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[philosophyguy]

In this game, I tried to build a Wharf-based draw engine. But, I clearly did not manage to pull it off. I'd appreciate any advice for how I could have done better in this game.

Some comments on my thought process:

I opened Silver/Silver to maximize the odds of having a either two Wharfs, or a Wharf and a Walled Village by the end of the second shuffle. That worked out almost perfectly: I had a Wharf and Walled Village, with a second Wharf purchased on turn 5. I passed on Chapel because a) I've had problems with engines stalling from lack of money and wanted to get $ in my deck first; b) I thought I could get a Chapel later, if necessary. Since I was probably going to have spare actions from the Walled Villages, and large hand sizes, from the Wharfs, I thought I could be likely to get decent draws to trash in this particular setup.

Despite my efforts to not destroy my economy, I still didn't get enough money in the deck for multi-Colony turns. And, I don't know how much longer I could have delayed greening, given that my opponent was up 3 Colonies to 0 at turn 13.

[Fabian]

I haven't looked closely, but from your description and a very quick look at your decks, it seems to me like you probably did a fine job, it's just that your strategy (non-Chapel) was so much weaker than his strategy (Chapel), that the lead he predictabily got pretty much immediately forced you to try and catch up when your deck wasn't ready yet.

Silver/Chapel is the opening here I think, then start racing to a Platinum, and from there.. whatever, kinda.

[philosophyguy]

If Chapel is so much weaker in this context, how would you play the first 6 turns? The problem I've had with Chapel in these situations is that it eliminates my economy, so even if I'm drawing my whole deck I can't afford anything. How should I play to avoid that?

[Octo]

I'm no expert, but:

Turn 8 you have 1 Gold, 2 Silvers and 7 Coppers, but you've gone and bought 3 Whaves and 2 Walled villages (and still have your 3 estates). The other chap has got a 1 Gold, 2 Silvers, a Woodcutter (+2$ remember), a Walled Village and a Chapel, and has trashed all his coppers and estates. I would think you've overbought on actions there, and need more cash (that is working on the assumption that you're not going to go chapel - Chapel could well just simply be the best strat as Fabian said). You already have the +buys sorted, so more cash will increase your spending power more. The other guy is getting 9 per turn guaranteed from now on. You are not. I presume he'll just start nailing the platinums every turn now, while ditching his silvers.

I would say though that I think he's had some good luck with his Chapel as he's managed to trash 4 duff cards each time it's turned up, then finished off the last two when it next came round. I think having Chapelled away all the crap by turn 7 is pretty good going in my experience, but perhaps this is just normal for most people. He's carefully left himself with the six needed for the gold then platinum too.

Turn 9 Rainerd simply bags a platinum, buy you can only muster a Gold.

Turn 10 Rainerd gets a Colony (a touch early for my tastes, but again, I'm no expert), however you play all 3(!) wharves, yet still can only afford a gold.

Turn 11 A good turn for you, but should've been 2 plats really, though you fell short. Rainerd, unafraid of stalling just bags another colony

Turn 12 A total dud for you, but same for Rainerd too really.

Turn 13 Another dud for you, even though you played a Wharf, Rainerd is back on the Colonies. You have 1 Plat, 3 Golds, 2 Silvers, 7 Coppers, 4 Wharves, 3 Walled Villages, 1 Scheme, 3 Estates and... a Mandarin...? Rainerd has 1 Plat, 1 Gold, 2 Silvers, 3 Colonies, Wharf, Woodcutter, Chapel, Walled Village, Scheme. Personally  I think Rainerd should've got one more Plat before going for colonies, but perhaps he was thinking "if I'm short, I'll get a Plat then", sometimes it works like that sometimes not. The Scheme is just for cycling, as is the WV, but the 3 terminals are a bit of a risk (IMO). You have lots of villages and draw, but that kind of engine can still stall hard, as you found out. Also, the Wharves can miss shuffles due to being a duration card. You have significantly more money than Rainerd, but he has a much better chance of getting it....well, perhaps not that much better now he was 3 colonies, but that's a pretty good reason.

Turn 14+ Your engine finally starts kicking in, but it's just a bit too late.

Personally I would've concentrated more on money with your strat. One Wharf - great. Leave the Walled Village, get a Silver. Getting 5 on Turn 5 is tricky of course, but then I think a Stables could've been a good choice instead of the Wharf as you still had your coppers in there. Another Silver on Turn 6, then Turn 7 would be different from what is there - 4 silvers, Wharf and Stables would get you up to Gold often. Turn 8 should've been a platinum for me in any case. 2 buys is good, but Plat is better.

Dunno, that's my thoughts. Don't worry so much about getting double colonies. Just get singles really fast, like the other guy. That's how I usually do it.

Edit - added a bit about chapel maybe just being the better strat in general.

[DrHades]

If Chapel is so much weaker in this context, how would you play the first 6 turns? The problem I've had with Chapel in these situations is that it eliminates my economy, so even if I'm drawing my whole deck I can't afford anything. How should I play to avoid that?

I would play it like this:

1, 2 - Silver/Chapel
3, 4 - buying at least a Silver (better is Wharf of course), trashing as much as I can (even 4 Coppers). Only exception - with Chpel, Silver, Copper, X, X, I would spare that copper and buy another silver. If Chapel comes in turn 5, well, that's a pity.

Then I would get rid of another C and E, buying Silvers until I have 3 (maybe 4 if I don't have Wharf), with 5$ taking Wharf or 2, maybe even grab a WV if the timing is right. At 6$ buying Gold of course.

When I have 2 Golds, slowly trashing Silvers and getting more Golds and Platinums. After 2 Platinums, going for Colonies.

Something like this (Salvager helped a lot here, but I think it is a nice example - note that at turn 5 I can buy another Silver if I don't trash my Copper, but I decided I don't need another Silver and it was definitely a good call) - http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20111216-122753-21cc7d96.html

But I am not an expert, so you should probably wait until someone better tells you how to play with Chapel (I will gladly read it too and learn a new trick or two  )

[Kore]

Wharf/Walled Village isn't a particularly strong combo to begin with. I've played around with it a bit in the simulator and I can't get it to consistently beat Wharf + BM in a province game. You're better off simply buying 2-3 wharves and going for money than trying to go for a village/wharf combo. You loose too much tempo in your initial village buys and by the time you're ready for your megaturns, the wharf + money player has already got his 4 Provinces.

Wharf + Fishing Village or Wharf + Border Village is another story. Those are much stronger combinations and should consistently beat wharf + money.

[Epoch]

I think that this is actually a game for you to go Thief.  He has a very slim deck highly reliant on his Plat + 2 Gold -- losing any of those would really hurt him and really help you.  And you have a draw engine that should let you play Thief fairly reliably.

[DG]

I haven't simulated this but here's a few thoughts to consider

- A well timed thief might have been excellent although difficult to manage
- Take drawing cards over gold until you can draw nearly all your of your deck.
- A mix of stables and wharves could work here since this would reduce the number of villages you needed. Maybe a vault too.
- A mid game chapel could work after you've got the acceleration from the wharf
- The mandarin wasn't worth it to put coppers on your deck. Take a vault.

[philosophyguy]

Ok, I played some solitaire games and it seems like Chapel does work as well as Fabian suggested. The key is to buy an extra Silver in the second shuffle (DrHades' suggestion to buy a Silver with Chapel-S-C-X-X rather than Chapeling 4 cards seems to play well) and to hold off on the Walled Villages until the deck has a couple of Wharfs. A terminal collision isn't as much a problem early on if you Chapelled some of the starting cards during turns 3-5, because the larger hand from the Wharf's duration effect will usually give you another chance at the terminal.

Also, it seems better to go for an early Gold with $6 over an extra Wharf, because the extra buying power allows you to catch up on Wharfs easier.

I was pretty consistently able to hit 3 Colony turns by turn 15ish, which seems to be a respectable pace.

[Geronimoo]

I played around with the simulator a bit and this is what I found:

• Open Chapel/Silver
• Get a Wharf ASAP
• Stop buying Silvers when you have some Golds, stop buying Golds when you have some Platina
• Make sure you have a few Wharves before going for the Walled Villages (don't worry about them colliding)
• Buy Platinums until you can buy 2 Colonies in one turn

This strategy averages 4 Colonies in <15 turns.

Here's the bot if you want to see it in action:

Code: [Select]

<player name="Wharf engine" author="Geronimoo" description="Aim for double Colony!">
 <type name="Bot"/>
 <type name="Optimized"/>
 <type name="UserCreated"/>
 <type name="BigMoney"/>
 <type name="Province"/>
 <type name="TwoPlayer"/>
 <type name="SingleCard"/>
   <buy name="Colony">
      <condition>
         <left type="countAvailableMoney"/>
         <operator type="greaterOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="22.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Colony">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Colony"/>
         <operator type="greaterThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="0.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Province">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Colony"/>
         <operator type="greaterThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="0.0"/>
      </condition>
      <condition>
         <left type="gainsNeededToEndGame"/>
         <operator type="smallerOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="5.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Duchy">
      <condition>
         <left type="gainsNeededToEndGame"/>
         <operator type="smallerOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="3.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Estate">
      <condition>
         <left type="gainsNeededToEndGame"/>
         <operator type="smallerOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="2.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Platinum"/>
   <buy name="Wharf">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Wharf"/>
         <operator type="equalTo" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="0.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Gold">
      <condition>
         <left type="getTotalMoney"/>
         <operator type="smallerThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="14.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Wharf">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardTypeInDeck" attribute="Terminal"/>
         <operator type="smallerOrEqualThan" />
         <right type="countCardTypeInDeck" attribute="Village"/>
         <extra_operation type="plus" attribute="2.0" />
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Walled_Village">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Wharf"/>
         <operator type="greaterThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="0.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Chapel">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Chapel"/>
         <operator type="equalTo" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="0.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Silver">
      <condition>
         <left type="getTotalMoney"/>
         <operator type="smallerThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="10.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
</player>