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[JW]

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Embargo, Ambassador, Fishing Village, Scheme, Armory, Gardens, Quarry, Duke, Vault, Venture
Provinces/Estates. I played this kingdom with three players. I’m curious how people would play it in both 2 and 3 player games.

In the game I played, I fought the Ambassador war with another player while the third player picked up Fishing Villages, Armories, a Vault, 2 Golds and then Gardens with a province or two from Vault/Gold hands. The Gardens player had 6 point gardens by the time the game three-piled on Estates, Schemes, and Armories. The other Ambassador player and I had no chance towards the later stages.

If only one player buys Ambassador (in a two or three player game), the Ambassador player can get a thin deck with 2 Ambassadors and give out all 10 curses. However, that can help a Gardens strategy. While Armory is a poor Gardens enabler, it guarantees a gardens if drawn and gets around Embargo. Additionally, the engine only picks up VP slowly because of no +buy.

I was before the Gardens player in turn order so once Estates ran out I needed to return 2 estates to give one to the other Ambassador player. That isn't a factor you need to consider in two player.

Does Duke have a role? Thoughts appreciated.

[eHalcyon]

Lack of +Buy, Vault as only draw and Armory as the only way to gain multiple cards per turn (unless you count buying from Embargo'd piles) shifts me away from an engine.  Gardens, Duke and Ambassador suggest a sloggy game to me, though Ambassador seems less useful anyway because you don't need a thin deck and the incoming junk doesn't hurt so much with the alt VP.

I'm not sure whether it's better to go for Gardens or Duke.  Gardens may have an edge if anybody decides to go for Ambassador.  I think Embargo would hurt Duke/Duchy more, though Vault would help fight through that.  And would the Gardens player really want to waste a buy on a card that trashes itself?

It might depend a lot on who goes for what.  If everybody goes for alt VP, what happens?  If everybody goes for the same alt VP, it's just a matter of who wins the split.  If two go for Gardens and one for Duke/Duchy, the game could end very quickly, before Gardens are worth more than 3VP, which would favour the Duke player. 

If two go for Duke/Duchy and one for Gardens... um, my intuition is that Duke/Duchy still works out better.  If it's an even split on Duchies, Dukes are still worth 6VP each.  I don't think Armory is enough support for Gardens to outpace that.  It would be even more difficult for the Gardens player if the Duchy split wasn't even, because the winner of the split would have even better Dukes.

So... Duchy/Duke race?  Maybe with an early Vault or Armory to get top-decked Silvers?

With only two players, I think I still favour Duchy/Duke.  Incoming Copper doesn't hurt much, Gardens has little support.  If Duchy or Duke gets Embargo'd, it's not to tough to fight through it with Vault or to switch over to Gardens right after.

[soulnet]

I would open Armory/FV, and gain Armories and FVs for a while. If both opponents go the Duchy-route, just gain and topdeck Embargo and double-Embargo Duchy, which they cannot gain through Armory. Armory gaining other Armories is pretty good for ensuring you always have some at hand, and FV is pretty good at giving money and avoiding too many awful collisions. The -10 VP from Curses do Matter, and using Vault for Duchy-Duke is SO slow, especially against Embargo'ed Duchies, that I don't see it working.

Also, Gardens is more resilient to strategic Ambassadoring (for instance, a Gardens player against Duchy/Duke player can use Amb as a junker without returning anything, both annoying the other players and accelerating the piling of Estates and/or Curses greatly).

Pretty interesting and difficult kingdom.

[eHalcyon]

I would open Armory/FV, and gain Armories and FVs for a while. If both opponents go the Duchy-route, just gain and topdeck Embargo and double-Embargo Duchy, which they cannot gain through Armory. Armory gaining other Armories is pretty good for ensuring you always have some at hand, and FV is pretty good at giving money and avoiding too many awful collisions. The -10 VP from Curses do Matter, and using Vault for Duchy-Duke is SO slow, especially against Embargo'ed Duchies, that I don't see it working.

Also, Gardens is more resilient to strategic Ambassadoring (for instance, a Gardens player against Duchy/Duke player can use Amb as a junker without returning anything, both annoying the other players and accelerating the piling of Estates and/or Curses greatly).

Pretty interesting and difficult kingdom.

Hmm, how long is "for a while"?  I think Armory allows the Duke player to start hitting Duchies pretty early.  If Duchy gets double-embargo'd, he could switch to Gardens without much issue and those Duchy points could make the difference.

[DG]

Three player is fishing village-armoury-gardens. Two player is probably a single ambassador start but moving very quickly into a vault based deck. Embargoes will obviously change things but Duchy/Duke looks like the prime embargo target no matter how you look at it.