong to me still, though I'm not sure what's better - perhaps province. All these mistakes aren't necessarily a big deal - you're going for money instead of actions, that's not the end of the world here. But your turn 10 was where you lost the game I think. You should not have discarded the hovel - either discard the squire or a copper. Then trash the hovel and the squire/copper left in your hand (remember that trashing the squire lets you gain a cultist) and not only draw cards and be able to buy something, but more importantly attack your opponent. After this you've mostly lost I think.

Turns 12 and 14 you get a cultist even though you have 6+; while this isn't bad in general, you got golds all those other times, you should be consistent and get another gold, or else get more cultists from the start.

You also got a little bit unlucky. However, you were not doomed from the start, and I would take 5/2 on this board no question. With better play I think you could have won, as in the case in most games. YMYOSL.
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Re: I blew it. I freaking blew it.
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2014, 09:42:52 pm »
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Edit:  Gah, I can't read.  Everything Liopoil said; T10 was the bad turn.  Hold Squire/Hovel, trash them both.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2014, 09:43:54 pm by Kirian »
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Dingan

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Re: I blew it. I freaking blew it.
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2014, 09:54:12 am »
+1

This is why I hate Urchin games.  Almost always incredibly luck-dependent.  He connects 2 Urchins not only on turn 3, but also on turn 4.  That is just about as lucky as you can get when going for the Mercenary route.  If he doesn't pair them up until after the first reshuffle or later, the game would have swung drastically.  So even though I would probably take a 4/3 (double Urchin) start over a 5/2 here, I don't think you played this that badly.

For the record, I hate all these usually-entirely-luck-dependent games:
Urchin -- whoever gets Mercenary first pretty much always wins
Tournament -- whoever gets prizes first (usually Followers) pretty much always wins
Chapel -- pretty much game-set-match when it misses your first reshuffle
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soulnet

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Re: I blew it. I freaking blew it.
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2014, 10:53:14 am »
+1

For the record, I hate all these usually-entirely-luck-dependent games:
Urchin -- whoever gets Mercenary first pretty much always wins
Tournament -- whoever gets prizes first (usually Followers) pretty much always wins
Chapel -- pretty much game-set-match when it misses your first reshuffle

All of this statements are absolutely not true. Especially the last one. Of course, every game can be lost by a bad shuffle, and Tournament and Urchin are especially luck-dependent, but if you think whoever connects Urchin first or gets Followers wins almost every time, you are 1) seriously mistaken, 2) making it true for yourself by not trying as hard to overcome those situations.
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Dingan

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Re: I blew it. I freaking blew it.
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2014, 02:16:15 pm »
+2

For the record, I hate all these usually-entirely-luck-dependent games:
Urchin -- whoever gets Mercenary first pretty much always wins
Tournament -- whoever gets prizes first (usually Followers) pretty much always wins
Chapel -- pretty much game-set-match when it misses your first reshuffle

All of this statements are absolutely not true. Especially the last one. Of course, every game can be lost by a bad shuffle, and Tournament and Urchin are especially luck-dependent, but if you think whoever connects Urchin first or gets Followers wins almost every time, you are 1) seriously mistaken, 2) making it true for yourself by not trying as hard to overcome those situations.

If there is data somewhere which can be queried to see the win percentages of both players opening double Urchin, in which player 1 gets a Mercenary before the first reshuffle and a second before second reshuffle, and player 2 doesn't get one until after the, say, second reshuffle, I would think player 1 would win the LARGE majority of the time.  That's what I'm saying.  Yes, any deck/strategy can be highly influenced by shuffle luck.  I'm claiming double Urchin games are more so shuffle-dependent than the average opener.  If you think it's still near 50/50 after the above scenario, I would bet you are highly mistaken.
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: I blew it. I freaking blew it.
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2014, 02:27:18 pm »
+6

For the record, I hate all these usually-entirely-luck-dependent games:
Urchin -- whoever gets Mercenary first pretty much always wins
Tournament -- whoever gets prizes first (usually Followers) pretty much always wins
Chapel -- pretty much game-set-match when it misses your first reshuffle

All of this statements are absolutely not true. Especially the last one. Of course, every game can be lost by a bad shuffle, and Tournament and Urchin are especially luck-dependent, but if you think whoever connects Urchin first or gets Followers wins almost every time, you are 1) seriously mistaken, 2) making it true for yourself by not trying as hard to overcome those situations.

If there is data somewhere which can be queried to see the win percentages of both players opening double Urchin, in which player 1 gets a Mercenary before the first reshuffle and a second before second reshuffle, and player 2 doesn't get one until after the, say, second reshuffle, I would think player 1 would win the LARGE majority of the time.  That's what I'm saying.  Yes, any deck/strategy can be highly influenced by shuffle luck.  I'm claiming double Urchin games are more so shuffle-dependent than the average opener.  If you think it's still near 50/50 after the above scenario, I would bet you are highly mistaken.
There's two things going on. First is that people overestimate the advantage of the early Urchin collision, it depends a lot on how much the kingdom rewards the early trashing/attacking and how much attacking later in the game (which P2 in this case will usually get to do) helps make up that difference. The second is that people underestimate the advantage of favorable shuffles on "regular" openings. If I'm P1 and we mirror Silver/Silver and yours miss but I get $5/$6 on the reshuffle you might be way more screwed than is possible on any Urchin opening. But there's no attacking so there's fewer mopey feelings: poor me my hand got shrinked. I think the mopey feelings are a legitimate reason to dislike Urchin, if you don't like mopey feelings. But I don't think the odds are as bad as people make it out to be.
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Awaclus

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Re: I blew it. I freaking blew it.
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2014, 03:03:02 pm »
+1

whoever gets prizes first (usually Followers)

If you usually get Followers first, you seriously have to stop blaming bad shuffle luck when you lose Tournament games.
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soulnet

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Re: I blew it. I freaking blew it.
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2014, 04:47:20 pm »
0

If you think it's still near 50/50 after the above scenario, I would bet you are highly mistaken.

I did not say that nor I think that. I think and meant more or less what MicQ said in more detail. The percentages only make sense if both players play equally strong. If you play reasonably better than the opponent, and he/she does not get luckier than you for the rest of the games, you would usually win despite the starting Merc/Chapel/Tournament luck.

Getting Mountebank or Cultist or Witch one shuffle earlier is probably similar. I mean, getting Merc one shuffle early is more or less equivalent to it missing a shuffle less, so, ok, you are 1-0 down on the "bad things that happen with Merc" game, but it is just 1-0, not 10-0. Also, discard Attacks are pretty high-variance in general, and Merc especially, so you being initially down by not getting it early has less impact on the final outcome than other stuff.

EDIT: Removed silly comment.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 05:12:14 pm by soulnet »
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SCSN

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Re: I blew it. I freaking blew it.
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2014, 05:07:27 pm »
0

If you think it's still near 50/50 after the above scenario, I would bet you are highly mistaken.

I would be very surprised if my winrate with a mirrored double Urchin open where my opponent gets the Merc first is lower than 40%, and I wouldn't be shocked if it's actually higher than 50.

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DG

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Re: I blew it. I freaking blew it.
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2014, 07:11:42 pm »
0

I don't think that the mercenary gaining hand is necessarily a big deal in the mirror. Urchins weaken the mercenary. I find the difference between early and late mercenaries is much more significant in a non-mirror.
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Dingan

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Re: I blew it. I freaking blew it.
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2014, 08:30:13 pm »
0

If you think it's still near 50/50 after the above scenario, I would bet you are highly mistaken.

I did not say that nor I think that. I think and meant more or less what MicQ said in more detail. The percentages only make sense if both players play equally strong. If you play reasonably better than the opponent, and he/she does not get luckier than you for the rest of the games, you would usually win despite the starting Merc/Chapel/Tournament luck.

Getting Mountebank or Cultist or Witch one shuffle earlier is probably similar. I mean, getting Merc one shuffle early is more or less equivalent to it missing a shuffle less, so, ok, you are 1-0 down on the "bad things that happen with Merc" game, but it is just 1-0, not 10-0. Also, discard Attacks are pretty high-variance in general, and Merc especially, so you being initially down by not getting it early has less impact on the final outcome than other stuff.

EDIT: Removed silly comment.

I pretty much agree with everything you and MicQ are saying.  There are always counters to Merc (draw up to x, Tunnel, other discarders, etc.), Merc weakens later in the game, and shuffle-luck can also be big with other 4-3 openers in an Urchin game, etc.  I get that.  All I'm saying is when a player has better shuffle-luck than another, it is especially apparent in games where both players are going for the same key-cards (Merc, prizes, etc.).  Like I said though, it would be interesting if there was actual data available to back this up.  Until then, I'm fine with agreeing to disagree.
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soulnet

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Re: I blew it. I freaking blew it.
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2014, 08:47:26 pm »
0

...especially apparent...

Nice slip :). I agree it may appear much more important than other shuffle-luck stuff, but it is not.

I'm fine with agreeing to disagree.

I agree.
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Seprix

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« Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 11:02:59 pm by Seprix »
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eHalcyon

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Re: I blew it. I freaking blew it.
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2014, 01:30:33 am »
0

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20141222/log.54109627e4b0750ebc1f6911.1419306327068.txt

How did I lose this? Seriously! How!?

How did that game end?  It doesn't look like your opponent gained anything on his last turn.  Did you resign?
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Seprix

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Re: I blew it. I freaking blew it.
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2014, 01:41:15 am »
0

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20141222/log.54109627e4b0750ebc1f6911.1419306327068.txt

How did I lose this? Seriously! How!?

How did that game end?  It doesn't look like your opponent gained anything on his last turn.  Did you resign?

Yes, he was prepping to buy a province, and I didn't want to stay to watch him buy it. He had enough to buy it already as the turn was going on.
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kylar

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Re: I blew it. I freaking blew it.
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2014, 02:17:38 am »
0

Maybe its because you always buy a gold on turn seven.
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Titandrake

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Re: I blew it. I freaking blew it.
« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2014, 03:43:00 am »
0

Maybe its because you always buy a gold on turn seven.

Hey, there we go. Problem solved.

More seriously, Gold turn 7 is too early, I would have gone for a Wharf. You can argue Ghost Ship, but I think Wharf is better. since you want as big a hand as you can get to make Hagglers great, and I think that makes up for delayed Ghost Ship.

Gold is wrong because it doesn't give you cycling and you don't need the money yet. Starting coppers + the Silver + Haggler should be enough to carry you through for a while.

Similarly your turn 9 should be Nobles gaining Wharf, not Gold gaining Wharf. In engine games, you may want to try treating Gold as a necessary evil - only pick it up when you feel like you aren't able to buy enough components. This isn't going to be the best rule, so you'll have to adjust this to the kind of engine you're building, but I think it's better to err on more actions than more treasures after you gain respect for Big Money.
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Re: I blew it. I freaking blew it.
« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2014, 05:10:25 am »
+3

Wharf engines without trashing: if you're drawing your deck, you don't need Gold.  If you're not drawing your deck, you need more Wharves.
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Re: I blew it. I freaking blew it.
« Reply #21 on: December 23, 2014, 12:11:25 pm »
+1

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20141222/log.54109627e4b0750ebc1f6911.1419306327068.txt

How did I lose this? Seriously! How!?

you bought gold.  But, no, really.  You bought gold.  There is no reason to buy gold on this board.  Instead, pick up 2 hagglers, and gain stuff. 

There are 5 cards you want on this board: fortress, ghost ship, wharf, haggler, nobles.  But the most important card?  Haggler.  Need to build the engine more? Buy wharf, gain fortress.  Engine with VPs?  Buy nobles, gain wharf.  Need to pick up that attack?  Buy nobles, gain ghost ship.  Running short on actions?  Buy nobles, gain fortress.  I would open silver/silver, then immediately go haggler on t3/t4 (if you get a double 5 haggler/wharf otherwise pick up fortress on the odd 4)  Here is an example of a game I played against a bot.  Granted, bots aren't great competition, but you can see the strategy.  Use haggler.  I even skipped playing wharf t7 in order to play haggler to gain more engine components.
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: I blew it. I freaking blew it.
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2014, 12:33:51 pm »
+1

In the first game you should open Silver/Silver. The 5s are too important and you don't need the Fortresses yet, you don't have any other actions. I agree with the comments about Golds, but there are actually more serious mistakes here. On turn 11 you don't spend all of your money! You have $14 and several buys and you just get Gold (Haggling Wharf), could pick up a lot more stuff here. On Turn 12 you do it again, could still gain double Wharf/Fortress or swap one Wharf for a Ghost Ship.

For the second game, you get too many villages. I think the best opening is just Swindler/Swindler. I wouldn't worry about trying to play more than one terminal a turn, so I wouldn't invest in villages. The villages can also be Swindled into a Potion. Pstone is actually okay here, but later in the game the Potion could be as bad as a Curse. A Plaza or two isn't the worst thing, but they're not great. The villages become more useful if you see your opponent going for Duchy/Duke, then you want to load up on Swindlers and try to destroy their Duchies. Swindler makes Dukes less useful on this board (but still worth considering). Turn 8 you buy a Farming Village with $5, I think this should be Cartographer. Turn 10 is a horrible waste of coin tokens to get double Farming Village, by then you should either be going for Duchies or Provinces. Turn 18 you use 2 coin tokens and buy Copper? You should give him Potion instead of Navigator when your Swindler hits a $4 late in the game.
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Kirian

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Re: I blew it. I freaking blew it.
« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2014, 02:39:56 pm »
+4

Someone needs to write a "Beyond Gold" article.
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Seprix

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Re: I blew it. I freaking blew it.
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2014, 02:49:26 pm »
+1

Someone needs to write a "Beyond Gold" article.

I'll be the very first to read it.
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