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[AndrewisFTTW]

Yeah really. Did you read Ela's last post? The first half is pretty much an apology. No young artist should ever feel like they need to apologize for their art. That really bothers me.

[Awaclus]

You're stating your opinion and then trying to force your opinion onto her like it's fact. Also, you don't know anything about what her influences are just from listening to a couple songs, so don't act like you do. Not cool.

That's because it's not an opinion, it is a fact. I believe it is true and I've explained the logic behind it. It doesn't have anything to do with my personal tastes.

Her influences are pointless (to others, anyway) if they can't be heard in her music.

Yeah really. Did you read Ela's last post? The first half is pretty much an apology. No young artist should ever feel like they need to apologize for their art. That really bothers me.

I don't think Ela has a reason to apologize.

[silverspawn]

Come on.

I suppose I could comment on Ela's music now. It's not bad; there's clearly some talent there. However, it sounds a lot like mainstream pop. It might be a good idea to get influenced by a wider variety of genres to make the music a little bit more interesting.

Do you honestly mean to tell us that something is wrong with this piece of feedback?

[Elanchana]

Is there something wrong with liking pop music? You can't force someone to be influenced by something, we all like what we like and it's unfair to judge someone else based on your tastes.

No, I like pop music too. I was specifically talking about mainstream pop (Taylor Swift etc). There isn't anything wrong with liking that kind of music either — it's pretty hard to not like the songs you've heard over and over again, and it's pretty hard to not hear the songs over and over again. However, composing and producing that kind of music is a bit of a waste if you can't force people to hear them over and over again, because otherwise it's incredibly difficult to make people interested in something that doesn't really stand out in any way.

I'm not trying to force Ela to be influenced by anything in particular, or anything at all. I'm just saying what I think is true.

You know, actually, I feel really weird when I listen to actual mainstream pop music. Stuff that sounds like it is fine - that's why I'm so into Eurovision artists because I genuinely do like the sound - but walking around listening to music that I know everyone around me knows makes me feel like I'm being judged, and that in turn makes me feel guilty for liking it. In fact, my song Guilty is all about that feeling in relation to a particular mainstream artist. I'm trying to get over this, because I need mainstream songs to cover on the street, but it still happens a lot. (Speaking of which, does anyone have recommendations for popular songs that are looper-friendly? My setlist still needs some work.)

In terms of my own music, each finished track/demo comes about in a few different ways. For some, I know exactly what kind of sound I want and it's a matter of getting close to it; for some, I hear a certain setting on Reason and base the sound around that; and for some, I have no idea what I want and I just try a few random things until I find something decent. I try extremely hard not to make all my songs sound too similar, but my writing is always my writing and the same trends are going to show up eventually.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Come on.

I suppose I could comment on Ela's music now. It's not bad; there's clearly some talent there. However, it sounds a lot like mainstream pop. It might be a good idea to get influenced by a wider variety of genres to make the music a little bit more interesting.

Do you honestly mean to tell us that something is wrong with this piece of feedback?

Yes. First of all, she never asked for feedback, but Awaclus comes in, tells her she's playing an inferior style of music (which he just claimed was a fact, not opinion) and that she should probably "get influenced" by other music, implying that he has a myriad of worldly influences and Ela doesn't, and just acting like the resident music authority. This led Ela to say "hey wait, I have other music too!", essentially apologizing for her pop tunes and trying to prove she has other influences. Why do you think she would make a post like that if she didn't feel like her music and her credability was being attacked?

I don't think anyone deserves to feel that way, especially a young female artist. So I think Awaclus owes Ela an apology.

[Elanchana]

To clarify, I do welcome critique, but if you take a knock at my aesthetic choices, I'm gonna get defensive because that's what I do.

In this particular situation I'm also inclined to get defensive about pop music in general, because so many people make it sound like an inherently bad thing when it's just as legitimate as other musical genres. It just has different values than, say, classical or folk or rock or something. Part of what makes pop music so popular is that it values the "hook", which is guaranteed to make an impression. Of course I like it for more than that, but still.

[silverspawn]

Come on.

I suppose I could comment on Ela's music now. It's not bad; there's clearly some talent there. However, it sounds a lot like mainstream pop. It might be a good idea to get influenced by a wider variety of genres to make the music a little bit more interesting.

Do you honestly mean to tell us that something is wrong with this piece of feedback?

Yes. First of all, she never asked for feedback, but Awaclus comes in, tells her she's playing an inferior style of music (which he just claimed was a fact, not opinion) and that she should probably "get influenced" by other music, implying that he has a myriad of worldly influences and Ela doesn't, and just acting like the resident music authority. This led Ela to say "hey wait, I have other music too!", essentially apologizing for her pop tunes and trying to prove she has other influences. Why do you think she would make a post like that if she didn't feel like her music and her credability was being attacked?

I don't think anyone deserves to feel that way, especially a young female artist. So I think Awaclus owes Ela an apology.

mh... okay.

[Awaclus]

Come on.

I suppose I could comment on Ela's music now. It's not bad; there's clearly some talent there. However, it sounds a lot like mainstream pop. It might be a good idea to get influenced by a wider variety of genres to make the music a little bit more interesting.

Do you honestly mean to tell us that something is wrong with this piece of feedback?

Yes. First of all, she never asked for feedback, but Awaclus comes in, tells her she's playing an inferior style of music (which he just claimed was a fact, not opinion) and that she should probably "get influenced" by other music, implying that he has a myriad of worldly influences and Ela doesn't, and just acting like the resident music authority. This led Ela to say "hey wait, I have other music too!", essentially apologizing for her pop tunes and trying to prove she has other influences. Why do you think she would make a post like that if she didn't feel like her music and her credability was being attacked?

I don't think anyone deserves to feel that way, especially a young female artist. So I think Awaclus owes Ela an apology.

I'm by no means an authority, but I do have a lot of experience about this particular subject. As a composer, the #1 challenge I've always been struggling with is making my songs interesting enough, and I've tried out a lot of different things from rapidly changing time signatures to polytonality in order to make the music more interesting. Getting into a lot of different genres and becoming familiar enough with them that different elements from different genres find their way to all of my compositions naturally has been a lot more useful than anything else I've tried, which is why I chose to recommend that instead of polymeters or something. I actually became interested in a lot of different subgenres of pop because of that idea, you can hear it in many of my songs and I think it makes them better.

To clarify, I do welcome critique, but if you take a knock at my aesthetic choices, I'm gonna get defensive because that's what I do.

In this particular situation I'm also inclined to get defensive about pop music in general, because so many people make it sound like an inherently bad thing when it's just as legitimate as other musical genres. It just has different values than, say, classical or folk or rock or something. Part of what makes pop music so popular is that it values the "hook", which is guaranteed to make an impression. Of course I like it for more than that, but still.

To be absolutely clear, I was only referring to the specific kind of pop music whose popularity is based on marketing, not the merits of the actual music. Pop in general is great, otherwise I wouldn't be making covers of pop songs.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Thank you for sharing your compositional experience. You still owe Ela an apology.

[Awaclus]

Thank you for sharing your compositional experience. You still owe Ela an apology.

I don't happen to share your belief that young females are unable to handle constructive criticism.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Thank you for sharing your compositional experience. You still owe Ela an apology.

I don't happen to share your belief that young females are unable to handle constructive criticism.

This isn't about how Ela handles herself, this is about you being insulting and rude to her and her music.

[Awaclus]

Thank you for sharing your compositional experience. You still owe Ela an apology.

I don't happen to share your belief that young females are unable to handle constructive criticism.

This isn't about how Ela handles herself, this is about you being insulting and rude to her and her music.

I haven't been insulting and rude towards her and her music. I've said mostly positive things about her music and nothing at all about her.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Well you should probably go back and read what you said, and imagine yourself in Ela's place. I have a hard time believing you would take it as a compliment.

[Awaclus]

Well you should probably go back and read what you said, and imagine yourself in Ela's place. I have a hard time believing you would take it as a compliment.

Why wouldn't I?

[Elanchana]

Thank you for sharing your compositional experience. You still owe Ela an apology.

I don't happen to share your belief that young females are unable to handle constructive criticism.

This isn't about how Ela handles herself, this is about you being insulting and rude to her and her music.

Dude, let it go. I think Awa's justified himself enough by now. Even though I'm of the strict opinion that there's no real difference between mainstream and obscure pop, I get where he's trying to go with this. I'm really grateful for the defense but I think we can move on.

[Seprix]

Most pop music is cliche sounding. If there's a pop song with some new fresh melody, I'm down for it. Sad thing is, most pop music is made to be catchy and simplistic. I don't like that as much.

[Awaclus]

Most pop music is cliche sounding. If there's a pop song with some new fresh melody, I'm down for it. Sad thing is, most pop music is made to be catchy and simplistic. I don't like that as much.

Try this.

[silverspawn]

(...) Even though I'm of the strict opinion that there's no real difference between mainstream and obscure pop (...)

what. what?

[Seprix]

I've decided to post a few newer songs I made, and comment on them a bit. I'd like some thoughts on them, you know, for self-improvement.

https://soundcloud.com/seprix/electronic-sea

This song is Electronic Sea, and yes, it's a bit repetitive. That's a personal demon I don't like, but do anyways because I'm pretty lazy. I admit this song could have more variation. I still like it though.

https://soundcloud.com/seprix/the-enigma

This song is The Enigma, and I really like it, because it sounds like a movie. I could totally imagine this in a Interstellar/Gravity movie clone.

https://soundcloud.com/seprix/castle-crashers-peacetime

This song it named 'Castle Crashers- Peacetime' because it was for a NG contest, really. I like the composition, and unlike most of my song, it has a lot of variation.

https://soundcloud.com/seprix/tom-fulp-goes-to-heaven

Another contest for NG. This one is also repetitive, but it's more dance orientated, so I feel like I could get away with it.

https://soundcloud.com/seprix/composition-03

A piano piece, and one I'm the most proud of.

https://soundcloud.com/seprix/sol-avenger

Made this one for a video game demo. I like the tune, probably could be a bit better, but hey.

https://soundcloud.com/seprix/penelopes-theme

Also 'remastered' one of Elanchana's songs once. I think it came out horribly, but everyone seems to love it, so eh.


So yeah. Posted it smaller so it didn't seem as much like spam. And yeah, I'm totally self-promoting. Seriously though, point me somewhere to what you guys make, I'll click it and watch.

[WalrusMcFishSr]

I just wanted to say that I listened to a bunch of the stuff posted in this thread and found it to be quite excellent. All art is a matter of taste but there can never be too much music in the world. Keep up the good work!

[KingZog3]

It's nice to have very complex music. But when presenting your work, as an artist, you need to give viewer/listener the right to decide if they like it or not. And you need to be able to take the negative opinions. That being said, when critiquing always make it sound more positive than condescending or pretentious. Say how it can be improved in your eyes, and always be sure to make it seem like it's not a fact. Writing is hard too, since we lose intonation in the words and they can sound worse than the intention.

I'd post the small recording I have of me playing, but it's so much work to put them on youtube

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I believe I am a virtuoso of the triangle, if I may say so myself.

Needs more cowbell.

[Seprix]

I believe I am a virtuoso of the triangle, if I may say so myself.

Needs more cowbell.

[Awaclus]

My band's debut minialbum was just released on Bandcamp as a free download.

https://necrocannibalmachinery.bandcamp.com/album/anti-puppet-theory

[werothegreat]

@werothegreat: You use the timbres in your large scale pieces really effectively, although it's tough to hear what the final sound is with just midi - please tell me you've looked for a real orchestra to play these at some point! My one critique is that you sometimes get locked into one key area for a bit too long (I have this problem too in my classical writing), but when you do modulate it sounds refreshing and pretty great. Random question: Have you ever considered adding a top melody/descant to Fairer Than a Burning Lily? It sounds like it would make a fantastic art song.

Thanks very much!  And I have tried to get real orchestras to play my music, with limited success.  As for Fairer Than a Burning Lily, there are lyrics to it (found in the book I wrote), and I'm planning on making a track of my singing the melody to it at some point.