Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[eHalcyon]

Or Joker can be locked away at Arkham for a while, escape and be at large away, etc.  They are going to eventually going to have to contend with the fact that none of these villains are ever killed or truly defeated.

But hey, that's kinda true even with Batman around.

[Witherweaver]

Or Joker can be locked away at Arkham for a while, escape and be at large away, etc.  They are going to eventually going to have to contend with the fact that none of these villains are ever killed or truly defeated.

But hey, that's kinda true even with Batman around.

Right.. and now they have to, in a convincing way, show these villains rise up, be a big problem, have some contention, and still stick around and be relevant for 15 or so years.

[Kuildeous]

Or Joker can be locked away at Arkham for a while, escape and be at large away, etc.  They are going to eventually going to have to contend with the fact that none of these villains are ever killed or truly defeated.

But hey, that's kinda true even with Batman around.

Right.. and now they have to, in a convincing way, show these villains rise up, be a big problem, have some contention, and still stick around and be relevant for 15 or so years.

Yeah, I think Penguin being relevant is enough here. There are plenty of opportunities for new villains to rise up and be beaten down.

My Wiki Fu shows that Dollmaker is a canonical villain, though apparently flexible enough that he could be made into a new villain.

It's probably best that they stay away from the main villains. Having them show up as cameos would be neat. Perhaps Clayface before he became Clayface. You could see how the actor turns to a life of crime, but don't actually make him Clayface. I'm not all that familiar with the other villains (but playing Arkham Asylum/City/Origin helps), but it seems a lot of them had normal identities beforehand, like Nygma. Show them without having them suit up.

But I think inventing villains would be useful here.

[eHalcyon]

Is Gotham supposed to be in the same universe as Arrow and Flash?  They are all DC properties, but Arrow already had the Dollmaker for an episode.

[Witherweaver]

Walking Dead for the win.

[Eevee]

Gotham talk!

I think the show would work so much better if Bruce was a little older, maybe a teenager. As it is, it's just not at all believable they would include him in such gruesome things to this extent. There is no way any sane adult would treat him the way Jim and Alfred are treating him. At this point I think the show would be better without him in the picture at all. Maybe introduce him in the pilot and forget about him for a couple of seasons, or something. I get that they want to focus on his journey to become Batman, but they aren't doing a very good job of it.

I've really liked all the scenes with Edward Nygma. Just like with Penguin, they've managed to strike a great balance between cartoony and realistic there, which I think is the show's biggest hurdle right now. Jim's partner and especially Fish are just so far in the cartoony end it's really tough to watch. It's literally bad enough it makes me pause the episode to write about it here. I also hate every single scene with Jim's wife, but I guess that's the norm. Batista is still a terrible Maroni, I liked the other mafia characters though and Falconi is great. This new killer was a great actor, but you sort of wonder why a hitman who goes to such lengths to hide his identity would leave a signature on every single victim of his or why he would announce he is going to kill the target even after being caught by the police when they are pointing a freaking gun at him. He was described as very professional and not at all insane, so it's really just an example among many of the writers being either very lazy or not very good. The plot takes shortcuts like that all the time, and overexplains many things, but I'm glad they at least eased up on the cliffhangers  in this episode. I like the setting and the general feel, but man this would have the potential to be so much better. It's still probably my favorite show that's airing until Hannibal returns, but it feels like a guilty pleasure because it's so bad in so many ways. If the two current main characters (Oswald and Jim) weren't doing such a terrific acting job, I might honestly not even watch it. Oswald being behind the robbery was a twist I should have seen coming but didn't, so that was great. Him killing the lackeys with cake went too far for me, but I'll give it to them after they managed to surprise me. Who is the woman Fish hired at the end, is she from the comics?

[eHalcyon]

On the flip side, I'm actually liking young Bruce right now.  I don't think he can be a teenager because lots of fans would be angry about the retcon (right?).  I get the sense that Alfred is unhappy that Bruce is looking into these things, but isn't parent enough to deny the kid.  Jim isn't in a parenting role.  Bruce's actions still make sense to me, and I think the actor is doing a good job.

I totally agree that the hitman's actions were inconsistent.  Is he from the comics?  A real pro wouldn't use such a distinctive weapon and surely would have been more discrete if launching an attack at gunpoint.  I just thought of The Last Airbender -- "sneak attacks don't work if you yell it out loud."  Oh, and he probably would have disposed of the body of the man he was impersonating rather than leaving it to rot in an apartment. 

I don't really understand why Jim refuses to explain the situation to Barbara.  Doesn't everybody know that Gotham is totally corrupt?  "Cobblepot is the guy you met earlier.  I was ordered to kill him so I faked it, or else we all would have been in danger.  The idiot came back to Gotham and there's not much we can do about it.  I'm trying to change the GCPD and the city for the better, but it's difficult.  I need your support.  I trust you, and I need you to trust me when I tell you that you need to keep this secret."

I mean, they're engaged.  Confirming that, yes, Gotham is pretty messed up shouldn't be a big deal.  Barbara won't be in any more danger than she already is now, especially if she doesn't spread around the info.  Which, you know, she shouldn't, because it could get Jim killed.  She's an adult that should understand that much.  All the drama feels too artificial.  I don't really like it when people keep secrets for no compelling reason.  So am I missing something there?  This is more a problem with Jim's character than Barbara's, though she had her own secret that wasn't so compelling.

Oswald setting up the robbery was so obvious. C'mon dude, how did you not see that coming?

Are you watching the other superhero films on TV?  Arrow and Flash?  Agents of SHIELD?  I'm liking all of these more than Gotham.  They all have a good tone that mixes some fun into the serious stuff.

[Eevee]

On the flip side, I'm actually liking young Bruce right now.  I don't think he can be a teenager because lots of fans would be angry about the retcon (right?).  I get the sense that Alfred is unhappy that Bruce is looking into these things, but isn't parent enough to deny the kid.  Jim isn't in a parenting role.  Bruce's actions still make sense to me, and I think the actor is doing a good job.

I like the actor too. Parenting role or not, why would Jim discuss gang wars and mob bosses with a 10 year old?

I don't really understand why Jim refuses to explain the situation to Barbara.  Doesn't everybody know that Gotham is totally corrupt?  "Cobblepot is the guy you met earlier.  I was ordered to kill him so I faked it, or else we all would have been in danger.  The idiot came back to Gotham and there's not much we can do about it.  I'm trying to change the GCPD and the city for the better, but it's difficult.  I need your support.  I trust you, and I need you to trust me when I tell you that you need to keep this secret."

I mean, they're engaged.  Confirming that, yes, Gotham is pretty messed up shouldn't be a big deal.  Barbara won't be in any more danger than she already is now, especially if she doesn't spread around the info.  Which, you know, she shouldn't, because it could get Jim killed.  She's an adult that should understand that much.  All the drama feels too artificial.  I don't really like it when people keep secrets for no compelling reason.  So am I missing something there?  This is more a problem with Jim's character than Barbara's, though she had her own secret that wasn't so compelling.

This is something that bothers me often. I don't know why the people making these shows feel compelled to attach romantic subplots to shows and characters when it doesn't help the story. Is there an audience that likes them? Barbara's secret was very stupid too. They are engaged and living together but the fact that she was recently in a committed relationship with a woman never came up? What DO they talk about?

Oswald setting up the robbery was so obvious. C'mon dude, how did you not see that coming?

Are you watching the other superhero films on TV?  Arrow and Flash?  Agents of SHIELD?  I'm liking all of these more than Gotham.  They all have a good tone that mixes some fun into the serious stuff.

I know, I felt so stupid!  Not watching any of those three. I like the mob side of things in Gotham too, so I figured I could give either Sopranos or Ray Donovan a shot.

[eHalcyon]

On the flip side, I'm actually liking young Bruce right now.  I don't think he can be a teenager because lots of fans would be angry about the retcon (right?).  I get the sense that Alfred is unhappy that Bruce is looking into these things, but isn't parent enough to deny the kid.  Jim isn't in a parenting role.  Bruce's actions still make sense to me, and I think the actor is doing a good job.

I like the actor too. Parenting role or not, why would Jim discuss gang wars and mob bosses with a 10 year old?

My understanding is that Bruce is going to find out about this stuff either way.  It's in the news, it's connected to his parents, and Bruce is curious and intelligent.  Might as well be frank with the kid and maybe learn a bit more about what his parents were doing with Arkham, as well as reassure him that the outcome wasn't all bad even though it wasn't what his parents envisioned.  The kid already knows first hand about violent crime in Gotham.

I don't know, I thought Jim's way of talking about the subject with a child was acceptable.  At the least, it didn't break my suspension of disbelief, whereas the hitman's shenanigans did just a little bit.



Agents of SHIELD is pretty slow to start, but it gets really good towards the end of the first season, when The Winter Soldier was released in theaters.

Arrow strikes a nice balance between gritty realism and campy superhero stuff, I think.  And Flash (after only one episode so far) should be jumping into the deep end as far as having actual super-powered characters, which is nice.

[Kuildeous]

I really hope this week's Agents of SHIELD marks the beginning of the end of Fitz's aphasia. The gimmick of him being unable to complete his thoughts articulately may be dramatic (and for all I know, accurate, being that I don't know anyone with aphasia, but I'm sure it's not being that it's television we're talking about), but it halts the momentum of the show.

[Witherweaver]

I don't really understand why Jim refuses to explain the situation to Barbara.  Doesn't everybody know that Gotham is totally corrupt?  "Cobblepot is the guy you met earlier.  I was ordered to kill him so I faked it, or else we all would have been in danger.  The idiot came back to Gotham and there's not much we can do about it.  I'm trying to change the GCPD and the city for the better, but it's difficult.  I need your support.  I trust you, and I need you to trust me when I tell you that you need to keep this secret."

I mean, they're engaged.  Confirming that, yes, Gotham is pretty messed up shouldn't be a big deal.  Barbara won't be in any more danger than she already is now, especially if she doesn't spread around the info.  Which, you know, she shouldn't, because it could get Jim killed.  She's an adult that should understand that much.  All the drama feels too artificial.  I don't really like it when people keep secrets for no compelling reason.  So am I missing something there?  This is more a problem with Jim's character than Barbara's, though she had her own secret that wasn't so compelling.

This is something that bothers me often. I don't know why the people making these shows feel compelled to attach romantic subplots to shows and characters when it doesn't help the story. Is there an audience that likes them? Barbara's secret was very stupid too. They are engaged and living together but the fact that she was recently in a committed relationship with a woman never came up? What DO they talk about?

And Barbara's acting is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo bad.  I've been cringing.

Also, the story there is just being told terribly.  The part last episode where she "breaks up" with Gordon by giving him that ultimatum... no effect there, because you've never been invested in that relationship.  There was nothing to like there.. all you saw was her saying terrible cringy lines for four episodes, then she's like "stop hiding things from me or I leave".  There really wasn't an appropriate buildup to that moment.  I mean, they tried to make the buildup by introducing that police chick to tell her about Gordon's "evil deeds", but it all fell very flat.

[Witherweaver]

Oh yeah, and the lady that plays Fish sucks.

[Witherweaver]

Article about Gotham:

http://badassdigest.com/2014/10/07/gotham-is-the-worst-thing-to-happen-to-batman-since-joel-schumacher/?utm_source=zergnet.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=zergnet_287348

I don't think it's as bad as this guy makes it out to be, but some of the points are valid.

I think the big thing is, what's with the "villain-of-the-week" episode style?  Each episode so far, Gordan and grumps chase down and kill (or arrest) some bad guy.  How much can you get invested in a drama if it's all nicely wrapped up in 40sih minutes broken up by a bunch of car commercials?  Conflicts shouldn't get resolved every week.  The pacing of this show just feels so rushed.

There are the longer character archs---penguin, gangsters, Bruce---but it just feels so hacked together.

[Teproc]

I think the big thing is, what's with the "villain-of-the-week" episode style?

Welcome to network television ?

[Witherweaver]

I think the big thing is, what's with the "villain-of-the-week" episode style?

Welcome to network television ?

Does "network" mean ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX?

[Jorbles]

I really hope this week's Agents of SHIELD marks the beginning of the end of Fitz's aphasia. The gimmick of him being unable to complete his thoughts articulately may be dramatic (and for all I know, accurate, being that I don't know anyone with aphasia, but I'm sure it's not being that it's television we're talking about), but it halts the momentum of the show.

I'm looking forward to catching up, I've only seen the first two episodes and I've been wondering how they'll continue to handle 2nd season Fitz.

[Teproc]

I think the big thing is, what's with the "villain-of-the-week" episode style?

Welcome to network television ?

Does "network" mean ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX?

Technically I think the CW is also a network, but yes.

[Witherweaver]

I kind of thought all channels were networks.  What are all the other ones?

Though, Hannibal is on NBC, and Hannibal is fantastic. 

[Eevee]

I kind of thought all channels were networks.  What are all the other ones?

Though, Hannibal is on NBC, and Hannibal is fantastic.

Even Hannibal suffered from the serial villain syndrome in the beginning, though.

[Witherweaver]

I kind of thought all channels were networks.  What are all the other ones?

Though, Hannibal is on NBC, and Hannibal is fantastic.

Even Hannibal suffered from the serial villain syndrome in the beginning, though.

Yeah, but the serial villains were cool.  And some spanned multiple episodes (Eddie Izzard).  Though I actually missed some episodes of Season 1, so I don't have as great of a feel for how it felt week-by-week.

[pingpongsam]

I seem to be the only watching Hell on Wheels and Justified. Also, House of Cards should be coming back around sometime not to long off.

Walking Dead s05e01 did not disappoint. AHS:Freakshow seems like it will be worth watching, none of the runs has particularly grabbed me.

Finally, Grimm is set to start later this month coming off a pretty big cliffhanger from last season.

[Witherweaver]

Walking Dead season 5 premiere goes down as one of my favorite season premieres ever.  I'm not even sure why.. I was super hyped for it, and after watching it there wasn't even a hint of disappointment or being let down.  Usually when you're looking forward to something so much, it's hard not to build it up beyond the point where it can deliver.  But it was just so satisfying and I can't wait to watch more.

There were some lines I really liked.  "They don't get to live." being my favorite, I think.  And "We don't have to double back." cracked me up.

[Eevee]

The very beginning of s01 had one episode villains that weren't very interesting (to me anyways). I did like all of the ones that spanned over multiple episodes.

[pingpongsam]

From the last episode of Hell on Wheels:

Cullen Bohannon!
Cullen Bohannon!
Cullen Bohannon!
Get your blue coat killin'
ass out here, now!

I'm right here, Sid!

You best come and talk to me 'fore I shoot the piss out of this pig shit town!

All right. Let's talk.

Well, look at you.
You're jealous of my badge. You had to go out and get one for yourself.

You should have kept ridin'.

Yeah, I thought so too. You know, I was half way to Denver after I set that cute Lil' yankee twist's church on fire.
You know what it was made me come back?
It was you, Bohannon. You and me got unfinished business.

Suppose that's right.

What do you say we settle things right now?

I'm all done with killin'.

Well, maybe you gonna get killed.

I'm gonna arrest you.

Well, why don't you come on over here and try.

Drop that gun.

Yeah, come on and take it.

[Gunshot]

Ahh!

[Gunshot]

[Coughs]

Well, dip me in dog shit.

[Coughs and laughs]

The church lady?

That's some good writing, if you ask me.

[Teproc]

I kind of thought all channels were networks.  What are all the other ones?

Though, Hannibal is on NBC, and Hannibal is fantastic. 

Yep, and it has horrible ratings. The only reason it hasn't been canceled yet is that it's an international production and it costs nothing for NBC.

Other channels include HBO, Showtime, AMC, TNT, USA, TBS, Sundance, Starz... I don't know I'm just naming those who make scripted content (of varying quality) but the main difference is that networks have to appeal to a mass audience, and that means serialization is bad because people need to be able to drop in.

Now this is not universally true : Lost is an example of a network TV show that eventually cared little about people being able to drop in. And guess what, the less it cared about that, the less popular it was in terms of ratings. So this episodic "villain of the week" or "case of the week" structure is to be expected on network TV. It can be well done : I enjoy watching an episode of NCIS when I'm at my uncle's house (he's a big fan of that show) but it's a very limited format.