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Author Topic: RMM18 - Guilds Mafia (Town Wins!)  (Read 203860 times)

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jotheonah

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Re: RMM18 - Guilds Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #475 on: November 03, 2014, 10:15:53 am »

Mcmc, did you make a case on me that I missed somewhere? What am I doing on your want to lynch list?
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faust

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Re: RMM18 - Guilds Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #476 on: November 03, 2014, 10:44:47 am »

Reads create accountability

Beyond awesome is off the table for today.


Townier -> scummier

Won't lynch: efhw, Faust, 2.7, Hydrad, beyond awesome, egork
Would lynch: pps, eevee, xp, ww
Want to lynch: Joth, silverspawn

Huh...? Can you comment on your BA case? I actually see him as one of the more scummy players here. I can see your reasoning (though I don't necessarily agree) for the other reads, but BA? Why?

He moved into the would not lynch for today because of his big reads post. I actually agree that na is more likely scum than others, similarly to egork however I think he will be easier to read as time goes on and for now he is posing reads(sheepy null ones) but at least reads. Also there are some extra things ba has done that I don't want to mention but will bring up later if it becomes relevant.

Okay, I see. Putting "Townier -> scummier" above your list was a bit misleading then.
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pingpongsam

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Re: RMM18 - Guilds Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #477 on: November 03, 2014, 10:53:55 am »

I think McMc is town.

Maybe, when I am scum I am all about the pops quizzes because A) I can communicate with my partners to coordinate the mislynch and B) I can appear towny while using ericsonian influence methods and C) I can elicit pre-planned reactions with a carefully crafted list. They are, in effect, superb scum tools and do not make one towny for using them. That said, they are not auto-scum things, either so null at best.

I vastly prefer actual cases or reads lists.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: RMM18 - Guilds Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #478 on: November 03, 2014, 11:06:43 am »

Townier -> scummier

Won't lynch: efhw, Faust, 2.7, Hydrad, beyond awesome, egork
Would lynch: pps, eevee, xp, ww
Want to lynch: Joth, silverspawn

Reposting for clarification

Townier -> scummier

Really won't lynch -> Kinda won't lynch: efhw, Faust, 2.7, Hydrad, beyond awesome, egork
Kinda would lynch -> Really would lynch: pps, eevee, xp, ww
Kinda want to lynch -> Really want to lynch: Joth, silverspawn

Ppe: @pps I try to make my popsquiz also reflect reads. Though I agree with your assessment it does not make me auto town, just helpful. Also it helps because I will back up and elaborate on why people are in their spot on the list.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: RMM18 - Guilds Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #479 on: November 03, 2014, 11:14:17 am »

Mcmc, did you make a case on me that I missed somewhere? What am I doing on your want to lynch list?

Unvote

I just wanted to start a really dumb wagon and see who jumped on board.

You lurked through the beginning, haven't provided much scum hunting content, and I really dislike the above "plan". Post vote discrediting is so advantageous to scum it's hard to see a town narrative. What you have done is votes and instead of explaining or backing it up you discredited yourself and said it was all a plan, you didn't want to lynch efhw. However that only happened once almost everyone else had weighed in. You got a couple supporters and then a lot of disagreement. Being able to see how a wagon turns out before you have to explain yourself is a scum players dream, being able to say it was just a plan and you have no real case is even better. So it makes me really suspicious. Add to that the fact that you are a dangerous scum player(in my book) I am would be quite happy with your lynch and think it is likely you are scum.
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faust

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Re: RMM18 - Guilds Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #480 on: November 03, 2014, 11:23:24 am »

I rather like what mcmc is doing here.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: RMM18 - Guilds Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #481 on: November 03, 2014, 11:37:11 am »

SS - reread complete. Looks townier than normal, which may be a scumtell.

Redflag partner post. You did a whole reread of someone and came out with one non-committal sentence.

I am aware of potential confirmation bias this is more indicative of xp's alignment than ss, but doesn't help either of them.
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Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
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pingpongsam

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Re: RMM18 - Guilds Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #482 on: November 03, 2014, 11:38:34 am »

SS - reread complete. Looks townier than normal, which may be a scumtell.

Redflag partner post. You did a whole reread of someone and came out with one non-committal sentence.

I am aware of potential confirmation bias this is more indicative of xp's alignment than ss, but doesn't help either of them.

agree with this.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: RMM18 - Guilds Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #483 on: November 03, 2014, 11:45:18 am »

Efhw, and 2.7 have both expressed "will vote for ss" thoughts.

Can you two let us know where you stand on ss and why if you think he is scummy are you not voting him.

I understand this may cause some repetition(ie you have a better case) but I would like to get people to commit so as not to let scum stall a wagon through mass agreement and suspicion.
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jotheonah

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Re: RMM18 - Guilds Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #484 on: November 03, 2014, 11:48:40 am »

Mcmc, did you make a case on me that I missed somewhere? What am I doing on your want to lynch list?

Unvote

I just wanted to start a really dumb wagon and see who jumped on board.

You lurked through the beginning, haven't provided much scum hunting content, and I really dislike the above "plan". Post vote discrediting is so advantageous to scum it's hard to see a town narrative. What you have done is votes and instead of explaining or backing it up you discredited yourself and said it was all a plan, you didn't want to lynch efhw. However that only happened once almost everyone else had weighed in. You got a couple supporters and then a lot of disagreement. Being able to see how a wagon turns out before you have to explain yourself is a scum players dream, being able to say it was just a plan and you have no real case is even better. So it makes me really suspicious. Add to that the fact that you are a dangerous scum player(in my book) I am would be quite happy with your lynch and think it is likely you are scum.

Welp, I disagree on almost every point, but I appreciate you explaining. I did lurk through the beginning, because I was IRL busy. I am currently scumhunting plenty -- I made a feint to try to generate some interactions and then I made a reasonable case on SS based on a scummy post. For me for day 1 that's pretty solid scumhunting.

As for the rest, I can see your scum narrative but I can't believe you can't see the town narrative. Generating day one discussion is totally worth a little light deception. And it's not as if I outright lied, which would be anti-town.

As for me being a dangerous scum player ... thanks?
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mcmcsalot

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Re: RMM18 - Guilds Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #485 on: November 03, 2014, 11:49:49 am »

I have read everything!

I'll try to get some reads down shortly. The game is confusing though, people are playing erratically.

Please do try and get a full reads list with explanations. Unfortunately you get the benefit of commenting on what people have said after getting to see how everyone reacted(as scum you can avoid bad wagons/cases) so more original original thoughts and less play-by-play analysis will be the most helpful.
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XerxesPraelor

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Re: RMM18 - Guilds Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #486 on: November 03, 2014, 11:51:42 am »

I used to be able to just coast along with a universal town read before; now I have to work for it??

What I noticed about silverspawn was his conversational tone at the beginning that seemed unusual but townier, the lack of a super-scummy tone, and the fact that he didn't contribute that much. That he put suspicion on the people advocating a flavor claim was protown and towny. I kind of feel like scum would think more before proposing such a bad plan as that, but I like that ss pointed out how bad it was instead of just rolling with it.
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XerxesPraelor

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Re: RMM18 - Guilds Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #487 on: November 03, 2014, 11:53:10 am »

SS - reread complete. Looks townier than normal, which may be a scumtell.

Redflag partner post. You did a whole reread of someone and came out with one non-committal sentence.

I am aware of potential confirmation bias this is more indicative of xp's alignment than ss, but doesn't help either of them.

So why do you think I chose ss to read in the first place?
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: RMM18 - Guilds Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #488 on: November 03, 2014, 11:56:13 am »

faust: He claims he has a condition in due time he wishes to reveal. My thoughts: tells us this condition or don't tease us. I don't quite see yet what faust is doing here. I think this might be him trying to get others to state what their special abilities are. He seems to be trying to get information out in the open.  I find it fishy that he seems to be trying to force town to reveal info this early. He's on my scum radar for sure.

So, you have a scum read on me. Well, be my guest. But what's really fishy here is your argumentation:

1. You accuse me of "trying to get others to state what their special abilities are". Which, first, I have never done, and second, you are doing in the very same post.
2. How do I seem to try to get information out in the open? Can you back this accusation up? I doubt it.

Ultimately, your case boils down to taking a random post of mine and twisting it around until I look scummy, by accusing my of things that are supposedly implied by that post, but in fact aren't, and ignoring everything else I did so far. Now who is scummy?

How is me putting reads on people trying to get special abilities or flavor names out in the open?

Anyway, from reading your posts, I felt like you were tying to be a bit sly trying to get us to reveal info by starting off with the whole I have this interesting role you guys should know about. What happens is that we have one player who says this and then other players start saying, I also have a cool role and let me tell you what it is. Then, we have people saying their roles and mass claiming which is not good for town D1. Now, maybe I'm wrong, but that is what I felt you were trying to cause with your very early post there.

I also did not like when you say that anyone who thinks they should be mislynched should bid on the governor. As mcmc pointed out, it is better to protect a really good power role from getting NK'd rather than protecting a town player who played scummy so as to get mislynched. And, your response is that everyone has a power role. While this is true, not all PRs are created equal. Now, maybe you posted without fully thinking the plan through. But, it is still a bit fishy in my book. I guess I hold your actions to a high standard because I see you as a very good mafia player.

Another thing that strikes me as odd is that from the Dice Mafia game I played with you, you were almost always on the offensive trying to find out who scum is. This game (so far) I feel like you are more on the defensive rather than the offensive. And, I find that strange because I remember just how gung ho you would get in Dice Mafia. Honestly, even though you were annoying at times that game and sometimes went a bit too far with the tunneling, I do feel your actions helped town (except that day WW and I claimed masons and actually were masons).

PPE: 7
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mcmcsalot

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Re: RMM18 - Guilds Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #489 on: November 03, 2014, 11:57:51 am »

@joth

You are right I sort of missed your case on as which I obviously agree with. That's also very contradictory of what scum!joth would do. I doubt if ss is scum you are his partner and I think as is scum. I am not voting for you and don't plan to, but your place on the popsquiz stays because if ss flips town, your main contribution to scumhunting is null.

We can agree to disagree on the usefulness of "creating interactions" with a fake wagon. If you want look at my stance against it go read my response anytime robz has done that.

Baisically my "want to lynch" category was the person I am voting for and you who if it wasn't for the fact that I find ss scummier and you agree, I would be voting you.
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Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

Beyond Awesome

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Re: RMM18 - Guilds Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #490 on: November 03, 2014, 12:01:55 pm »

PPS: Claims to have an anti-town role. This seems very familiar to Dice Mafia and PPS was town that game, so....

Oh, and could you please finish your sentences? I honestly have no idea whether you mean to continue this sentence with "so he must be town" or with "so he's imitating a town meta and is surely scum".

Well, I am uncertain with PPS, so I guess that is more null than anything. I don't see him as town, but his play style reminds me of Dice Mafia and for pretty much that entire game I wanted to lynch him, and he turned out town at the end. I guess I do find PPS a bit scummy but as others have pointed out when PPS appears scummy he is almost always town. So, for D1, I am giving PPS the benefit of the doubt until I see more interaction from him.
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EFHW

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Re: RMM18 - Guilds Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #491 on: November 03, 2014, 12:07:14 pm »

Efhw, and 2.7 have both expressed "will vote for ss" thoughts.
Did I?  If so, that's not where I'm at now.  I have more of a townread on him, just on a feelings level, he seems genuine to me.  I don't want to vote for him.

e, WW and maybe Eevee are at the top of my want to lynch list.  I'm looking forward to hearing more from Eevee soon.  Won't lynch mcmc, faust, ss, joth.  Townvibe on all of them.  Null on XP, egorK, BA, pps. Who am I missing?  Hydrad.  Null on him too.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: RMM18 - Guilds Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #492 on: November 03, 2014, 12:14:19 pm »

Efhw, and 2.7 have both expressed "will vote for ss" thoughts.
Did I?  If so, that's not where I'm at now.  I have more of a townread on him, just on a feelings level, he seems genuine to me.  I don't want to vote for him.

e, WW and maybe Eevee are at the top of my want to lynch list.  I'm looking forward to hearing more from Eevee soon.  Won't lynch mcmc, faust, ss, joth.  Townvibe on all of them.  Null on XP, egorK, BA, pps. Who am I missing?  Hydrad.  Null on him too.

Can you explain why you won't lynch joth? I feel like he has done very little to contribute this game. What exactly makes you get a town vibe from him?
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mcmcsalot

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Re: RMM18 - Guilds Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #493 on: November 03, 2014, 12:20:59 pm »

SS - reread complete. Looks townier than normal, which may be a scumtell.

Redflag partner post. You did a whole reread of someone and came out with one non-committal sentence.

I am aware of potential confirmation bias this is more indicative of xp's alignment than ss, but doesn't help either of them.

So why do you think I chose ss to read in the first place?

If you are asking me for the scum narrative behind it scum!xp feels like he has to comment on the growing suspicion of his scumpartner!silverspawn but it's pretty hard to analyze your partner and you end up making a really non-committal post.

The town narrative is what I don't see. If town!xp has no clue of silverspawn alignment I don't see why you go through the hassle of rereading silverspawn and coming up with basically a null read.
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Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
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EFHW

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Re: RMM18 - Guilds Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #494 on: November 03, 2014, 12:34:50 pm »

Efhw, and 2.7 have both expressed "will vote for ss" thoughts.
Did I?  If so, that's not where I'm at now.  I have more of a townread on him, just on a feelings level, he seems genuine to me.  I don't want to vote for him.

e, WW and maybe Eevee are at the top of my want to lynch list.  I'm looking forward to hearing more from Eevee soon.  Won't lynch mcmc, faust, ss, joth.  Townvibe on all of them.  Null on XP, egorK, BA, pps. Who am I missing?  Hydrad.  Null on him too.

Can you explain why you won't lynch joth? I feel like he has done very little to contribute this game. What exactly makes you get a town vibe from him?

Well he did stop momentum from gaining on my wagon.  Of course, he encouraged that momentum, too, but there are more graceful ways of backing out of a wagon than saying you only pretended to want to be on it.
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XerxesPraelor

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Re: RMM18 - Guilds Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #495 on: November 03, 2014, 01:06:52 pm »

SS - reread complete. Looks townier than normal, which may be a scumtell.

Redflag partner post. You did a whole reread of someone and came out with one non-committal sentence.

I am aware of potential confirmation bias this is more indicative of xp's alignment than ss, but doesn't help either of them.

So why do you think I chose ss to read in the first place?

If you are asking me for the scum narrative behind it scum!xp feels like he has to comment on the growing suspicion of his scumpartner!silverspawn but it's pretty hard to analyze your partner and you end up making a really non-committal post.

The town narrative is what I don't see. If town!xp has no clue of silverspawn alignment I don't see why you go through the hassle of rereading silverspawn and coming up with basically a null read.

I didn't see very much pressure on ss, and I don't think anyone was expecting me to talk about him? Basically I figured I should be contributing and just chose him at random to be the person to read. It wasn't much of a hassle, were barely into the game, and if I find someone null, what do you want me to do? Make up a read? I did also just post more detailed thoughts on him - you can see if they look like partner-reads. (I don't see why it would be any harder to have a read on a scumbuddy, but if you think it's hard to fake, you can look at what I just added)
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mcmcsalot

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Re: RMM18 - Guilds Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #496 on: November 03, 2014, 01:57:23 pm »

Efhw, and 2.7 have both expressed "will vote for ss" thoughts.
Did I?  If so, that's not where I'm at now.  I have more of a townread on him, just on a feelings level, he seems genuine to me.  I don't want to vote for him.

e, WW and maybe Eevee are at the top of my want to lynch list.  I'm looking forward to hearing more from Eevee soon.  Won't lynch mcmc, faust, ss, joth.  Townvibe on all of them.  Null on XP, egorK, BA, pps. Who am I missing?  Hydrad.  Null on him too.

Can you summarize the 2.7 case for me, I find him towny for similar reasons you find ss towny so maybe we can learn from eachothers cases.

Also why the town read on Joth? He finds ss scummy which is contradictory to your read. He started a fake wagon on you for "interactions" and has been on the lower end of contribution(which seems to be a theme in your scum reads) so what part of that makes you not want to lynch him?
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

mcmcsalot

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Re: RMM18 - Guilds Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #497 on: November 03, 2014, 01:59:24 pm »

Efhw, and 2.7 have both expressed "will vote for ss" thoughts.
Did I?  If so, that's not where I'm at now.  I have more of a townread on him, just on a feelings level, he seems genuine to me.  I don't want to vote for him.

e, WW and maybe Eevee are at the top of my want to lynch list.  I'm looking forward to hearing more from Eevee soon.  Won't lynch mcmc, faust, ss, joth.  Townvibe on all of them.  Null on XP, egorK, BA, pps. Who am I missing?  Hydrad.  Null on him too.

Can you explain why you won't lynch joth? I feel like he has done very little to contribute this game. What exactly makes you get a town vibe from him?

Well he did stop momentum from gaining on my wagon.  Of course, he encouraged that momentum, too, but there are more graceful ways of backing out of a wagon than saying you only pretended to want to be on it.

Just saw this...still want a good reason for why you won't vote Joth. I am more suspicious that you thought this was an acceptable answer.
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

faust

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Re: RMM18 - Guilds Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #498 on: November 03, 2014, 02:04:17 pm »

How is me putting reads on people trying to get special abilities or flavor names out in the open?

Just look at what I quoted. You are urging me to claim.
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You say the ocean's rising, like I give a shit
You say the whole world's ending, honey it already did

faust

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Re: RMM18 - Guilds Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #499 on: November 03, 2014, 02:14:50 pm »

That whole post by BA is a huge red flag to me. Maybe I am, you know, OMGUSing, but what do others think of it?
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You say the ocean's rising, like I give a shit
You say the whole world's ending, honey it already did
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