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Author Topic: Curse tokens  (Read 9707 times)

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TheOthin

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Re: Curse tokens
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2014, 07:18:20 pm »
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It doesn't really matter how they get handled. Inflicting a Curse token on a player is the equivalent of giving a Victory token to every other player. Removing a Curse token from a player is the equivalent of giving them a Victory token.
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Vislor

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Re: Curse tokens
« Reply #26 on: December 06, 2014, 03:56:55 am »
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What do people think of this card:

Privy minus1$ - VICTORY

minus1 VP When you buy this you get an extra $1 to spend during your buy phase.


I like it cos you get to "spend a penny"! :)
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Vislor

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Re: Curse tokens
« Reply #27 on: December 06, 2014, 04:10:21 am »
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Also I have a new idea for the plague tokens!!!

There is another special deck (am thinking of making flea a supply card like rats) - "Diseases".

If you have any plague tokens at the start of your turn you reveal the top card of the diseases deck. It will attack you in some way like the following:

Syphilis - discard an action card
Bubonic Plague - gain a curse
Leprosy - discard a card and gain a copper
Cholera - gain a privy

If you have more than 5 plague tokens you may not buy any victory cards.


ETA: No I think the plague shouldn't attack until the end of your turn so you have a chance to cure yourself before your next hand.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2014, 04:15:56 am by Vislor »
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faust

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Re: Curse tokens
« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2014, 04:41:14 am »
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What do people think of this card:

Privy minus1$ - VICTORY

minus1 VP When you buy this you get an extra $1 to spend during your buy phase.


I like it cos you get to "spend a penny"! :)

I don't think this would be bought much more often than Curse. It should at least give +1 buy to be worth it, but if it does, it's too easy to piledrive Privies. (I think there was some discussion about this effect somewhere that lead to a "+1 buy on your first buy" sort of bonus) Anyway, I think the situations where I want to junk myself in order to get a key card a rather rare. (Note that it has some weird interaction with Hovel in that most of the time, I would buy this, trash Hovel, get a better opening card on T1/T2) It would be more interesting if the card wasn't that bad. A Ruins effect Card that I can buy to get an additional +1$ might even be worth it early on.
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qmech

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Re: Curse tokens
« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2014, 05:21:38 am »
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To make Curse tokens interesting they want to have something of the feeling of Corruption in the Lord of Waterdeep expansion.  Early on you might accept them to accelerate your development, but you need a plan for dealing with them later or else the boost will have been far too expensive.
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Vislor

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Re: Curse tokens
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2014, 06:52:20 am »
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Ok, what if I made Privy 0VP rather than -1VP?
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market squire

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Re: Curse tokens
« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2014, 07:22:07 am »
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The idea of "junk yourself to get extra +$1" is already covered by the cards that let you gain Copper into your hand (Ill-Gotten Gains and Beggar). I don't think it is more appealing to have a separate, explicitly bad card with an on buy +$1.
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Vislor

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Re: Curse tokens
« Reply #32 on: December 06, 2014, 07:25:01 am »
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I could just get rid of these plague tokens and try something akin to "Confusion" from Donald X's original game.

INFECTION $0

It has no function or card type (other than INFECTION!). It is just there and will harm your hand by being there. You can obviously trash it or find cards in the set which will help you get rid of them/dish them out to others.


ETA: How about this idea?

Each player has an INFECTION mat. If the mat is empty, when they gain an INFECTION Card it goes onto their mat. If not, it goes into their discard pile. You have to trash the INFECTION card from your mat before you can trash one from anywhere else.



 
« Last Edit: December 06, 2014, 07:40:31 am by Vislor »
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Vislor

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Re: Curse tokens
« Reply #33 on: December 06, 2014, 07:28:28 am »
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The idea of "junk yourself to get extra +$1" is already covered by the cards that let you gain Copper into your hand (Ill-Gotten Gains and Beggar). I don't think it is more appealing to have a separate, explicitly bad card with an on buy +$1.

What if I made it 1VP?
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Vislor

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Re: Curse tokens
« Reply #34 on: December 07, 2014, 07:28:03 am »
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I could just get rid of these plague tokens and try something akin to "Confusion" from Donald X's original game.

INFECTION $0

It has no function or card type (other than INFECTION!). It is just there and will harm your hand by being there. You can obviously trash it or find cards in the set which will help you get rid of them/dish them out to others.


ETA: How about this idea?

Each player has an INFECTION mat. If the mat is empty, when they gain an INFECTION Card it goes onto their mat. If not, it goes into their discard pile. You have to trash the INFECTION card from your mat before you can trash one from anywhere else.

Taking this idea further...what if I made it so you could pay $1 any turn to move an INFECTION card from your hand or discard pile to your INFECTION mat? Then at the end of the game any INFECTION cards left on your mat count as -1VP.
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Vislor

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Re: Curse tokens
« Reply #35 on: December 08, 2014, 06:16:17 am »
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Or another idea for plague tokens if I decide to keep them:

You start with 5 each. You may pay $1 per token to pass as many as you would like to the left at the beginning of your turn. If you have more than 5 plague tokens you may not buy any victory cards that turn.

ETA: ACtually that would probably need to be scaled to the number of players. ie: 2 for 2 players, 3 for 3 players etc...
« Last Edit: December 08, 2014, 06:42:06 am by Vislor »
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Asper

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Re: Curse tokens
« Reply #36 on: December 08, 2014, 04:09:19 pm »
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It has been done several times before.

Among others, when looking for "Action Cards with -VP":
In case you want a version where the damage scales with how often you use it:

Action - 5$
+3 Cards
+1 Action
Each other player gets +1VP

And, more recently:
Billy Idol, 4$
3$
When you play this, each other player gets +1VP

For the more serious first one there was a short discussion on whether "Curse Tokens" giving -1VP were a better or worse approach than "each other player gets +1VP". They introduce new rules but also don't force uninvolved players to do stuff. Personally i side with giving positive VPs to others, as player interaction is fun and gives everyone something to do.

Edit: I see, the discussion has moved away from the Curse token thing. Ah well, never mind.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2014, 04:11:55 pm by Asper »
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eHalcyon

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Re: Curse tokens
« Reply #37 on: December 08, 2014, 05:04:48 pm »
+2

Vislor, you have tons of ideas that you are just tossing out one after another.  At this point, you should try actually play-testing them.  At the very least, you should think very carefully about your favourite ideas, considering how they would actually play out in a game.  What is the intention behind your design?  What interesting decisions are added to the game?  What negative impacts could there be? 

If you post ideas with more reasoning and consideration, you'll probably get better discussion and feedback.  Right now, it looks like you are asking about the first thing that comes to your mind, and the next thing, and the thing after that, looking for affirmation and trying something else as soon as anybody says something negative about it.  Probably nobody here is actually playtesting your ideas, so any negative feedback is speculative.  You should feel free to offer counterpoints about why something could work, and to test things out as well.

Regarding your most recent ideas:

I could just get rid of these plague tokens and try something akin to "Confusion" from Donald X's original game.

INFECTION $0

It has no function or card type (other than INFECTION!). It is just there and will harm your hand by being there. You can obviously trash it or find cards in the set which will help you get rid of them/dish them out to others.


ETA: How about this idea?

Each player has an INFECTION mat. If the mat is empty, when they gain an INFECTION Card it goes onto their mat. If not, it goes into their discard pile. You have to trash the INFECTION card from your mat before you can trash one from anywhere else.

Confusion was scrapped because it just doesn't add anything interesting to the game.  Curses are harmful junk.  Ruins are slightly less harmful junk which also have a few interesting interactions with cards due to their Action type and the diversity in the pile.  Confusion would just sit in the middle without adding anything new.

The idea with the mat still doesn't change it very much, and you don't explain how it's possible to trash a card that is stashed on the mat.  Is it a special mat that counts as part of your hand when you play Chapel or other trashers?  Do you need some new card that specifically lets you trash from the mat?  But again, this slight wrinkle just isn't that interesting.  It's still too similar to existing junk cards.

Taking this idea further...what if I made it so you could pay $1 any turn to move an INFECTION card from your hand or discard pile to your INFECTION mat? Then at the end of the game any INFECTION cards left on your mat count as -1VP.

Does this action use up your Buy, or is it an extra thing you can do?  I think that this may make the junk even less impactful.  It's quite common to underspend (e.g. have $6 but buy a $5 card) so it would not be difficult to come up with the money to quarantine your Infections, especially if you allow pulling them from the discard too.  The -1VP doesn't matter much compared to getting the card out of my deck -- I'm happy to trash Estates, after all.

Or another idea for plague tokens if I decide to keep them:

You start with 5 each. You may pay $1 per token to pass as many as you would like to the left at the beginning of your turn. If you have more than 5 plague tokens you may not buy any victory cards that turn.

ETA: ACtually that would probably need to be scaled to the number of players. ie: 2 for 2 players, 3 for 3 players etc...

The scaling issue will still be there if you have cards that distribute tokens.  Something like this might be interesting as a separate stand-alone mini-expansion that just adds this extra mechanic with no cards.

Though there may be other problems.  First, paying at the beginning of your turn just doesn't work.  Other than durations, you will have no money to spend at that time!

Also note that (assuming Plague tokens are still worth -1VP each) you are offering a 1:1 ratio of cost-to-VP, which is better than the ratio for any of the basic VP.  You could let the tokens build up and then pass all of them to the next player for a huge point swing on the turn you end the game.  The "can't buy VP cards" clause may force you to deal with them earlier, but there are often ways around it.  Various gainers (especially Remodel variants) would get past that restriction.
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Vislor

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Re: Curse tokens
« Reply #38 on: December 09, 2014, 05:48:07 am »
0

Thanks for the feedback....

Sorry I am just kind of spewing ideas into this thread for feedback. I will start playtesting soon, but am not in a position to just yet.


Re the paying of $1 to pass a plague token (it may need changed to $2), it could just happen during your buy phase instead of at the beginning of your turn (not using up an extra buy). Re the ways around the ban on buying victory cards, I could just make it a ban on gaining victory cards...but that may be too mean? The idea is you have to keep your infection in check, and not let it get too bad or else you have no chance to win! Also, it is something you can pass onto someone else! There would be ways to get rid of the plague tokens as well as pass them on. I could also experiment with the idea of remodelling a plague token into one of the other tokens?!!

Also, yes, if it was an INFECTION mat, the cards on the mat would be an extension of those in your hand and could be trashed with any trasher but would not add to your hand size.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 06:15:38 am by Vislor »
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Vislor

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Re: Curse tokens
« Reply #39 on: December 11, 2014, 05:19:35 am »
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I've figured out how to make Privy work!

Privy (minus $1) - VICTORY

-1VP. You may gain one Privy for free during your buy phase. If you do you get an extra $1 to spend during your buy phase. When you trash this you may trash another card from your hand or discard pile other than Privy.

Or do folk think it should be worth 0VP rather than -1VP?
« Last Edit: December 11, 2014, 05:58:28 am by Vislor »
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Vislor

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Re: Curse tokens
« Reply #40 on: December 12, 2014, 05:41:52 am »
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This is a bit of an odd one...does anyone think it's any good??!


Haemorrhage $4 - ACTION

Name an action, treasure or victory card. Reveal cards from the top of your deck and trash cards of the same type which are not the named card until you reveal the named card. Put that into your hand and discard the rest. If you did not put a card into your hand gain a plague token.
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Vislor

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Re: Curse tokens
« Reply #41 on: December 12, 2014, 05:57:44 am »
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Also, a new idea for Charity....there is a communal Charity mat:

Charity $5 - TREASURE ATTACK

$0. Each other player may discard a treasure or a coin token. If they do, place a coin token on the Charity mat. If they don't, they gain a plague token. You may spend up to half of the coin tokens on the Charity mat (rounded up).
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Asper

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Re: Curse tokens
« Reply #42 on: December 12, 2014, 07:49:48 am »
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I've figured out how to make Privy work!

Privy (minus $1) - VICTORY

-1VP. You may gain one Privy for free during your buy phase. If you do you get an extra $1 to spend during your buy phase. When you trash this you may trash another card from your hand or discard pile other than Privy.

Or do folk think it should be worth 0VP rather than -1VP?

You are still doing what eHalcyon said. Give us some time to answer. If you don't, people will get the impression that you are just steamrolling over their remarks, as there is never a real discussion about the points others bring in. This makes it very unsatisfying as you feel that everything you say becomes obsolete immediately.. Also if you change your mind immediately, it makes it feel like you didn't really think about what you posted in the first place.

I know this is hard when you are new to the forum and overflowing of ideas. I have been there. Just keep in mind that answers to fan cards are only very seldomly  "That's an amazing idea" and usually "But what about...". So don't be disappointed if people critizise your cards' problems instead of praising their qualities. Bettrr argue with us ;-)

For Privey i see that you excluded the possibility to gain unlimited amounts of them, which is important. I find the wording to be redundant with the price, though, especially as that price point contradicts cards like Bridge. And if you can do the effect with the on-buy concept of Hinterland, i would prefer it to a Duchess-like wording, which is harder to remember. How about:

Privey, 0$
effect
------
When you buy this and did not buy a Privey before this turn: +1buy, +1$
« Last Edit: December 12, 2014, 07:51:08 am by Asper »
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Vislor

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Re: Curse tokens
« Reply #43 on: December 12, 2014, 08:43:06 am »
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Sorry, I am grateful for all feedback and am reading everything from everybody, but don't always have a lot of time to reply to everyone unfortunately! I will endeavour to from now on.

Re Privy, sorry I forgot to say it was unavailable to be bought....I wanted to make it an extra Victory card like Colony but one which you may just gain during your buy phase so that you could get the extra $1 you might need for whatever reason...however at the cost of a -1VP VICTORY card in your deck! If they cost -1$ that makes it interesting with remodels and rebuilds etc...I also feel the trash ability is quite important to the card.


But you're right the -$1 might make it too complicated with cards like Salvager and Apprentice....
« Last Edit: December 12, 2014, 09:32:15 am by Vislor »
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faust

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Re: Curse tokens
« Reply #44 on: December 12, 2014, 09:16:24 am »
+1

I've figured out how to make Privy work!

Privy (minus $1) - VICTORY

-1VP. You may gain one Privy for free during your buy phase. If you do you get an extra $1 to spend during your buy phase. When you trash this you may trash another card from your hand or discard pile other than Privy.

Or do folk think it should be worth 0VP rather than -1VP?

I don't think you really need privy, you can just use an action card for the intended effect:

Privy $? - Action

+1 card
+2 buys
You may trash a card from your hand.
________________

While this is in play, when you gain a Curse, take a Coin token.

You could even make it a duration so it counters junkers.
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faust

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Re: Curse tokens
« Reply #45 on: December 12, 2014, 09:18:43 am »
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Sorry, I am grateful for all feedback and am reading everything from everybody, but don't always have a lot of time to reply to everyone unfortunately! I will endeavour to from now on.

Re Privy, sorry I forgot to say it was unavailable to be bought....I wanted to make it an extra Victory card like Colony but one which you may just gain during your buy phase so that you could get the extra $1 you might need for whatever reason...however at the cost of a -1VP VICTORY card in your deck! If they cost -1$ that makes it interesting with remodels and rebuilds etc...I also feel the trash ability is quite important to the card.

If you want it unavailable to buy, I suggest sticking to the established format of adding This is not in the supply. and make the cost $0*.
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