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[Cas Liber]

Surely Hoard? Always gun for it. Each time you buy a VP you get a Gold. Deck keeps filling with gold alongside VPs and hence you can by VPs earlier and not worry about deck diluting too badly (?)
Cas

Sure, hoard is okay, but gold and a green card is three money in two cards, so 1.5 money per card. 1.5 money times 5 cards is just 7.5 money for a five card hand, not even enough to afford a province, so buying early green just to trigger your hoard isn't really getting your deck towards a desirable state.

Edit: The best use for hoard, other than alt vp, is keeping your deck from falling of a cliff once you've started greening. It's generally not very good to use hoard as a way of greening earlier, because the early green can stop you from reaching provinces pretty easily.

Yeah/agree/should have specified when I said 'earlier' I didn't mean 'right from the get-go' 

[dondon151]

Hoard is, if not at least very ignorable, not usually an essential part of most decks.

[soulnet]

Sure, hoard is okay, but gold and a green card is three money in two cards, so 1.5 money per card. 1.5 money times 5 cards is just 7.5 money for a five card hand, not even enough to afford a province, so buying early green just to trigger your hoard isn't really getting your deck towards a desirable state.

Edit: The best use for hoard, other than alt vp, is keeping your deck from falling of a cliff once you've started greening. It's generally not very good to use hoard as a way of greening earlier, because the early green can stop you from reaching provinces pretty easily.

Hoard does allow you to green really early (whenever you have Hoard in play), because you are rarely playing BMU, more likely something like Terminal Draw-BM, and 1.5 per card is pretty good once you have more than 5 cards in hand. Also, the deck is high variance and extremely good at Duchy dancing, so greening earlier is important, as long as you eventually get to the 4 Provinces you need (in a BM mirror).

[jsh357]

A larger point is that understanding Hoard doesn't really improve your understanding of the game that much, whereas many other cards on the list do.  (If I'm understanding the purpose)  With Hoard, the only decision after getting it is "get green cards or don't," so it's a bit simplistic.

[Eevee]

Sure, hoard is okay, but gold and a green card is three money in two cards, so 1.5 money per card. 1.5 money times 5 cards is just 7.5 money for a five card hand, not even enough to afford a province, so buying early green just to trigger your hoard isn't really getting your deck towards a desirable state.

Edit: The best use for hoard, other than alt vp, is keeping your deck from falling of a cliff once you've started greening. It's generally not very good to use hoard as a way of greening earlier, because the early green can stop you from reaching provinces pretty easily.

Hoard does allow you to green really early (whenever you have Hoard in play), because you are rarely playing BMU, more likely something like Terminal Draw-BM, and 1.5 per card is pretty good once you have more than 5 cards in hand. Also, the deck is high variance and extremely good at Duchy dancing, so greening earlier is important, as long as you eventually get to the 4 Provinces you need (in a BM mirror).

Sure, but getting hoard that early is questionable. It of course shines with terminal draw BM, but that's not always (usually?) an option, and even when it is, it's not always the best one. Hoard does let you green earlier, but the post that stemmed all this implied that it's a game-changer you want to get as early as possible so you'd get to go green earlier, which is not the case.

[soulnet]

Sure, but getting hoard that early is questionable. It of course shines with terminal draw BM, but that's not always (usually?) an option, and even when it is, it's not always the best one. Hoard does let you green earlier, but the post that stemmed all this implied that it's a game-changer you want to get as early as possible so you'd get to go green earlier, which is not the case.

I agree it is not a game-changer. It is a BM-game-changer, and in those cases, you want to green earlier (though in some cases, like Cultist-BM, it is not really earlier, but the same time you would have greened anyway).