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[Seprix]

Then it makes even less sense that you don't like attack of the clones!

The plot is god awful. I also realized I made a slight error in my statement. Characters are the best thing about a movie. If I don't care about the characters, how can I care about anything else? But you seem to think ST: AotC has some amazing plot, so let me explain it:

The Trade Federation's Nute Gunray wants Padme dead for revenge reasons, which is completely counter-productive to the Separatist agenda, because Padme didn't want an army to fight the Separatists at all, and she's got a lot of sway in the Senate. Can't you set your little thirst for revenge until a bit later, dude? You could kill her later you know. Idiot.

Okay, so the bad guys try to kill Padme, and then the whole decoy switcheroo thing happens. But Padme's not a Queen anymore. She's a senator. (Sorry Anakin) So do all the politicians get decoys, or is it what I think it is, just a Naboo thing? You don't see anybody else doing it, and it was introduced in Episode 1 as some Naboo thing for the Queen. Does Palpatine get a decoy too, since he's from Naboo? He clearly doesn't have one, and if he had one, it could have been so much better, I think. The whole decoy thing with Padme felt like some sort of set-up for me, but that never got used later on, so even including it in the movie made sense less the more I thought about it.

Okay, so Padme is under threat, so Anakin and Obi-Wan are both sent to protect her. Anakin gets creepy with poor writing, and he immediately whines to Padme and says really inappropriate things to her within the first hour of meeting. He continues to be a complete jerk throughout the entire movie, and you're telling me this strong independent woman is still going to fall in love with this desperate selfish cuck? Yeah, right. I don't believe the whole love angle plot wise at all, since Anakin was written so poorly.

So Jango Fett hires an assassin even though he's an assassin (...?), and Anakin saves Padme and whatever, so Obi-Wan sees Jango Fett and follows him to Kamino, where he discovers the planet was hidden and that the Jedi ordered some clone army even though they really didn't, so it's obviously completely shady. But it's okay, Yoda! Use that army! Don't look into the shady stuff going on at all. Some wise man you are.

So I cannot believe Padme falls in love with Anakin at all. He's not even a likable guy. Wasn't Anakin supposed to be great friends with Obi-Wan anyways? Obi-Wan acted like it in Episode 4, but the whole time, Anakin just whines and bitches about how oppressed he is. And then Anakin slays a bunch of sand people. (Best scene in the entire movie. It's actually believable, and I wish it went on a lot longer, just to show the nature of his brutal slaying. I want to see that, man. I want to see the beginning of the descent into the dark side. I also want to see Anakin as a likable guy, someone to root for. He shouldn't even be the main character, but whatever, at least make him likable.)

So Anakin admits that he slayed all those kids and stuff, and Padme is completely cool with it, and marries him a day or two later. Yeah, I believe that. Obi-Wan gets captured, the whole arena battle thing happens, and it looks cool and everything, but man, the whole movie is just complete cancer. Mindless droids fight mindless clones. Who knows, who cares. Shoot shoot shoot. Special effects. Look, the plot is advancing, even though we never explained the Clone Trooper angle. I guess the Jedi don't care either.

So the movie ends, Dooku (horrible name) gets away, Anakin gets married, blah blah blah. I barely went through the plot, and I found like 1,000 things to complain about. I could have gone way more into detail, too.

[pacovf]

Aladdin and Pocahontas are frustratingly ethnocentric

How is Aladdin ethnocentric?

being annoyed at someone because they still always order the Happy Meal at McDonald's in their late 20's

Man, by your late 20's I would say you can be considered an adult already. If you really want a Happy Meal, you go and get it, and fuck everyone that has a problem with that. Worrying about what other people think of you, or hiding the things you really like because you are afraid of public opinion, seems more like teenage thinking than adulthood.

But video games have intricate stories, character development, drama, story telling.  Frozen had.. a mildly entertaining snow man.  It's more, like, Disney keeps rehashing the same story with the same princess but with slightly different skin tone, and the same love interests with slightly differing levels of 'charming scoundralness'.

Again, this still just seems to be "my hobbies are more deserving of attention than yours". If she liked Frozen that much, who cares what the critics say, good for her! Nobody needs people to tell them what they have the right to like or not. If I meet somebody that thinks that Monopoly is the best game ever, I will try to introduce them to "actual" boardgames, but if it doesn't catch their attention and keep thinking that Monopoly is the best way to spend an afternoon, well, cool. I don't have to play with them anyway.

That being said, singing "Let it go" 24/7 will quickly get grating. Mostly I take issue at the "and she was in her late 20's" part.

[Teproc]

On the other hand, the lack of a cohesive plot in (most?) Ghibli movies really bothers me.

A wise man once said that Plot is overrated.

Was that me ? I was about to post that.

[Awaclus]

How is Aladdin ethnocentric?

It has stereotypes everywhere and it's culturally inaccurate. Western movies depicting other cultures can feel like they genuinely respect the foreign culture for its differences, but watching Aladdin feels like going to a zoo in order to look at funny looking weird things.

Man, by your late 20's I would say you can be considered an adult already. If you really want a Happy Meal, you go and get it, and fuck everyone that has a problem with that. Worrying about what other people think of you, or hiding the things you really like because you are afraid of public opinion, seems more like teenage thinking than adulthood.

No, worrying about what other people think of you is certainly an adult thing. The majority of the development in the human brain during the very late stages (i.e. before it starts to deteriorate in the late 20's) affects mostly the prefrontal cortex, which is responsible for worrying about "correct" social behavior. Teenagers are more likely to do whatever they want and not care too much about the consequences.

And even if you don't care about what I think of you, man, I'm still going to find it extremely strange if you eat Happy Meals on a regular basis and I also think I'm perfectly justified in doing so.

[Witherweaver]

Again, this still just seems to be "my hobbies are more deserving of attention than yours". If she liked Frozen that much, who cares what the critics say, good for her! Nobody needs people to tell them what they have the right to like or not. If I meet somebody that thinks that Monopoly is the best game ever, I will try to introduce them to "actual" boardgames, but if it doesn't catch their attention and keep thinking that Monopoly is the best way to spend an afternoon, well, cool. I don't have to play with them anyway.

Yes, and I didn't have to watch movies with her anyway. 

[silverspawn]

On the other hand, the lack of a cohesive plot in (most?) Ghibli movies really bothers me.

A wise man once said that Plot is overrated.

Was that me ? I was about to post that.

yes 

[ashersky]

Again, this still just seems to be "my hobbies are more deserving of attention than yours". If she liked Frozen that much, who cares what the critics say, good for her! Nobody needs people to tell them what they have the right to like or not. If I meet somebody that thinks that Monopoly is the best game ever, I will try to introduce them to "actual" boardgames, but if it doesn't catch their attention and keep thinking that Monopoly is the best way to spend an afternoon, well, cool. I don't have to play with them anyway.

Yes, and I didn't have to watch movies with her anyway.

Dude, just let it go.

[silverspawn]

See, though, most of those aren't actually complaining about the plot, and most of the ones that are are relatively small things, whereas the sixth movie's plot is just one huge predictable contrivance.

I really think it comes down to this:

Characters are the best thing about a movie. If I don't care about the characters, how can I care about anything else?

Which is really the opposite of what you said initially. So you really find characters >> plot, which seems to be the real reason why you dislike AOTC

[pacovf]

No, worrying about what other people think of you is certainly an adult thing. The majority of the development in the human brain during the very late stages (i.e. before it starts to deteriorate in the late 20's) affects mostly the prefrontal cortex, which is responsible for worrying about "correct" social behavior. Teenagers are more likely to do whatever they want and not care too much about the consequences.

We are not talking about the same thing. Anyway, I am derailing the thread.

On the other hand, the lack of a cohesive plot in (most?) Ghibli movies really bothers me.

A wise man once said that Plot is overrated.

Was that me ? I was about to post that.

yes 

We had this discussion before already, yes. I need a certain amount of coherence in my plots for me to enjoy them, at least if the movie wants to take itself seriously. I understand that not everybody agrees.

[silverspawn]

Worrying about what other people think of you, or hiding the things you really like because you are afraid of public opinion, seems more like teenage thinking than adulthood.

I... do that a lot. The worrying part, anyway, not the hiding part. Too much, actually.

Frozen - so... is there a consensus about it in this forum? I really thought it was clearly a good movie, though not an amazing one. It was subversive of stereotypes, it was self-aware, smart, pretty, adorable, and funny. And it has a good message. I can't help suspecting that dislike comes in part from disliking Disney, which I'm free off because I've never seen anything else from Disney.

[Awaclus]

Frozen - so... is there a consensus about it in this forum? I really thought it was clearly a good movie, though not an amazing one. It was subversive of stereotypes, it was self-aware, smart, pretty, adorable, and funny. And it has a good message. I can't help suspecting that dislike comes in part from disliking Disney, which I'm free off because I've never seen anything else from Disney.

I haven't seen it, but based on a couple of YTPs, the visuals don't seem very compelling to me.

[Jack Rudd]

Frozen - so... is there a consensus about it in this forum? I really thought it was clearly a good movie, though not an amazing one. It was subversive of stereotypes, it was self-aware, smart, pretty, adorable, and funny. And it has a good message. I can't help suspecting that dislike comes in part from disliking Disney, which I'm free off because I've never seen anything else from Disney.

I'm a fan. I find characters like Elsa fun to write, and fun to watch.

[yuma]

I feel that in isolation Frozen was an average movie. Nothing really special, but not necessarily bad. But because the bar has been set so low for "Princess" Disney movies this one just flew so far over the others that it appeared to be much better than it actually was.

But I don't think it is a bad movie for what it is or what it was intended to be. I guess my question is why we (as in the world at large, I know why Disney need's them as it is a guaranteed profit for them) still need movies like this about princesses in the first place? Maybe they felt they needed to make one that wasn't completely ridiculous and will never make another princess movie again...? But I doubt it.

Edit: Brave was actually, I think much better than Frozen when it comes to "Princess" movies. But Brave was Pixar. So that was probably why.

[ashersky]

I feel that in isolation Frozen was an average movie. Nothing really special, but not necessarily bad. But because the bar has been set so low for "Princess" Disney movies this one just flew so far over the others that it appeared to be much better than it actually was.

But I don't think it is a bad movie for what it is or what it was intended to be. I guess my question is why we (as in the world at large, I know why Disney need's them as it is a guaranteed profit for them) still need movies like this about princesses in the first place? Maybe they felt they needed to make one that wasn't completely ridiculous and will never make another princess movie again...? But I doubt it.

Edit: Brave was actually, I think much better than Frozen when it comes to "Princess" movies. But Brave was Pixar. So that was probably why.

To have a reasonable answer to your question (why do we need so many "princess" movies), I think you need to consult the Muses or whomever is in charge of "stories" in general -- Disney didn't invent most of their princess stories, they've been around sometimes for 100s of years.  Whether their adaptations of those stories are well done or terrible is subjective, but it isn't like Disney sits around making up princess stories.

Hua Mulan's story has been told since the 6th century; Badroulbadour (Jasmine) is hundreds of years old; Aurora (Sleeping Beauty) and Snow White are from Grimm; the oldest known Cinderella comes from China in 860 (Ye Xian).  Even Tiana is based on Grimm, and I thought that was one of their best, most "original" princesses in a long time.  As for Elsa -- she's from Hans Christian Andersen's The Snow Queen.

All in all, I know it's normal to group all of the "princess" movies together, but I don't think a lot of viewers think about them in the historical literary context from whence they came.  These are modernized animated versions of sometimes ancient stories -- and ancient stories that last this long to be retold over and over have survived for a reason: they resonate with humankind.

TLDR: Disney Princess movies are no different from Shakespeare's plays -- eternal retelling of stories for the entertainment of the masses that have stood the test of time.

[yuma]

To have a reasonable answer to your question (why do we need so many "princess" movies), I think you need to consult the Muses or whomever is in charge of "stories" in general -- Disney didn't invent most of their princess stories, they've been around sometimes for 100s of years.  Whether their adaptations of those stories are well done or terrible is subjective, but it isn't like Disney sits around making up princess stories.

Hua Mulan's story has been told since the 6th century; Badroulbadour (Jasmine) is hundreds of years old; Aurora (Sleeping Beauty) and Snow White are from Grimm; the oldest known Cinderella comes from China in 860 (Ye Xian).  Even Tiana is based on Grimm, and I thought that was one of their best, most "original" princesses in a long time.  As for Elsa -- she's from Hans Christian Andersen's The Snow Queen.

All in all, I know it's normal to group all of the "princess" movies together, but I don't think a lot of viewers think about them in the historical literary context from whence they came.  These are modernized animated versions of sometimes ancient stories -- and ancient stories that last this long to be retold over and over have survived for a reason: they resonate with humankind.

TLDR: Disney Princess movies are no different from Shakespeare's plays -- eternal retelling of stories for the entertainment of the masses that have stood the test of time.

Those are fair points and is certainly a reasonable answer, but probably not good enough for me. There are plenty of non-princess stories out there that Disney isn't touching, or at least weren't touching very often (maybe they feel that Pixar stories are enough?). Or when they do a Princess story they butcher it into something almost unrecognizable (Little Mermaid). I read the Andersen and Grimm fairy tales a while back and there were a bunch (can't really remember as they all blend it after a certain while) that were brilliant that didn't involve the stereotypical princesses.

And I don't really consider Mulan to be a Princess story. And, I had forgotten about The Frog Princess--I did enjoy that one. 

[Witherweaver]

Again, this still just seems to be "my hobbies are more deserving of attention than yours". If she liked Frozen that much, who cares what the critics say, good for her! Nobody needs people to tell them what they have the right to like or not. If I meet somebody that thinks that Monopoly is the best game ever, I will try to introduce them to "actual" boardgames, but if it doesn't catch their attention and keep thinking that Monopoly is the best way to spend an afternoon, well, cool. I don't have to play with them anyway.

Yes, and I didn't have to watch movies with her anyway.

Dude, just let it go.

I can't    If it wasn't for her I wouldn't even get that reference!

[Kuildeous]

Squeed like a girl when I saw Fury Road on HBO last night. I was busy doing chores, so I only had it on in the background, but I recorded it for later scrutiny.

Man, I missed so much when I first saw it. Drive-in theatres should have captions. They just aren't ideal places to listen to a movie. At home, with the closed-captioning on, I was able to catch a lot more: McFeasting in Valhalla, bullets as antiseeds, Barry and Larry, and the interplay between the three tribes. And that was just what I caught while I was engrossed in my chores.

That movie is just insane with its characters and vehicles. The language was tweaked to remind us we were in an alien setting ("You traited him!").

Now that I know about the filming style of the movie, I paid attention to it and marveled at how much effort was put into bringing the focus to the center.

Makes me so happy I resubscribed to HBO this month (well, and Game of Thrones).

[Teproc]

After rewatching the X-Men trilogy, and at the cost of any reputation I may or may not have as a cinephile, I can declare that the correct ranking for them is (with a significant margin between each of them) :

1. X-Men: The Last Stand
2. X-Men
3. X2

And while I can maybe comprehend why The Last Stand rubs people the wrong way, I cannot for the life of me understand how X2 came to be so revered.

[pingpongsam]

Looking through Amazon movies to pay to watch in tonight. Narrowed down to High Rise or The Invitation. Any f.ds reviews before we decide?

[Seprix]

Invitation has higher ratings, but High Rise is sci-fi. Tough choice.

[Awaclus]

but High Rise is sci-fi

Well, clearly being sci-fi isn't enough to make it a better movie since it has lower ratings.

Actually it doesn't make it any better at all — it's a genre, not a measure of quality.

[Teproc]

but High Rise is sci-fi

Well, clearly being sci-fi isn't enough to make it a better movie since it has lower ratings.

Actually it doesn't make it any better at all — it's a genre, not a measure of quality.

Seprix is making the (entirely reasonable given the demographics of this forum) assumption that "sci-fi" is a draw regardless of quality... besides, "quality" doesn't exist in art, but that's another debate. And if it did, "higher ratings" wouldn't be a great indicator of it either.

[pingpongsam]

The reviews on Amazon often run counter to my own opinions so I really felt the reviews weren't as valuable as input here. That Invitation is a thriller is very attractive to me.

[Seprix]

Even bad sci-fi can be interesting sometimes, because it could have some cool idea or concept that even when executed poorly, sort of works. I'm a little sad that there are so many dystopian movies now stemming from the success of The Hunger Games (which is perfectly fine, though I liked Gregor the Overlander by the same author more), which of course means sci-fi is now probably going to suffer a little long term. That being said, I like the sci-fi genre more in general than say, a rom-com.

[pingpongsam]

High Rise was written in 1975 so I'm not sure it has a whole lot to do with Hunger Games unless you mean the fact it was adapted at all.