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[markusin]

You know, that Shrinkmeister is going to change everything. Up until now, the 4-attack minions have been sacred due to being out of range of the Priest's spells. But now, they're going to be the biggest liability. Shrinkmeister->Cabal Shadowpriest can now steal big cards like Cairne and Ysera. This extra trick should make Priest significantly more threatening in control vs. control matchups.

[HiveMindEmulator]

divine favor and jeeves should do what their text says and automatically kill fatigue people.

Yeah, it's not like the case is going to come up often, so why not just implement it correctly so that when it does come up, people know what's going to happen.

The way it is is much easier to implement without fear of weird bugs, since it involves no loops. It just draws max((3-#cards in hand),0) cards. The card text should say this though; the wording on the card is the confusing part. I guess the problem is there is no convenient wording for it.

You know, that Shrinkmeister is going to change everything. Up until now, the 4-attack minions have been sacred due to being out of range of the Priest's spells. But now, they're going to be the biggest liability. Shrinkmeister->Cabal Shadowpriest can now steal big cards like Cairne and Ysera. This extra trick should make Priest significantly more threatening in control vs. control matchups.

Note that it does take 8 mana to play the combo, so it's not an immediate answer to 4-attack minions played on curve, other than Ysera.

[KingZog3]

Of course you run 2 shrinkmeisters. But Priest is going to be so reactive if you load your deck up with cards that all rquire specific situations. It's already a pretty reactive class.

[blueblimp]

divine favor and jeeves should do what their text says and automatically kill fatigue people.

Yeah, it's not like the case is going to come up often, so why not just implement it correctly so that when it does come up, people know what's going to happen.

The way it is is much easier to implement without fear of weird bugs, since it involves no loops. It just draws max((3-#cards in hand),0) cards. The card text should say this though; the wording on the card is the confusing part. I guess the problem is there is no convenient wording for it.

Eh, while nothing is easy in software engineering, I assume they have automated tests for the game engine in isolation to prevent regressions when they make rule changes, so preventing an infinite loop bug there is a matter of adding a test for that specific situation, and then you're covered forever. It'd be harder to write if there were RNG involved, but in this case it's fully deterministic so it should be straightforward.

I think it's more likely that they coded it without thinking of the fatigue case, and don't want to bother to go back to fix it since they don't put high priority on making their rules consistent. That may be the right choice (since coding new cards is likely a better use of time than fixing edge cases of old ones) even though it's a bit annoying.

[popsofctown]

Using awkward wording is less awkward than using smooth wording that is not accurately reflected by your game's actual mechanics.  When they realized the edge case they should have reworded divine favor to "Draw cards equal to the difference the number of cards in your hands and the number of cards in your opponent's hand" and Jeeves to whatever.

[Kirian]

divine favor and jeeves should do what their text says and automatically kill fatigue people.

Yeah, it's not like the case is going to come up often, so why not just implement it correctly so that when it does come up, people know what's going to happen.

The way it is is much easier to implement without fear of weird bugs, since it involves no loops. It just draws max((3-#cards in hand),0) cards. The card text should say this though; the wording on the card is the confusing part. I guess the problem is there is no convenient wording for it.

You know, that Shrinkmeister is going to change everything. Up until now, the 4-attack minions have been sacred due to being out of range of the Priest's spells. But now, they're going to be the biggest liability. Shrinkmeister->Cabal Shadowpriest can now steal big cards like Cairne and Ysera. This extra trick should make Priest significantly more threatening in control vs. control matchups.

Note that it does take 8 mana to play the combo, so it's not an immediate answer to 4-attack minions played on curve, other than Ysera.

OTOH, if all you care about is destroying (rather than stealing), Shrinkmeister/SWPain is only 4 mana.  4 mana and 2 cards to kill Yeti/Drake/Auctioneer while still leaving a 3/2 on the board is quite nice.  Not as awesome against Cairne though.

[markusin]

You know, I was just thinking if there would ever be a minion that did some damage to adjacent enemy minions when attacking. Lo and behold:
http://m.ca.ign.com/articles/2014/11/17/revealing-a-brand-new-hearthstone-legendary

8 Mana 6/9
Also damages the minions next to however he attacks.

I think it's base stats are good enough that it might see use. It also makes positioning really important.

I like it's art. It looks like a super Harvest Golem. Speaking of which, Harvest Golem will get the mech type, so I expect it won't lose any popularity.

[popsofctown]

It's hard to expect an 8 cost minion that doesn't act immediately like Rag to see play.

Gruul has nice stats too, but he doesn't see the light of day.

[markusin]

You know, that Shrinkmeister is going to change everything. Up until now, the 4-attack minions have been sacred due to being out of range of the Priest's spells. But now, they're going to be the biggest liability. Shrinkmeister->Cabal Shadowpriest can now steal big cards like Cairne and Ysera. This extra trick should make Priest significantly more threatening in control vs. control matchups.

Note that it does take 8 mana to play the combo, so it's not an immediate answer to 4-attack minions played on curve, other than Ysera.

OTOH, if all you care about is destroying (rather than stealing), Shrinkmeister/SWPain is only 4 mana.  4 mana and 2 cards to kill Yeti/Drake/Auctioneer while still leaving a 3/2 on the board is quite nice.  Not as awesome against Cairne though.

Also of note is Shrinkmeister + Shadow Madness stealing Sylvanas. Same 6 mana cost, but has potential to totally flip the board momentum.

[Kirian]

It's hard to expect an 8 cost minion that doesn't act immediately like Rag to see play.

Gruul has nice stats too, but he doesn't see the light of day.

Ysera?

[KingZog3]

It's hard to expect an 8 cost minion that doesn't act immediately like Rag to see play.

Gruul has nice stats too, but he doesn't see the light of day.

Ysera?

Ysera gives you a card that turn. Not immediate effect, but you always get a card out of playing her. Foe Reaper 4000 might just get hexed as soon as you play it.

[markusin]

It's hard to expect an 8 cost minion that doesn't act immediately like Rag to see play.

Gruul has nice stats too, but he doesn't see the light of day.

Ysera?

You mean like a counter to Ysera. Ysera still gives you a card on the turn it's played, and has 12 health.

But Malygos drives home the point. You just can't allow that dragon to stay alive when played by a Rogue.

This new legendary can help clean up Kel'Thuzad's army, and it's something else that can pop up from Sneed's Old Shredder. But of course Sneed has the same problem brought up about 8 mana minions.

8+ mana minions that aren't game winners aren't looked upon highly in constructed. Still, the effect of this legendary is really strong if it gets off an attack.

[markusin]

It's hard to expect an 8 cost minion that doesn't act immediately like Rag to see play.

Gruul has nice stats too, but he doesn't see the light of day.

Ysera?

Ysera gives you a card that turn. Not immediate effect, but you always get a card out of playing her. Foe Reaper 4000 might just get hexed as soon as you play it.

There needs to be some sort of unstable genes minion that blows up when transformed into another minion.

[KingZog3]

That new Shaman card is really silly. It's not particularly useful, unless the meta is really aggro heavy. If you're facing a control deck it's just too risky.

EDIT: 4 mana spell, put a random minion from each player's hand into the battlefield.

[Awaclus]

That new Shaman card is really silly. It's not particularly useful, unless the meta is really aggro heavy. If you're facing a control deck it's just too risky.

EDIT: 4 mana spell, put a random minion from each player's hand into the battlefield.

I assume that doesn't mean I get the minion from my opponent's hand?

[popsofctown]

It's hard to expect an 8 cost minion that doesn't act immediately like Rag to see play.

Gruul has nice stats too, but he doesn't see the light of day.

Ysera?

You mean like a counter to Ysera. Ysera still gives you a card on the turn it's played, and has 12 health.

But Malygos drives home the point. You just can't allow that dragon to stay alive when played by a Rogue.

This new legendary can help clean up Kel'Thuzad's army, and it's something else that can pop up from Sneed's Old Shredder. But of course Sneed has the same problem brought up about 8 mana minions.

8+ mana minions that aren't game winners aren't looked upon highly in constructed. Still, the effect of this legendary is really strong if it gets off an attack.

Do you know why Malygos is only played by Rogues? Because Preparation allows you to get an effect out of it the same turn it's played.  Malygos wouldn't be viable if you had to keep it alive a turn to use it.

Unless you coin out a Charge, super harvest golem has to be kept alive to be used.

It's called the Doom Blade test in Magic, in Magic anything that costs 6 mana or more has to have a battlecry or deathrattle or faerieshroud to be viable or it will lose too hard to doomblade.  Sunwalker sees sporadic use so in Hearthstone that price point seems to be 7.  7+ neeeds something immediate.

[markusin]

It's hard to expect an 8 cost minion that doesn't act immediately like Rag to see play.

Gruul has nice stats too, but he doesn't see the light of day.

Ysera?

You mean like a counter to Ysera. Ysera still gives you a card on the turn it's played, and has 12 health.

But Malygos drives home the point. You just can't allow that dragon to stay alive when played by a Rogue.

This new legendary can help clean up Kel'Thuzad's army, and it's something else that can pop up from Sneed's Old Shredder. But of course Sneed has the same problem brought up about 8 mana minions.

8+ mana minions that aren't game winners aren't looked upon highly in constructed. Still, the effect of this legendary is really strong if it gets off an attack.

Do you know why Malygos is only played by Rogues? Because Preparation allows you to get an effect out of it the same turn it's played.  Malygos wouldn't be viable if you had to keep it alive a turn to use it.

Unless you coin out a Charge, super harvest golem has to be kept alive to be used.

It's called the Doom Blade test in Magic, in Magic anything that costs 6 mana or more has to have a battlecry or deathrattle or faerieshroud to be viable or it will lose too hard to doomblade.  Sunwalker sees sporadic use so in Hearthstone that price point seems to be 7.  7+ neeeds something immediate.

Malygos does something on the turn it's played, but it doesn't automatically win the game on that turn. But...it does kill everything with prep->fan. The thing is it wins the game if it survives a turn.

That new Shaman card is really silly. It's not particularly useful, unless the meta is really aggro heavy. If you're facing a control deck it's just too risky.

EDIT: 4 mana spell, put a random minion from each player's hand into the battlefield.

I like the idea of the card. Empty your hand, then play that to get an uber minion with 4 mana. What's lame about the card is that it's a Shaman card. Like, Fire Elemental is bread and butter for Shaman, and this part ruins it's main value by skipping the battlecry.

[Titandrake]

That Shaman card reminds me of Voidcaller, except Voidcaller gives you a decent body and it's much easier to control having 1 demon in hand rather than having 1 big minion in hand. It could be funny in Alarm-o-bot style decks, but I don't think Hearthstone has the right cards to make that deck consistent enough.

[HiveMindEmulator]

Seems terrible to me. In some sense you need the minion you get to be worth 4 mana and 1 card more than the minion your opponent gets, which seems like an incredibly difficult condition to pull off.

[markusin]

Seems terrible to me. In some sense you need the minion you get to be worth 4 mana and 1 card more than the minion your opponent gets, which seems like an incredibly difficult condition to pull off.

And note that Innervate can already let you play a minion 2 mana higher than your curve for 1 extra card. Innervate also doesn't play a card for your opponent! So, you better be plopping down Kel'Thuzad or Ragnaros or something. I'd personally want to summon Thermaplugg with it, but that's more for kicks and giggles.

[blueblimp]

It's called the Doom Blade test in Magic, in Magic anything that costs 6 mana or more has to have a battlecry or deathrattle or faerieshroud to be viable or it will lose too hard to doomblade.  Sunwalker sees sporadic use so in Hearthstone that price point seems to be 7.  7+ neeeds something immediate.

Sunwalker has taunt, which also works for justifying high mana. Ancient of War sees play sometimes, costs 7, and only has taunt going for it.

[Jorbles]

It's called the Doom Blade test in Magic, in Magic anything that costs 6 mana or more has to have a battlecry or deathrattle or faerieshroud to be viable or it will lose too hard to doomblade.  Sunwalker sees sporadic use so in Hearthstone that price point seems to be 7.  7+ neeeds something immediate.

Sunwalker has taunt, which also works for justifying high mana. Ancient of War sees play sometimes, costs 7, and only has taunt going for it.

I think Ironbark vs AoW is worth considering here. To me it says that from 7-8 is the threshold. AoW is occasionally played as a fat wall for 7 mana, but Ironbark at 8 mana, the size of a giant is mostly used as a budget card to be replaced by other cards when players get them.

[pingpongsam]

Sunwalker only costs 6...

[Awaclus]

Sunwalker only costs 6...

And the argument is that it only gets played because it has the Taunt. There aren't many $6 Minions without a Battlecry, a Deathrattle or Taunt, and the ones that exist don't see a lot of play in Constructed.

I guess Charge and Divine Shield are also reasons to play more expensive Minions, but they're pretty rare on expensive Minions.

[markusin]

Sunwalker only costs 6...

And the argument is that it only gets played because it has the Taunt. There aren't many $6 Minions without a Battlecry, a Deathrattle or Taunt, and the ones that exist don't see a lot of play in Constructed.

I guess Charge and Divine Shield are also reasons to play more expensive Minions, but they're pretty rare on expensive Minions.

Argent Commander doesn't seem half bad in constructed. It can earn it's value at the very least.