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[eHalcyon]

A somewhat interesting point:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/02/opinion/beale-star-wars/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

I don't exactly share his views, but he does have a point that Star Wars misrepresents Sci-Fi.  Though, the author loses a lot of authority for saying The Matrix is "the most original sci-fi movie of the past 25 years".  Well Matrix was original, but did this guy never heard of Primer?  Moon?

This editorial seems analogous to criticizing Lord of the Rings for misrepresenting historical fiction. It's not like people are somehow tricked into thinking that Star Wars is serious speculation about the future.

Hmm.. that wasn't what I got from it.  I read it more as people saw Star Wars and thought Sci Fi was big operas and explosions, when really it's about exploring deep issues of our humanity.

The problem isn't Star Wars misrepresenting sci-fi.  The problem is people misclassifying Star Wars as sci-fi.  It's fantasy.

[Witherweaver]

A somewhat interesting point:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/02/opinion/beale-star-wars/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

I don't exactly share his views, but he does have a point that Star Wars misrepresents Sci-Fi.  Though, the author loses a lot of authority for saying The Matrix is "the most original sci-fi movie of the past 25 years".  Well Matrix was original, but did this guy never heard of Primer?  Moon?

This editorial seems analogous to criticizing Lord of the Rings for misrepresenting historical fiction. It's not like people are somehow tricked into thinking that Star Wars is serious speculation about the future.

Hmm.. that wasn't what I got from it.  I read it more as people saw Star Wars and thought Sci Fi was big operas and explosions, when really it's about exploring deep issues of our humanity.

The problem isn't Star Wars misrepresenting sci-fi.  The problem is people misclassifying Star Wars as sci-fi.  It's fantasy.

That's a good point.

[Ozle]

Nope, its definitely Science Fiction

"fiction based on imagined future scientific or technological advances and major social or environmental changes, frequently portraying space or time travel and life on other planets."

Just because its not the dark gritty moralistic style of Sci Fi....I like to think of it as High Science Fiction, in the same way people like David Gemmel are High Fantasy

[sudgy]

The creator of the illustration was clearly following rule 0 of memogenesis: make sure to include a triviel mistake for people to point out.

trivial*

Now that I have explained qmech's joke, it is funny.

[eHalcyon]

Nope, its definitely Science Fiction

"fiction based on imagined future scientific or technological advances and major social or environmental changes, frequently portraying space or time travel and life on other planets."

Just because its not the dark gritty moralistic style of Sci Fi....I like to think of it as High Science Fiction, in the same way people like David Gemmel are High Fantasy

Star Wars features The Force, which is basically magic.  They "explain" it later with midichlorians and whatnot, but really, it's still magic.  IMO, that puts it squarely outside the realm of science fiction and firmly in the realm of fantasy.  It's fantasy in space with some technological trappings, but still fantasy.

[pacovf]

Not sure if that is a good argument. Lots of science fiction feature some sort of psyonics. Or sufficiently advanced alien technology (=magic).

Not like I disagree with your final conclusion, though.

[Witherweaver]

You could use that to argue that Dune is fantasy, though I consider it pretty Sci Fi.  I guess it intersects both.

[eHalcyon]

The Star Wars plot also features far more fantasy tropes than sci-fi tropes.

Call it Science Fantasy if you wish?

[Jorbles]

Can't it be both?

[Ozle]

Nope, its definitely Science Fiction

"fiction based on imagined future scientific or technological advances and major social or environmental changes, frequently portraying space or time travel and life on other planets."

Just because its not the dark gritty moralistic style of Sci Fi....I like to think of it as High Science Fiction, in the same way people like David Gemmel are High Fantasy

Star Wars features The Force, which is basically magic.  They "explain" it later with midichlorians and whatnot, but really, it's still magic.  IMO, that puts it squarely outside the realm of science fiction and firmly in the realm of fantasy.  It's fantasy in space with some technological trappings, but still fantasy.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

Can't argue with Arthur C Clarke! Well, you can, but he would send one of Asimovs robots over to kill you...

[Ozle]

Can't it be both?

Who are you??! George Lucas!?

[eHalcyon]

Nope, its definitely Science Fiction

"fiction based on imagined future scientific or technological advances and major social or environmental changes, frequently portraying space or time travel and life on other planets."

Just because its not the dark gritty moralistic style of Sci Fi....I like to think of it as High Science Fiction, in the same way people like David Gemmel are High Fantasy

Star Wars features The Force, which is basically magic.  They "explain" it later with midichlorians and whatnot, but really, it's still magic.  IMO, that puts it squarely outside the realm of science fiction and firmly in the realm of fantasy.  It's fantasy in space with some technological trappings, but still fantasy.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

Can't argue with Arthur C Clarke! Well, you can, but he would send one of Asimovs robots over to kill you...

Sure, but the Force isn't technology.

[Jorbles]

Can't it be both?

Who are you??! George Lucas!?

:_( I have been found out.

No, but seriously there's no reason because a piece of work draws mostly from the ideas of one genre that it can't draw on the tropes of another, they don't have to be considered mutually exclusive.

[Beyond Awesome]

George Lucas himself said he sees Star Wars as fantasy. The whole A long Time Ago... is supposed to be a nod to fairytales saying Once Upon a Time... Lucas created Star Wars around the idea of the Hero's Journey which is a common motif in myth's.

Anyway, long story short, Star Wars is fantasy with sci fi elements.

[Kirian]

Nope, its definitely Science Fiction

"fiction based on imagined future scientific or technological advances and major social or environmental changes, frequently portraying space or time travel and life on other planets."

Just because its not the dark gritty moralistic style of Sci Fi....I like to think of it as High Science Fiction, in the same way people like David Gemmel are High Fantasy

Star Wars features The Force, which is basically magic.  They "explain" it later with midichlorians and whatnot, but really, it's still magic.  IMO, that puts it squarely outside the realm of science fiction and firmly in the realm of fantasy.  It's fantasy in space with some technological trappings, but still fantasy.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

Can't argue with Arthur C Clarke! Well, you can, but he would send one of Asimovs robots over to kill you...

Actually, I imagine an argument with Clarke would be rather boring.

Ozle: "I'd like to argue about the intersection of technology and magic!"
Clarke: <decomposes slowly>

[blueblimp]

Although it's maybe a bit pointless to argue exactly what genre label Star Wars should have, here's some misc evidence from the internet:

IMDB: Action Adventure Fantasy
Google "star wars genre" (dunno where it gets its data from): Fantasy, Adventure Film, Science Fiction, Action Film
Wikipedia: "epic space opera", where "space opera" is defined as "a subgenre of science fiction"
Wookieepedia, "the Star Wars Wiki": "a science fiction franchise"

I'd argue based off this that it's more common to call Star Wars "science fiction" than to say that it isn't.

[eHalcyon]

I don't think that hurts my point at all.  I agree that it is more common to call Star Wars "sci-fi", but I'm saying that doing so is inaccurate.  The earlier linked article suggests that Star Wars hurts the sci-fi genre by making people think that sci-fi is all about laser gun fights and explosions and big bad villains, whereas the best sci-fi is "essentially about ideas, not action", touching on larger themes of the human condition, and so on and so forth.  I'm saying that there isn't even a comparison because Star Wars isn't really sci-fi, even though most people think of it as such.  The problem isn't that Star Wars misrepresents the depths of sci-fi, as the article posits, but that people like to classify Star Wars as sci-fi when it shouldn't be.

[Davio]

This whole discussion is pretty sci-fi.

[Lekkit]

I think Star Wars is Sci-Fi. I don't think it's only Sci-Fi. And I don't think it's the definition of Sci-Fi. But definately Sci-Fi.

[Asper]

I think it's a matter of definitions. Would "Lord of the rings IN SPACE" be science fiction or fantasy?

[Lekkit]

Why can't it be both?

[Asper]

Why can't it be both?

I'm neither saying that nor the opposite. Are they mutually exclusive? Dunno.

[Witherweaver]

I think it's a matter of definitions. Would "Lord of the rings IN SPACE" be science fiction or fantasy?

LORD OF THE SPACE RINGS!

[WalrusMcFishSr]

Star Wars Episode VIII: R2-D2 has a Crisis of Identity in a Society where Sentient Robots are Treated as Subservients

[pacovf]

I think it's a matter of definitions. Would "Lord of the rings IN SPACE" be science fiction or fantasy?

It would be awesome.