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Author Topic: Random Stuff Part II  (Read 1226063 times)

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eHalcyon

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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #2550 on: January 08, 2015, 04:45:44 pm »
+3

i thought the movies were OK, but they don't stand out to me enough to say one is better than another.  Books aren't always better than the movie, but they certainly are with Harry Potter. 

I do remember being disappointed with Goblet of Fire.  It was my favourite of the books, but the length of the movie vs. the book definitely meant a lot had to be cut.  There were some changes that stood out a lot to me.
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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #2551 on: January 08, 2015, 05:04:10 pm »
0

I only watched like half the movies. Was generally extremely unimpressed. I recall that PoA was just ruined for me by the stupid looking werewolf.

It doesn't take much for you to ruin a movie then...
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eHalcyon

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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #2552 on: January 08, 2015, 05:22:09 pm »
+5



Security issues.
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AHoppy

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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #2553 on: January 08, 2015, 05:33:40 pm »
0

i thought the movies were OK, but they don't stand out to me enough to say one is better than another.  Books aren't always better than the movie, but they certainly are with Harry Potter. 

I do remember being disappointed with Goblet of Fire.  It was my favourite of the books, but the length of the movie vs. the book definitely meant a lot had to be cut.  There were some changes that stood out a lot to me.
And this is why I think goblet of fire was the worst movie

AHoppy

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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #2554 on: January 08, 2015, 05:45:09 pm »
0

Also, I just finished reading Golden Son, the sequel to Red Rising, and wow... I don't know what to do with myself now... It's like finishing a GoT all over again (which I did about a week ago)

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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #2555 on: January 08, 2015, 08:56:57 pm »
+1

Poker is over.  Well, at least Texas Hold-em is.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/game-theorists-crack-poker/
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liopoil

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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #2556 on: January 08, 2015, 09:00:40 pm »
+2

Poker is over.  Well, at least Texas Hold-em is.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/game-theorists-crack-poker/
*two player limit texas hold-em
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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #2557 on: January 08, 2015, 10:02:35 pm »
0

Quote
incapable of losing against any opponent in a fair game”.

eh... that's impossible, because you can just have better cards? or does fair mean everyone has the same luck? no game is fair then.

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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #2558 on: January 08, 2015, 10:04:21 pm »
0

Quote
Of course, no poker algorithm can be mathematically guaranteed to win every game, because the game involves a large element of chance based on the hand you’re dealt. But Bowling and his colleagues have demonstrated that their algorithm always wins in the long run.

ah, fair enough

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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #2559 on: January 08, 2015, 10:16:43 pm »
+4

Quote
Michael Bowling and his colleagues at the University of Alberta in Edmonton, Canada, along with Finnish software developer Oskari Tammelin, plays perfectly, to all intents and purposes.

We've found Eevee, I think.
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KingZog3

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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #2560 on: January 08, 2015, 10:44:00 pm »
+1

Quote
Michael Bowling and his colleagues at the University of Alberta in Edmonton, Canada, along with Finnish software developer Oskari Tammelin, plays perfectly, to all intents and purposes.

We've found Eevee, I think.

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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #2561 on: January 09, 2015, 01:22:41 am »
0

I feel like the article leaves out the most interesting part: how does the bot play?  How often does it bluff?  How often does it slow play?  How aggressive is it?  How important is position?  What percentage of hands does it play?  How often does it take the pot with the weaker hand?  And for me the most interesting question would be, if it plays against itself, what percentage of hands make it to showdown?

It's pretty surprising to me that limit hold 'em is now solved (even only for heads up), I would have guessed at least another 5-10 years.  But still, I think we're a long, long way off from solving no limit hold 'em, which is a much more interesting and popular game anyway.
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Seprix

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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #2562 on: January 09, 2015, 02:06:05 am »
+1

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Titandrake

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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #2563 on: January 09, 2015, 03:59:55 am »
+1

I feel like the article leaves out the most interesting part: how does the bot play?  How often does it bluff?  How often does it slow play?  How aggressive is it?  How important is position?  What percentage of hands does it play?  How often does it take the pot with the weaker hand?  And for me the most interesting question would be, if it plays against itself, what percentage of hands make it to showdown?

After Googling around, it seems like the original paper has some stats on how it plays - for instance, it called on the first action 0.06% of the time. The actual paper is going to be trickier to get access to.

I'm not sure if that's from a large sample of possible states, or explicitly from every possible state. For qualitative questions, it's very hard to quantify some of them, and it's entirely possible the bot pays wildly differently on states that appear to be similar in value, so at best you can hope that you can play the bot yourself somehow...
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liopoil

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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #2564 on: January 09, 2015, 09:49:15 am »
+2

I actually met this guy last summer; he said he had it down to one milli-big blind off the nash equilibrium, but hadn't published yet. I guess now he has :P
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Titandrake

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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #2565 on: January 09, 2015, 01:24:49 pm »
0

I actually met this guy last summer; he said he had it down to one milli-big blind off the nash equilibrium, but hadn't published yet. I guess now he has :P

Huh - my impression was that it wasn't the exact solution to the nash equilibirum, and was generated from a very, very large sample of actual game states of poker. Maybe I'm wrong though. Or, maybe they did it over all states, and worked on it til convergence. That way, it's not necessarily exactly perfect because of built-in limitations to how accurately the computer can represent decimals, but it's close enough to not even matter.
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qmech

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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #2566 on: January 09, 2015, 01:36:58 pm »
0

I actually met this guy last summer; he said he had it down to one milli-big blind off the nash equilibrium, but hadn't published yet. I guess now he has :P

Huh - my impression was that it wasn't the exact solution to the nash equilibirum, and was generated from a very, very large sample of actual game states of poker. Maybe I'm wrong though. Or, maybe they did it over all states, and worked on it til convergence. That way, it's not necessarily exactly perfect because of built-in limitations to how accurately the computer can represent decimals, but it's close enough to not even matter.

The "poker is solved" headline has been giving me mathematical twinges too.  Going on nothing else but the news coverage, this is roughly what I'm imagining has happened.

I've a vague idea I heard once that, in the same way that there's an algorithm that will provide a proof for any provable statement, there's an algorithm that is asymptotically optimal at playing games (or maybe it was trading, or perhaps there's no difference).  The idea is that you just try all of the possible strategies and measure how well they all do, and spend progressively more of your time using the better ones.  So what I imagine is that an algorithm like this has been run on this type of poker for a really long time, and that all of the clever work has gone into making it remotely computationally feasible.
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liopoil

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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #2567 on: January 09, 2015, 01:41:21 pm »
0

Right, the exact perfect strategy isn't known, but I guess it is known just how good it is. Their solution loses on average 1000th of a big blind each hand against a perfect strategy.
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GeoLib

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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #2568 on: January 09, 2015, 06:33:44 pm »
0

If you (or your educational institution) have the proper subscriptions, you can find the paper here: http://www.sciencemag.org/content/347/6218/145
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Elanchana

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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #2569 on: January 09, 2015, 10:07:09 pm »
+3



THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!
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heron

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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #2570 on: January 09, 2015, 10:11:25 pm »
0

For some reason Elanchana's message isn't marked as read for me, even though I read it several times and even hit the mark all as read button. Weird.

Edit: Fixed now that I posted. Still weird.
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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #2571 on: January 09, 2015, 10:13:05 pm »
0

For some reason Elanchana's message isn't marked as read for me, even though I read it several times and even hit the mark all as read button. Weird.

Are you sure you didn't hit the "mark unread" button by accident?
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heron

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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #2572 on: January 09, 2015, 10:14:42 pm »
0

For some reason Elanchana's message isn't marked as read for me, even though I read it several times and even hit the mark all as read button. Weird.

Are you sure you didn't hit the "mark unread" button by accident?

Quite certain. Oh well, it seems to be fixed now; your post did not have that problem.
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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #2573 on: January 09, 2015, 10:40:07 pm »
0

That's just your subconscious telling you you missed something important in her message.
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Re: Random Stuff Part II
« Reply #2574 on: January 09, 2015, 10:43:50 pm »
0

For some reason Elanchana's message isn't marked as read for me, even though I read it several times and even hit the mark all as read button. Weird.

Edit: Fixed now that I posted. Still weird.

It's happened to me several times before too...
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