Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 [2]  All

Author Topic: Highest number of forced decisions in a row  (Read 13079 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Deadlock39

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1722
  • Respect: +1758
    • View Profile
Re: Highest number of forced decisions in a row
« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2015, 09:32:40 am »
0

The Procession chain is interesting, but I'm not sure it can improve my current solution because it needs a pile of 5 costs to forcibly gain, which is used by the Upgrade/Catacombs/Rats sequence, which contains about 2/3 of the forced actions.

Herald is something I did not consider, and could probably be used to good effect.  The solution can probably be refactored to gain the Squires instead of Moats since I thought of using Familiars with them. The Wharf gains can be changed to Apprentice because it is a useful force card that could be used with Herald (which can replace Moat). 

I didn't actually worry about how to actually gain things out of the supply.  I suspect it can be done with out Kings Court, which means the chain could be started with one Kings Court from the Black Market deck, freeing up that spot.  I'll sanity check that at some point.  The question is what to do with that card slot because I think Procession conflicts with the other chain as previously mentioned.

You could at least Procession the Kick Off King's Court to force a Province gain at the end, so there is one more.

Simon (DK)

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 347
  • Shuffle iT Username: Sirusc
  • Respect: +218
    • View Profile
Re: Highest number of forced decisions in a row
« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2015, 09:52:49 am »
0

You could at least Procession the Kick Off King's Court to force a Province gain at the end, so there is one more.

The Procession gain has to be an action card. This can be done with adding Prince to the Kingdom, but the question then is if it's worth it to put Prince in the kingdom for 1 forced action.
Logged

Deadlock39

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1722
  • Respect: +1758
    • View Profile
Re: Highest number of forced decisions in a row
« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2015, 10:04:36 am »
0

Whoops, yeah, that is probably not worth a Kingdom slot.

ThaddeusB

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 133
  • Respect: +140
    • View Profile
Re: Highest number of forced decisions in a row
« Reply #28 on: February 03, 2015, 01:06:52 pm »
0

Do you count forced decisions made by either player? If so, it might be possible to get higher with attacks that have forced decisions: Rabble flips 2/3 treasures/actions, Rogue/Knight flips 2 cards, but only one is 3-6, Saboteur hits a 3 cost card w/ no Curses left. I'm not quite sure about Young Witch: in the vein of forced choice, you may reveal the Bane, but you can't, so you have to choose not to. But you could make the same argument for things like Moat and Watchtower: I could have revealed them, if I had them in my hand. Young Witch does specify the choice on the Attack card though, so I think that makes the difference.

Solution attempt:
KC/TR/BoM for 21 TR plays on stack, Rabble only action in hand.
9 times: TR Rabble, drawing 5 non-actions and Rabble, revealing all treasures/actions
TR Rabble, drawing 5 non-actions and Herald, revealing all treasures/actions
5 times: TR Herald, drawing a non-action and another Herald, revealing and playing 2 Saboteurs, hitting two Silvers with no Curses/Poor House in supply
3 times: TR Herald, drawing a non-action and another Herald, revealing and playing 2 Rogues, hitting only one 3-5 lcost, and then forced to choose it to gain
TR Herald, drawing a non-action and Sir Destry, revealing and playing 2 Rogues, hitting only one 3-5 cost, and then forced to choose it to gain
TR Sir Destry, drawing 3 non-actions and Sir Martin, hitting only one 3-5 cost twice
TR Sir Martin, hitting only one 3-5 cost twice

21 TR choices + 20 Rabble choices + 10 Saboteur choices + 8 Rogue choices + 2 Sir Destry choices + 2 Sir MartinN choices = 63 forced choices in a row. Probably can be improved to somehow include the other solutions without attacks, or used to improve them.

The gain from Saboteur is optional ( ie you can gain nothing), so to be forced there would have to be no valid targets ( ie copper and curse out )
Logged

Deadlock39

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1722
  • Respect: +1758
    • View Profile
Re: Highest number of forced decisions in a row
« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2015, 02:16:34 pm »
0

After thinking about it a little bit, I don't think Heralds have significant utility.  You can be forced to play a Herald from a Throne room, and it can play another action, but that action isn't a forced decision because there is no choice with Herald.  It could allow you to force two different actions off of a Throne Room instead of playing one twice, which might have some utility.  There is also one trick I thought of that could make a minor improvement since it can insert a card draw between the Throne play and the action play. (e.g. Throne Herald to draw a Squire and then reveal and play Apprentice. which isn't possible directly from the Throne because it would have two targets.)

I suspect the opponent decisions may not be able to improve my current solution.  All of the options give 3 Forced decisions from a play (forced to Throne the action, then one forced decision per play of that action). In its current form, my solution forces at least 3 decisions per Throne play.

ephesos

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 347
  • Shuffle iT Username: Ephesos
  • Respect: +291
    • View Profile
Re: Highest number of forced decisions in a row
« Reply #30 on: February 03, 2015, 11:33:08 pm »
0

It might be possible to get extra forced decisions by gaining Border Village instead of Gold, forcing a gain of a lower cost card. Perhaps upgrade Catacombs into the last <5 cost, then force a Border Village gain of a 5 cost.
Also, is it a forced decision to gain nothing, if no eligible cards remain in the Supply? E.g. TR an Upgrade, trashing Catacombs, gaining a card w/ cost <5 (last Moat), gaining a 6 cost card(Border Village), gaining a card with cost <6(no cards left to gain)
If so, just gain a Border Village in place of each Gold in the solution(start with no Gold left of course), and you have 10 extra forced choices. You'll have to remove Moat and Wharf from the kingdom, to prevent a choice between them; just gain nothing when Upgrading Rats/Catacombs.
Logged

ephesos

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 347
  • Shuffle iT Username: Ephesos
  • Respect: +291
    • View Profile
Re: Highest number of forced decisions in a row
« Reply #31 on: February 03, 2015, 11:38:30 pm »
0

Also, by getting rid of Moat, your last BoM play is forced to be Throne Room, since it is the only action less than 5 left in the Supply. Since you never play Moat, you may as well make it Fool's Gold or any other Treasure costing less than 5, if you insist on gaining something.

Maybe consider throwing in a Develop? Similar to Stonemason in forcing 2 gains, but the costs are now specified as X-1/X+1, so it's ironically less restrictive in how many can be left in the rest of the piles. They go to the top of your deck though, and that might not be good if you can't use them.

Add to the list of attacks Noble Brigand hitting only one Silver/Gold. About the same as a Knight though.
Also, Mountebank with no Curse in hand, similar to Young Witch.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2015, 11:46:47 pm by ephesos »
Logged

Simon (DK)

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 347
  • Shuffle iT Username: Sirusc
  • Respect: +218
    • View Profile
Re: Highest number of forced decisions in a row
« Reply #32 on: February 04, 2015, 02:50:31 am »
0

My intention with the definition of forced decision was that it had to be one of the possibilities the text on the card gave you. I'm not sure if I can just change it to "1 of the possibilities" instead of "1 possibility". If it has to be one of the possibilities the text gave you, then gaining nothing from a text instructing you to gain doesn't count.

Develop doesn't work, because it gives you a choice of which order to gain the cards in, and there's no way to get around that choice.
Logged

Simon (DK)

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 347
  • Shuffle iT Username: Sirusc
  • Respect: +218
    • View Profile
Re: Highest number of forced decisions in a row
« Reply #33 on: February 04, 2015, 03:05:06 am »
0

What if you're using Silver instead of Moat and Border Village instead of Gold. Wouldn't that give 10 extra forced decisions?
Logged

Deadlock39

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1722
  • Respect: +1758
    • View Profile
Re: Highest number of forced decisions in a row
« Reply #34 on: February 04, 2015, 10:57:26 am »
0

Unless there is another way to re-prime the loop, I don't think I can gain Border Villages.  After Upgrading the Catacombs, the second Throne play Upgrades a Rats into a $5 to draw the next Upgrade so that play can continue.  I could remove the $5 pile to only have one option from Border Village, but that just replaces a forced Rats Upgrade with a forced Border Village gain, so I think the total would be the same.  It eliminates the pile of $5s, but I don't think it frees up a pile because I could just replace Moats with Silver to free up a pile without other changes.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2015, 11:01:24 am by Deadlock39 »
Logged

ephesos

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 347
  • Shuffle iT Username: Ephesos
  • Respect: +291
    • View Profile
Re: Highest number of forced decisions in a row
« Reply #35 on: February 06, 2015, 01:26:34 am »
0

If you started things off with a 10x Procession chain to King's Court, at the end, you're forced to gain an 8 cost and 9 5 costs. If the forced decision thing means you have to do something stated on the card, then I guess you'd have to find some way around Upgrade/Rats, which probably wouldn't be worth it.

However, if you're allowing for decisions that can't do what they say on the card(they can be in the solution, they just don't count towards the total), then you could do an interwoven King's Court Procession chain, forcing 10 8 cost Action gains at the end. 10 choices is probably worth the kingdom slot for Prince, though I don't know how difficult gaining all these cards becomes with that restriction on the chain.
Logged

Ozle

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3625
  • Sorry, this text is personal.
  • Respect: +3360
    • View Profile
Re: Highest number of forced decisions in a row
« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2015, 10:36:06 am »
+2

Im going to go with 6
Logged
Try the Ozle Google Map Challenge!
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7466.0

Sullying players Enjoyment of Innovation since 2013 Apparently!

Joseph2302

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 858
  • Shuffle iT Username: Joseph2302
  • "Better to be lucky than good"
  • Respect: +576
    • View Profile
Re: Highest number of forced decisions in a row
« Reply #37 on: February 06, 2015, 10:38:30 am »
+1

How about Moat?
Logged
Mafia Stats: (correct as of 2017)
Town: 22 games, 8 wins
Scum: 5 games, 3 wins
Pages: 1 [2]  All
 

Page created in 0.105 seconds with 21 queries.