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[Witherweaver]

The best argument against the metric system I ever heard was that it was invented by the French.

I admit that's nearly enough to make me want to switch to anything else.

Even better/worse, it's instrinsically linked to the French Revolution. Everyone using the metric system has blood on their hands !

LITRES of blood.

[Asper]

The best argument against the metric system I ever heard was that it was invented by the French.

I admit that's nearly enough to make me want to switch to anything else.

Alors, petit homme, c'est trop! Nous francais sont les plus sympathiques personnes du monde! Et si tu ne comprends ca, je croi que tu a besoin que je te passe à tabac avec une affiche gigantesque d'art harem!

No, actually, i don't see where all this hate for the french comes from. They make amazing cheeze, are a grande nation of comics and have an impressive cultural heritage. And they invented french freedom fries*.

*Unpatriotic words were changed.

[pacovf]

The best argument against the metric system I ever heard was that it was invented by the French.

I admit that's nearly enough to make me want to switch to anything else.

Alors, petit homme, c'est trop! Nous francais sont les plus sympathiques personnes du monde! Et si tu ne comprends ca, je croi que tu a besoin que je te passe à tabac avec une affiche gigantesque d'art harem!

No, actually, i don't see where all this hate for the french comes from. They make amazing cheeze, are a grande nation of comics and have an impressive cultural heritage. And they invented french freedom fries*.

*Unpatriotic words were changed.

Oh don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with the French, other than the fact that they are French.

Parisians, on the other hand...

You might need to brush up on your French though

[sudgy]

Here Tables, this puzzle is partially dedicated to you: http://sudgylacmoe.blogspot.com/2015/06/puzzle-44-boxing-match-3.html

[GendoIkari]

[Asper]

You might need to brush up on your French though

I have become rather rusty. You just never speak french if you are not from/in a french-speaking Country.

[Tables]

Here Tables, this puzzle is partially dedicated to you: http://sudgylacmoe.blogspot.com/2015/06/puzzle-44-boxing-match-3.html

Solved.

I've even coloured blue when I used this rule, and numbered the order I deduced things in (note that 2 only refers to part of the line below, it got finished off by box 9). The place it has to be used is box 8, since without the rule you could just extend box 2 and have box 8 as a square as a valid alternative solution

Edit: Just noticed I repeated a number. Not going to re-upload. Small box 5 came first, big box 5 should be 6 and so on

[GendoIkari]

Here Tables, this puzzle is partially dedicated to you: http://sudgylacmoe.blogspot.com/2015/06/puzzle-44-boxing-match-3.html

Solved.

I've even coloured blue when I used this rule, and numbered the order I deduced things in (note that 2 only refers to part of the line below, it got finished off by box 9). The place it has to be used is box 8, since without the rule you could just extend box 2 and have box 8 as a square as a valid alternative solution

Edit: Just noticed I repeated a number. Not going to re-upload. Small box 5 came first, big box 5 should be 6 and so on

Confused, where are the rules to this puzzle?

[Tables]

Here Tables, this puzzle is partially dedicated to you: http://sudgylacmoe.blogspot.com/2015/06/puzzle-44-boxing-match-3.html

Solved.

I've even coloured blue when I used this rule, and numbered the order I deduced things in (note that 2 only refers to part of the line below, it got finished off by box 9). The place it has to be used is box 8, since without the rule you could just extend box 2 and have box 8 as a square as a valid alternative solution

Edit: Just noticed I repeated a number. Not going to re-upload. Small box 5 came first, big box 5 should be 6 and so on

Confused, where are the rules to this puzzle?

http://sudgylacmoe.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/rules-boxing-match.html

[sudgy]

Here Tables, this puzzle is partially dedicated to you: http://sudgylacmoe.blogspot.com/2015/06/puzzle-44-boxing-match-3.html

Solved.

I've even coloured blue when I used this rule, and numbered the order I deduced things in (note that 2 only refers to part of the line below, it got finished off by box 9). The place it has to be used is box 8, since without the rule you could just extend box 2 and have box 8 as a square as a valid alternative solution

Edit: Just noticed I repeated a number. Not going to re-upload. Small box 5 came first, big box 5 should be 6 and so on

When making it, I also used it on box 3.  I'm not sure how you figured that out without it...

[ConMan]

Although in HEP, there is this convention that says ħ and c equal 1. So distances, masses and time are regularly expressed in terms of energy. So much for dimensional analysis.

And in GR, c = G = 1 for similar reasons, although it's typical to put everything in terms of length.

[ashersky]

I get the feeling that half of f.ds things I'm a moron; 99% of the other half things I'm an idiot.

The remainder (whatever that may be) just doesn't understand me, but might give me the benefit of the doubt.

[ashersky]

I didn't mean "self-loathing" rudely -- I see a series of posts thrashing "American" things as the bane of his existence while simultaneously knowing he's "American."

I think the patriotism argument is silly, as using inches and feet isn't inherently American -- came from the Brits, right?

Aren't these two statements contradictory?

In any case, tying something as arbitrary as the temperature unit or the lane you drive on to your national identity seems reactionary. There is nothing inherently meaningful in these conventions.

I don't think so.

My point was that Witherweaver was bashing an "American" thing that he hates (Imperial units), but that Imperial units are actually British in origin.  This comes after he was pointedly bashing another "American" thing that he hates (punctuation within quotation marks), which was ALSO shown to not be American by definition.  So, he posts twice about how much he hates specifically American things, and neither of them are actually American.

For the second quote, I was responding the to accusation that I was being patriotic.  I was pointing out that I can't be patriotic about this if they aren't even American things.  There's zero patriotism involved in this discussion.

So, those two quotes, regardless of them being juxtaposed against each other, aren't about the same thing.

[ashersky]

The metric system is ghastly, confusing, obtuse, and annoying.

I'm trying to figure out how metric is more ghastly, confusing, obtuse, and annoying than imperial.

Those terms are subjective, so I cannot fault someone for saying something is ghastly, but is the implication that it's more ghastly than imperial? If so, then how?

21.4mU/l
11.2pmol/l

Can someone equate this to numbers I understand?  Remember, this is SI, not Imperial.  I have no frame of reference for this -- so what if it's base 10?  Even if I know how many milliliters are in a liter, that doesn't help me at all.

Metric is no easier than imperial.

[liopoil]

In the sense that there is no good reason to be base 10-centric, metric isn't better than imperial. Some SI units are defined very conveniently though.

[pacovf]

My point was that Witherweaver was bashing an "American" thing that he hates (Imperial units), but that Imperial units are actually British in origin.  This comes after he was pointedly bashing another "American" thing that he hates (punctuation within quotation marks), which was ALSO shown to not be American by definition.  So, he posts twice about how much he hates specifically American things, and neither of them are actually American

I am pretty sure that Witherweaver wasn't bashing those conventions because he thought they were American, but because he genuinely dislikes them (for whatever reason that you disagree with). To be completely fair, you were the first one to bring nationalisms into the discussion.

For the second quote, I was responding the to accusation that I was being patriotic.  I was pointing out that I can't be patriotic about this if they aren't even American things.  There's zero patriotism involved in this discussion.

Fair enough. Why do you like the Imperial System then? What is so wrong with the metric system?

Please don't answer that the latter is confusing, because which one is more confusing only depends on how often one uses each.

[Seprix]

The metric system is ghastly, confusing, obtuse, and annoying.

I'm trying to figure out how metric is more ghastly, confusing, obtuse, and annoying than imperial.

Those terms are subjective, so I cannot fault someone for saying something is ghastly, but is the implication that it's more ghastly than imperial? If so, then how?

21.4mU/l
11.2pmol/l

Can someone equate this to numbers I understand?  Remember, this is SI, not Imperial.  I have no frame of reference for this -- so what if it's base 10?  Even if I know how many milliliters are in a liter, that doesn't help me at all.

Metric is no easier than imperial.

It's easier to convert, and people born into measuring with metric units can envision them in that way. If you knew metric units when you were born in contrast to imperial, you'd hate imperial units. It has nothing to do with actual use and everything to do with what you are familiar with due to social constructs in the region you were born in.

[ashersky]

The metric system is ghastly, confusing, obtuse, and annoying.

I'm trying to figure out how metric is more ghastly, confusing, obtuse, and annoying than imperial.

Those terms are subjective, so I cannot fault someone for saying something is ghastly, but is the implication that it's more ghastly than imperial? If so, then how?

21.4mU/l
11.2pmol/l

Can someone equate this to numbers I understand?  Remember, this is SI, not Imperial.  I have no frame of reference for this -- so what if it's base 10?  Even if I know how many milliliters are in a liter, that doesn't help me at all.

Metric is no easier than imperial.

It's easier to convert, and people born into measuring with metric units can envision them in that way. If you knew metric units when you were born in contrast to imperial, you'd hate imperial units. It has nothing to do with actual use and everything to do with what you are familiar with due to social constructs in the region you were born in.

So you "know" how much each of those measurements is just by looking at them?

You made a nice statement, but ignored my example.

I'm also not sure what's "easier" to convert -- as you said, it's just what you are used to, right?  If duodecimal is something you are more familiar with, it'll be "easier" to convert than using the metric system.

[ashersky]

To be completely fair, you were the first one to bring nationalisms into the discussion.

To be completely unfair, you mean?  Witherweaver called them "American" units, and also mentioned "growing up with them."  Here's the quote (bold is mine):

This makes me sad:  http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/05/opinions/marciano-america-go-metric/index.html

I readily admit that the decimal math of the metric system is easier, but not that it is in all ways better. The fact is that decimals are lousy at real-life division. Try cutting an orange or a pizza into five or ten slices. Two of the most basic fractions are the third and the quarter. A third and quarter of a foot are four and three inches; the same for a meter are 25cm and .33333-on-to-infinity cm.

They're also, you know, 1/4 and 1/3 meters.  Plus, how is four inches for a third of a foot in any way simpler than 25 cm for a quarter of a meter (or simply 0.25 m)?  Plus, 0.3~ (denoting repeating) cm is not a third of a meter, obviously. 

I think just the line "A third and quarter of a foot are four and three inches" should clue in anyone that these units are not very natural to use with base-10 numbers.

Think of trying to remember different units another way. Learning other languages isn't only a benefit in the international workplace, it makes you realize that there is more than one way to approach everything in this world. The same goes for learning two systems of measurement. It allows us to recognize that distance, weight, and volume can be measured and conceived of in more than one way. Those who have grown up with only the metric system find this an alien and unpleasant concept. But don't blame them -- they've only ever had to learn one system. In the 21st century, Americans have to learn two. That's an advantage that Lincoln Chafee should embrace.

This seems like an awfully contrived argument to me.  I'm not sure that the recognition that observables can be measured and conceived of in more than one way is lost by anyone that didn't grow up with American units.  However, a good deal of intuition is lost by not growing up with metric units, since our calculations (e.g., basic physics) are natural in metric, but we need to convert the numbers back to our units to picture in our head what the event would actually be like in life.

[Seprix]

I'm also not sure what's "easier" to convert -- as you said, it's just what you are used to, right?  If duodecimal is something you are more familiar with, it'll be "easier" to convert than using the metric system.

It's what you're used to. Nothing else really matters. Metric systems are just 'easier' to memorize for youth.

[pacovf]

To be completely fair, you were the first one to bring nationalisms into the discussion.

To be completely unfair, you mean?  Witherweaver called them "American" units, and also mentioned "growing up with them."  Here's the quote (bold is mine):

He called them American because that's where those units are used. That's very different from tying them to nationalisms.

[ashersky]

Fair enough. Why do you like the Imperial System then? What is so wrong with the metric system?

I think the "difficulty" issue of measurement systems is moot -- the ability to learn a system is dependent on the learner, not the system itself.  If someone is better at dividing by 12 than by 10, that's not the system of measurement's fault.  It's the same as learning languages -- I think Japanese is insanely easy as a language to learn, but found Italian very difficult; many people would disagree with me on that.  But neither of us would be wrong, we just learn differently and/or are better at different things.

So I think any argument for either system of measurement that is based on "difficulty" is irrelevant.  It has nothing to do with the relative merits of the system, just the merits of the users.

So, when you remove the users from the equation, and try to appreciate each system in a vacuum, it becomes a subjective discussion about what any one person finds pleasing, right?

I think the Imperial System is much, much more regal, for example.  Metric feels very pedestrian and bland.  If measurement systems were ice cream, Imperial is chocolate and Metric is cardboard.  Imperial presents the more interesting set of vocabulary, with words that fit oddly in the mouth like "quart" and "pint" (which, by the way, is how we measure ice cream).  Only in the imperial can you see for leagues and leagues or lose yourself in the countless fathoms of the deep ocean.  In Imperial you can have a gill of water, a rood of forestland, or drachm of poison.

Really, if King Lear had been poisoned by a daughter, would you rather hear that she had slipped a drachm of poison in his wine, or that...

As the old king clutched his chest, he looked around and saw Goneril grinning maniacally...she had slipped 3.5516328125 ml of poison in his wine...

[ashersky]

I'm also not sure what's "easier" to convert -- as you said, it's just what you are used to, right?  If duodecimal is something you are more familiar with, it'll be "easier" to convert than using the metric system.

It's what you're used to. Nothing else really matters. Metric systems are just 'easier' to memorize for youth.

You cannot back that statement up with proof.  Has there been a scientific study that confirms one is easier to learn than the other?

Also, that doesn't matter at all, and has nothing to do with this argument.

[ashersky]

To be completely fair, you were the first one to bring nationalisms into the discussion.

To be completely unfair, you mean?  Witherweaver called them "American" units, and also mentioned "growing up with them."  Here's the quote (bold is mine):

He called them American because that's where those units are used. That's very different from tying them to nationalisms.

But that's not what those units are, specifically.  He wasn't specifying that he meant the "United States customary units" of measurement, which vary slightly from true imperial.  He was clearly (to me) talking about the imperial versus metric.  Using the word "American," then, was a statement attempting to nationalize (incorrectly) something he feels is inferior.

[Seprix]