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[Beyond Awesome]

Actually, no wait. If Ash says that all town players must push the button that still means I am not pushing the button regardless, so yah, town can not do this tonight.

So, the real question is should town push the button tomorrow night and should I kill myself tonight?

[Hydrad]

then there is option C...

we lynch you to push the button tonight.

Note I'm against this plan and think BA is towny but we would have to make sure asher stays alive till tomorrow otherwise.

or option D.

we just don't do anything with ashers power.

[ashersky]

Well, ash. I'm in to do it.

I'm also in to lynch Beyond Awesome.

Do we want to hear the risks?

What are the risks aside from the fact that your power could potentially be role blocked?

The biggest risk comes with not everyone following through.

If some, but not all, members of a faction press the button, bad things happen.

So, say all but one town member pushes the button.  Instead of the upgrade thing, a bad thing happens.

Now, here's the upside -- same thing for any faction, right?  So, scum's options are to ignore my power and use their own powers (free kill, whatnot) but let town get upgraded, or they can get upgraded as well, but it's basically a lost night for everyone.  (pun intended)

Basically, if we can be sure 100% of town will press the button, we're all set.  Scum can roll some huge dice with ignoring the upgrades...but I don't think they will, which is why I was upfront about the fact that there is definitely some anti-town facets to this (upgrading scum powers...).

Basically, I see this is a full setup upgrade power that he's built in.  It's pretty cool, and I agree with BA that he must have put a lot of work into this.

[XerxesPraelor]

I so wish I had a QT with ash.

[faust]

Vote Count 2.1

ashersky (1): Beyond Awesome
Beyond Awesome (2): Witherweaver, silverspawn
2.71828... (1): XerxesPraelor

Not Voting (10): Hydrad, ashersky, Ichimaru Gin, xeiron, chairs, Awaclus, 2.7, xxpittip, Robz888, A Drowned Kernel

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day 2 will end Tuesday, January 20th at 7 PM.

[silverspawn]

vote: [/color] for not voting

[Witherweaver]

So Re: BA, I believe his flavor/role claim.  It probably suggests he's town, so

Unvote

I've also been thinking.. should we claim if we pressed the button?  It does indicate to scum that someone who pressed the button has a less powerful role, but that player also could have simply chosen not to use his role last night for other reasons.  And we only need one player to claim they pushed it.

The advantage is helping us unravel night actions/claims down the road.

[silverspawn]

ash, what do you think about BA's claim? The way I see it, we either have to lynch him or wait another night

[xeiron]

Okay. We can't do this tonight though. I'm Charlie, and yes, I'm town. However, as a night action, I must always protect Claire which means I am never allowed to press the button.

However, I'm allowed to perform an action tonight that kills me and does something. If town wants to go along with this, I'm fine, but you guys would have to hold off a night before going through with Ash's plan since I'm unable to push the button.

Three questions.

- Do you know who Claire is?
I am looking for a yes or no, not a name.

- Can you give us a indication of how powerful or beneficial the effect is that would happend if you kill yourself?

- Do you think Clair is town? I mean, why would you ever opt for suiside instead of protecting town. (And probably important town as well if she has a private bodyguard). I am trying to think setup design here.

[Witherweaver]

Protection could be Bodyguard protection instead of Doctor protection. 

[Beyond Awesome]

Okay. We can't do this tonight though. I'm Charlie, and yes, I'm town. However, as a night action, I must always protect Claire which means I am never allowed to press the button.

However, I'm allowed to perform an action tonight that kills me and does something. If town wants to go along with this, I'm fine, but you guys would have to hold off a night before going through with Ash's plan since I'm unable to push the button.

Three questions.

- Do you know who Claire is?
I am looking for a yes or no, not a name.

- Can you give us a indication of how powerful or beneficial the effect is that would happend if you kill yourself?

- Do you think Clair is town? I mean, why would you ever opt for suiside instead of protecting town. (And probably important town as well if she has a private bodyguard). I am trying to think setup design here.

I don't know who Claire is, nor her alignment. I am her bodyguard. So, if she gets killed, I die instead.

If I kill myself I would say the effect is decently beneficial, but not crazy powerful or anything.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I think I believe BA's claim. Unfortunately, it seems to mess up the ashplan somewhat. You said there is a "mildly beneficial" effect if you die? I'm not asking you to claim it if you think it would not be beneficial, but maybe you should since you've claimed almost everything else.

Otherwise, we either postpone the plan (probably terrible, since there's a good chance something will happen to ash). Or you choose to die tonight. Though we haven't yet gotten confirmation that you choosing this other action and dying won't stop town from getting upgraded.

I think your role is especially believable in that it counters ash's everyone-push-the-button-supercharge thing. Depending on just how powerful ash's ability is, it makes sense there would be a mechanic to prevent town from getting upgraded too early or easily (assuming you are town, that is).

[ashersky]

Assuming BA is telling the truth, we have to lynch him if we want to execute my plan tonight.

If we don't trigger the fail safe tonight, we are waiting until N4 at the earliest to try again.

[Witherweaver]

Assuming BA is telling the truth, we have to lynch him if we want to execute my plan tonight.

If we don't trigger the fail safe tonight, we are waiting until N4 at the earliest to try again.

Why Night 4 instead of Night 3?  Is there an even night clause?

[Ichimaru Gin]

Assuming BA is telling the truth, we have to lynch him if we want to execute my plan tonight.

If we don't trigger the fail safe tonight, we are waiting until N4 at the earliest to try again.

Oh yeah. I must have missed that possibility. Well, it's probably worth it then? It's not like he's confirmed town. I'm generally not a fan of lynches for reasons other than thinking people are scummy though. You know how strong your own power is though, so if you think it's worth it, I'm willing to go along.

PPE: 1

[XerxesPraelor]

If ash were a rolecop, this would be a great way to get a free mislynch in without getting suspicion.

But he probably isn't - that's too boring a role for this setup.

[Witherweaver]

If ash were a rolecop, this would be a great way to get a free mislynch in without getting suspicion.

But he probably isn't - that's too boring a role for this setup.

Eh, that's far-fetched.  And he wouldn't be given details of BA's role, just the name of it.  It could be indicative, but I doubt it would explain enough.  Plus, just too elaborate. 

[ashersky]

Assuming BA is telling the truth, we have to lynch him if we want to execute my plan tonight.

If we don't trigger the fail safe tonight, we are waiting until N4 at the earliest to try again.

Why Night 4 instead of Night 3?  Is there an even night clause?

There's a clause, and we'll leave it at that.

[Witherweaver]

Alright.. I can't say lynching someone that's pretty likely town sounds like worthwhile payment to do this.. what do you think?

[ashersky]

Look, there's an argument to be made that waiting isn't that bad, and if I'm killed, we lost a high-risk/high-reward power at worst.  The risk is really high.

Like, I don't know if all players will press the button for sure, which would cause bad things to happen.  I don't know if scum will also press the button, too, of if they think it's worth it just to get free reign on all their own powers (like, what if they are strong enough already?).

I mean, I think if scum were to just let us superpower town without upgrading themselves, that would be game over for them.  Which is why it's designed to be so risky, and also designed to be tempered by scum just getting upgraded too.

In the end, I see at worst just more fun if 100% of the players get upgraded, and at best way more fun PLUS crazier powers and hopefully a net gain for town.

What I like about it is that it's all or nothing -- there's disincentive for any faction to only have one player press the button, since it results in negative effects for the entire faction.

[ashersky]

Alright.. I can't say lynching someone that's pretty likely town sounds like worthwhile payment to do this.. what do you think?

I think...it's a wash at best, and more likely a net loss for town.  Without knowing how many factions or kills there are, it can be worrisome to have less numbers.  We can't accurately predict how many town there are, how many days/nights we have left, etc.

[xeiron]

Alright.. I can't say lynching someone that's pretty likely town sounds like worthwhile payment to do this.. what do you think?

I think the plan is worth it for us if it works, but we are almost certainly worse off if it doesn't.
The strictly best thing to do is probably to forget the plan and our roles and focus on scumhunting. There is less risk to that.
On the other hand, this is a role madness game. And here we have a plan to unlock even more role madness into the game. I really like what I have seen of the setup and the flavor so far. And I think it is hard to let go of an oppurtunity to explore the setup further.

Because of that I am in for the plan.
vote: Beyond Awesome
Maybe not the best or safest choice, but certainly the most fun one.

[xeiron]

If ash were a rolecop, this would be a great way to get a free mislynch in without getting suspicion.

But he probably isn't - that's too boring a role for this setup.

Eh, that's far-fetched.  And he wouldn't be given details of BA's role, just the name of it.  It could be indicative, but I doubt it would explain enough.  Plus, just too elaborate.

Plus Teproc was a role cop. There are limits for how many role cops there are room for in the setup.

[2.71828.....]

I need to reread BA, but based on his claim I think that he is town. 

So I don't want to lynch him, even if that means we won't be able to execute Ash's plan tonight.  I guess scum could fake-claim bodyguard, but I sincerely doubt it.

[XerxesPraelor]

vote: xeiron

Scum goes along with lynching town with little risk.