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scott_pilgrim

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Dominion: Fiefdom (WIP)
« on: July 29, 2014, 05:46:59 pm »
+3

So I’ve finally started sleeving my cards, which means playtesting fan cards will be a possibility (in the past I’ve only been able to use one or two proxies at a time, and even then I’ve only done a few games with fan cards).  I took a bunch of card ideas I’ve had written down in a spreadsheet, pulled a few of my favorites, changed and added stuff until I think I now have a complete set.  As most of the cards are completely unplaytested (and those which have had playtesting have had very little), I expect I’ll be making a lot of changes.  But, I would like some preliminary feedback before I print these cards for playtesting.

The main theme of the set is, uh, “set [cards/actions/buys/coins] equal to X”, if that makes sense.  For cards, that just means “draw up to X”.  For the other vanilla bonuses, it’s a new mechanic, that sets your total number of [actions/buys/coins] equal to X.  (I’m not sure I like the wording I’m using for this mechanic; I think it’s clear but a little wordy.)  To clarify, if a card says “Set your current total number of actions equal to 3”, then you can imagine that little bubble on Goko that tells you how many actions you have left, that number is now 3, regardless of what it was before.

Sub-themes are, “stuff that deals with green/purple on top of your deck”, and I guess, a reactions sub-theme?  The reactions thing wasn’t really intentional, I just kinda noticed I had four reactions in the set and that seems like a lot.

Anyway, cards:

Quote
Ghost Town
$1 – Action
+1 Card
Set your current total number of actions equal to 2.

A simple fixed village.  I think it will take finesse to build an engine with Ghost Town as the only (or main) village.  Ideally, you want to alternate Ghost Town, draw, Ghost Town, draw, etc.  It costs $1 because it’s the sort of card you want as many of as possible if you want to get the full mileage out of it, but I’m considering putting it back at $2, just because costing $1 is sort of Poor House’s thing.

Quote
Farmer
$2 – Action
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal two actions or treasures.  Put the revealed cards into your hand.

A nice simple cheap terminal draw card.  It’s +2 cards, except the cards are guaranteed to be “good”.  I’m not sure the wording is precise as it is; it’s supposed to mean “two actions, or two treasures, or (one action and one treasure)”, but it could be interpreted as just “two actions or two treasures”.  I’m not sure if I like that it doesn’t discard the dead cards it finds.  This wording is simpler and it usually won’t make a difference, but since there’s four draw-up-to-X cards in the set, it feels like it would be nice if it skipped and discarded the dead cards.  But I think having a simpler wording is more important.

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Serf
$2 – Action-Attack
+1 Card
+1 Action
Reveal a card from your hand and put it on top of your deck.  Each other player with five or more cards in his hand discards a copy of that card (or reveals a hand with no copies of that card in it).

My attempt at a $2 attack.  You top-deck a card and they discard it.  I'm really not sure whether it’s way too strong, way too weak, or just fine.

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Vassal
$2 – Action-Reaction
+1 Card
+1 Action
Set your current total number of buys equal to 2.

When another player buys a victory card, you may discard this.  If you do, +2 cards.

This is the only “set buys equal to X” card.  The first Vassal is a Market Square, subsequent Vassals are plain cantrips.  The reaction turns it into a lab when the opponent starts greening.  It’s possible to trigger the reaction up to two times (meaningfully) in response to the same purchase, I think that’s fine and kind of funny.

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Artisan
$3 – Action-Reaction
+1 Card
+1 Action
You may discard a card.  Draw until you have 4 cards in hand.

When another player plays an Attack card, you may discard this.  If you do, gain an Artisan.

Usually cards that explicitly gain themselves have problems, because they snowball like crazy.  Rats has 20 of them in the pile and you don’t want too many of them, which makes it okay.  Artisan’s self-gaining ability only triggers when other players let it, so I think it’s okay in that regard.  I’m not sure the rest of the card is exciting enough though.  Obviously the top half is quite weak by itself, but a lot of Artisans together can work as sifters, and they’re cantrips, so at least they don’t hurt.  Printer (later in the set) likes lots of cantrips, so the self-gaining of Artisan can maybe be used to pick up cantrips fast for Printer.

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Cardinal
$3 – Action
Trash a card from your hand.  Look at a number of cards from the top of your deck equal to the cost of the trashed card, in coin.  Trash any number of them and discard the rest.

A trash-for-benefit card, where the benefit is to trash more cards.  I’m worried it’s too swingy if it misses Estate early on, and I’m also worried it compares too favorably to Doctor.  I think it’s a fun way to clean up after a Curse war though.

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Monk
$3 – Action
+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand.  The player to your left chooses a card in the supply costing exactly $1 more than it.  Gain a copy of that card, putting it into your hand.

A whacky take on the remodel-to-hand concept, the catch is that your opponent chooses the card you gain.  I imagine the power level will vary heavily with how many options there are for your opponent to choose from.  I’m really not sure if the $3 price is suitable, but I guess I’ll start testing there.

Quote
Barnhouse
$3 – Victory-Reaction
2 VP

When you would draw a card, you may reveal this from your hand.  If you do, instead of drawing that card, reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal an action or treasure.  Put that card into your hand and discard the rest.

A while ago there was a card design contest, to which I submitted a card with this reaction, but a cantrip on top.  I'm not sure if it's worth keeping since it’s wordy and clunky, but I think it's unique and interesting.  As a victory-reaction card, it skips over itself, so maybe you can get away with picking up a couple of them if you're planning on doing a lot of drawing.  It helps you to green without clogging your deck too much.  I had originally priced it at $4, but I bumped it down to $3 just because the set needed more $3's, and I expect it to be weakish anyway.

Quote
Rialto
$4 – Action
+1 Card
+$1
Set your current total number of actions equal to 1.

A nice, simple, on-theme Peddler variant.  I wanted a card that set your actions equal to 1, and I think a Peddler was a nice simple way to do it.  I think it will be on the strong side at $4, but it should be okay.

Quote
Surveyor
$4 – Action-Attack
+2 Cards
Each other player reveals the top four cards of his deck, discards two of them that you choose, and puts the rest back on top in any order.

I wanted a deck-mucking attack to make Farmer and Barnhouse more useful.  This is sort of a weaker, cheaper Rabble.

Quote
Marquess
$4 – Action
The player to your left names a card.  Gain a card costing up to $5 that is not the named card.

This is a nice simple card I came up with a while ago.  It's good whenever there are two or more $5 costs you want.  It may be particularly crazy/interesting in Duke or Rebuild games.  I'm worried it may be too strong in general.

Quote
Mountain Village
$4 – Action
+2 Actions
Look at the top card of your deck and choose one: put it into your hand, or discard it and +1 Card.

A simple spy village, not much to say about it.  It may be unexciting since Ironmonger exists.

Quote
Page
$4 – Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Each other player with 4 or more cards in his hand discards a card.

The set wanted another cantrip, and I wanted a discard attack that could discard down to three to interact with the draw-up-to-X cards.  I'm not sure this was the best way to do it, but I think it's reasonable, though maybe too similar to Urchin.

As I’ve thought about it more, I’m worried it just looks really lame next to Urchin.  On the one hand, the first Page is the same as the first Urchin, and then the second Page just makes them discard another card whereas the second Urchin gets you a Mercenary; plus, Urchin is cheaper.  On the other hand, if Urchin and Page are both on the board, I think it would be reasonable to pick up one of each, since playing a Page with an Urchin in play still gets you the Mercenary while also making the opponent(s) discard an extra card, so maybe it’s fine.  Still, I’m not really attached to Page and wouldn’t mind replacing it.

Quote
Inventor
$4 – Action
+3 Cards
You may play an action card from your hand.  Trash it or trash this.

They may self-synergize too well (you can play Inventor-Inventor-X, which is like +6 cards, +1 action, and only trash one Inventor).  Otherwise I think it's a fun, cool, whacky card.  Obviously it’s good with cheap cantrips.  I'm actually not convinced the wording works the intended way; if you don't play an action card with Inventor, you're supposed to have to trash the Inventor (so it's not strictly better than Smithy), but I think you have the option to choose "Trash it" even if "it" doesn't exist.  Any wording suggestions would be appreciated.

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Aqueduct
$4 – Action-Reaction
Victory cards cost $2 less (but not less than $0).

When another player gains a card, you may reveal this from your hand.  If you do, he discards the top card of his deck and puts the gained card on top of his deck.

I really liked the bottom-half, meant to punish greening and combo with junking attacks.  The top half started out as a Curser so that there would be self-synergy, but then it just looked like an awkward Sea Hag.  So instead, the top half makes it easier to green, and now it anti-synergizes with the bottom half, in the sense that other players can punish you for making use of the top half.  TR-TR-Aqueduct-Aqueduct makes Provinces cost $0, but you need your own +buy card to take advantage of it, so I hope that's okay?  I like how with Vassal it means you can’t get more than 2 Provinces in one turn.  The reason for the Bridge-style thronable wording is because I didn't want all of the text on the card to come below a line, or to have both the "main part" and the reaction part to be together below a line; I would prefer it to be non-thronable.  Parade-Aqueduct is crazy.

I think it’s weird if the opponent wants to trash a card with Watchtower and you want to make them top-deck it with Aqueduct, but I assume that just resolves in player order, starting with the player taking his turn?

Quote
Amulet
$5 – Treasure
Set you current total number of coin equal to $4.

Simple on-theme treasure card.  You want it in decks without virtual coin.  I had it set $ equal to 3, but that just seemed really weak (probably on par with the other $5 treasures, which are all weak (obviously not counting IGG)).

Quote
Bandit
$5 – Action-Attack
+$2
Each other player with five or more cards in his hand trashes a card from it.  If it costs $2 or less, he gains a Curse.

If they trash Copper, it's like a Cutpurse-Swindler.  If they trash Estate, it's like -2 VP.  I'm worried it's too nasty, since both of those are pretty bad, and it's probably worse if it hits a $3+ card.  But, it's completely blocked if the opponent has a curse in hand (and even benefits them if the curses are out).  Maybe it should return to the supply instead of trashing?

Quote
Parade
$5 – Action
You may play an action card from your hand twice.  If you didn’t, draw until you have 6 cards in hand.

This card has really nice self-synergy: you play one as a throne on another, using it to throne a non-drawing card, and then draw back up; or you throne one to draw with another so you have more cards in hand to throne.  The reason that I think the self-synergy here is okay (whereas the self-synergy on cards like Minion can lead to dull games) is that Parade really needs other cards to work; a deck of just Parades doesn't do anything Watchtower can't do (I know that’s not 100% true but close).  It's a support card for an engine.

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Dungeon
$5 – Victory-Action
+1 Action
Trash up to three cards from your hand.

Worth [VP] equal to the cost of the lowest-costing card in your deck, in coin.

I submitted this card to the Intrigue card design contest, and it did reasonably well.  It hasn't changed since then.  Some people liked it, some didn't, I like it but I understand people's complaints about it.  I still think it's a nice new alt-VP card.

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Lord
$5 – Action
+3 Cards
+1 Buy

When you discard this from play, if you didn’t buy a card costing $5 or more this turn, you may put it on top of your deck.

A simple Smithy+, it gives you +buy so that the bottom half is easier to trigger.  It's meant to encourage engines.

Quote
Jubilee
$5 – Action
+$2
Set your current total number of actions equal to 3.

Similar to Festival, without the +buy but giving you more actions if used correctly (and fewer if used incorrectly).  It's also a disappearing village, meant to interact with the draw-up-to-X cards in the set.  I actually think a Jubilee-Watchtower engine is a lot more interesting than a Festival-Watchtower engine, because in the former there’s the question of “do I play Jubilee or Watchtower first?” (playing Jubilee first gets you more cards, while playing Watchtower first gets you more actions), while in the latter you just always play Festivals before Watchtowers whenever possible.

Quote
Scholar
$5 – Action
+1 Action
Draw until you have 7 cards in hand.  Each other player draws a card.

The first one is like a double-lab for you and a lab for everyone else, but you can follow it with a couple Bandits or Serfs (or a Parade of Bandits/Serfs) for extra damage.  I like how it anti-synergizes against itself (like Vault).

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Scribe
$5 – Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Discard any number of cards.  +$1 per card discarded.

I wanted a discard-for-benefit card, to combo with the draw-up-to-X cards.  It made sense to make it non-terminal so that you could easily follow it with draw-up-to-X, but I feel like maybe someone has done this exact idea already?  It looks familiar (and obv. it’s really similar to Vault)…

Quote
Harbinger
$6 – Action-Attack
+2 Actions
+2 Buys
Each other player gains a Curse.

Specifically designed to combo with Aqueduct; the actions help you play lots of Aqueducts, the buys help you buy lots of cheap Provinces, and the curse can be top-decked by an Aqueduct in hand.  It's the most expensive curser, and it doesn’t draw, so I think it’s okay that it’s non-terminal.  I expect that it’s on the weak side, which I think is great, since it’s nice to have a curser that’s not a must-buy in every game (yes I know not all cursers are must-buys in every game, but they tend to be way more powerful than other cards on average).  Also I think it’s okay that it’s weak, because it’s also a village and a source of +buy, so there are good reasons to buy it even with other cursers on the board (though it is quite expensive to be just a +buy village).  But it may be even weaker than I’m anticipating, not sure.

Quote
Printer
$6 – Action
+1 Action

While this is in play, when you play an action card, +1 Card.

This (along with Inventor maybe?) is the set’s card of insanity.  I may end up cutting it just because of the sheer crazy factor.  I imagine it will be ignorable on boards where you’re not planning to play a lot of actions every turn; probably it will be ignorable roughly when and only when King’s Court is ignorable.  I expect that even just Scheme-Printer will be a mega powerhouse combo (not only is Printer the sort of card you want to play as early in the turn as possible, but top-decking a bunch of cantrips (excess Schemes) is exactly what Printer wants); and then there’s Printer-KC-Scheme, which is just, like, start every turn with 3 actions and a 9-card hand.

Anyway, I think Printer will be fun, but it may be insanely strong, and it may just be too crazy.  And maybe it won’t be fun if it means “first player to the Printers wins”.  Oh, and there’s also this concern where, a player may forget (or “forget”) to draw cards from Printer in a case where it would be advantageous for him not to draw cards, and then other players are supposed to catch him.  I know cards aren’t supposed to do that, that’s sort of a result of Printer’s “while this is in play, when X, do Y” nature.  It could be fixed I guess by saying “you may draw card”, but I prefer less text.


So anyway, that’s all the cards.  Right now I think the distribution of card costs and functions is fine, except maybe too many reactions if that’s a thing?  I’m open to any suggestions, comments, questions, etc., like I said most of these have had no playtesting, and I’m hoping to get some feedback regarding any changes that should be made before I make images, print them, and start playtesting.  Thanks in advance!
« Last Edit: July 29, 2014, 05:59:23 pm by scott_pilgrim »
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silverspawn

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Re: Dominion: Fiefdom
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2014, 06:59:47 pm »
+1

I've considered something like that before, but I thought it was too confusing and not worth it for a single card. It might be really cool as a theme though.

Quote
Ghost Town
$1 – Action
+1 Card
Set your current total number of actions equal to 2.
Yea, that's pretty much the most obvious idea after choosing the theme.  I would test it at 2$

Quote
Farmer
$2 – Action
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal two actions or treasures.  Put the revealed cards into your hand.
You say that having a simpler wording is more important, but you need to specify where the cards go. And you also need to specify that it's two (actions or treasures). It's inevitably going to be longer, unless you want to use "dig"

You could do it like so:
Quote
Do this twice: reveal cards from your deck until you reveal an Action or Treasure card. Put both cards into your hand and discard the rest

The card seems alright, but not very exciting.



Quote
Serf
$2 – Action-Attack
+1 Card
+1 Action
Reveal a card from your hand and put it on top of your deck.  Each other player with five or more cards in his hand discards a copy of that card (or reveals a hand with no copies of that card in it).
Not a fan. You will want to target strong cards, and then it's basically a super swingy pillage that also harms yourself.

Quote
Vassal
$2 – Action-Reaction
+1 Card
+1 Action
Set your current total number of buys equal to 2.

When another player buys a victory card, you may discard this.  If you do, +2 cards.
The reaction is interesting. The card not so much. it's the exact same take on Market Square that Ghost Town had on village, but it's far less interesting with buys, because there is no way to use up buys during your action phase, so you'll probably just accept that you can't buy more than two cards each turn when you play with this.


Quote
Artisan
$3 – Action-Reaction
+1 Card
+1 Action
You may discard a card.  Draw until you have 4 cards in hand.

When another player plays an Attack card, you may discard this.  If you do, gain an Artisan.
I don't see this working. Draw up to 4 is just really weak. One of them does nothing, because discarding will only get you a 4 card hand, so you need at least two, in which case you will play 2 cards, discard 2 cards, and draw 3, making it worse than warehouse. It will be good against discard attacks, but there are only a couple of them, and most of the times none of them will be around.

You can't change it to 5 either, at least not without changing something else,  that would be too good.

Quote
Cardinal
$3 – Action
Trash a card from your hand.  Look at a number of cards from the top of your deck equal to the cost of the trashed card, in coin.  Trash any number of them and discard the rest.
pretty sure that's just too strong. I trash an estate, now I reveal two cards, I trash them both. I now trashed 3 cards. the only other cards that have a power equivalent to that are
-> chapel, which is broken and also ruins your current turn
-> ambassador, which is super strong and also ruins your current turn
-> doctor, which only works if you are very lucky.

Quote
Monk
$3 – Action
+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand.  The player to your left chosses a card in the supply costing exactly $1 more than it.  Gain a copy of that card, putting it into your hand.
That's just really weak. You can't use it as a trash for benefit, as there will almost always be a bad card for your enemy to choose, and to clean up your deck it's very slow. Hermit is so much better than this, terminal or not.

Quote
Barnhouse
$3 – Victory-Reaction
2 VP

When you would draw a card, you may reveal this from your hand.  If you do, instead of drawing that card, reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal an action or treasure.  Put that card into your hand and discard the rest.
You worry too much about cards  being wordy. This is a cool idea. It also seems reasonably strong to me.


Quote
Rialto
$4 – Action
+1 Card
+$1
Set your current total number of actions equal to 1.
I don't think this is very strong at 4$. Peddler effect is worth 4$, and this is peddler effect with a penalty. I'm also not very optimistic about it. It looks nice, but my fear is that it will play out pretty much exactly like a 4$ peddler, and whenever it doesn't, it means that you already played a village, then played a rialto drawing your smithy, which will just be frustrating.

Quote
Surveyor
$4 – Action-Attack
+2 Cards
Each other player reveals the top four cards of his deck, discards two of them that you choose, and puts the rest back on top in any order.

Mh, sorry but I'm not seeing it. The attack is a lot stronger than you think, because unlike rabble, you don't have to discard coppers, which usually helps your opponent. it's also very close to oracle, but most likely better. I don't think I would ever open oracle over this (unless I have to because it costs 4$), and probably not buy it later either. Again, the attack is just really strong, it's almost a pillage for your opponents next hand.

Quote
Marquess
$4 – Action
The player to your left names a card.  Gain a card costing up to $5 that is not the named card.
Somewhat interesting idea. You say that ít might be too strong as is, I think so too. If there are 2 5's you want it's just crazy, if not it's probably still as good as a workshop. But it might be tweaked into a good card.

Quote
Mountain Village
$4 – Action
+2 Actions
Look at the top card of your deck and choose one: put it into your hand, or discard it and +1 Card.
I'm not worried about Ironmonger so much as I am about Farming Village. Village that draws one card but not a bad one has really been done already.

Quote
Page
$4 – Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Each other player with 4 or more cards in his hand discards a card.
This is just really bland. The only reason you buy urchin is because you want a merc. And compare it to militia, a cantrip is usually like a non-existent card in your deck, so it's worse than a silver, as you usually want to have silver in the beginning. therefore, even if it discarded to 3 directly, you would still rather open militia. Yes, sometimes discard attacks are really strong and it's a big advantage if they're not terminal, and in those games you would buy Page, but for the most part, this is ignorable. I would honestly just drop it.


Quote
Inventor
$4 – Action
+3 Cards
You may play an action card from your hand.  Trash it or trash this.
Please don't praise your own cards... but yea, this might work. Super strong with ruins/Squires, not so great otherwise. Smithy is way better for BM, probably for engines too. I'd test it at 3$, and maybe with +4cards, or with another bonus. My biggest concern is that it's too situational.

Quote
Aqueduct
$4 – Action-Reaction
Victory cards cost $2 less (but not less than $0).

When another player gains a card, you may reveal this from your hand.  If you do, he discards the top card of his deck and puts the gained card on top of his deck.
Mh. A Bureaucrat attack as a reaction. It might be cool, but I'm not feeling the top half. Mostly that's just a terminal silver that only works for Victory cards, and it creates some weird remodeling because victory cards are now cheaper compared to action and treasure cads. And it needs to be "2$ less this turn."

Quote
Amulet
$5 – Treasure
Set you current total number of coin equal to $4.
Doesn't this make the game less fun in pretty much any way? Without virtual coin, it's automatically (a lot) better than gold, but only if you don't already have copies of it. It doesn't combo with pretty  much anything, but anti-combos with a lot of things, and mostly things that tend to be interesting (e.g. virtual coin). Seems like a dead end to me.


Quote
Bandit
$5 – Action-Attack
+$2
Each other player with five or more cards in his hand trashes a card from it.  If it costs $2 or less, he gains a Curse.
I have a card in my set, "+2$, each other player trashes a card costing 3$ or more from his hand or gains a curse. {{and some minor other stuff}}" for 5$. This is very similar, but weaker, because you only have to exchange bad cards instead of gaining bad cards. My card is already weak though, it was designed to be a weak junker and testing has pretty much confirmed that. If I hadn't made that card, I might suggest now that you can't trash cards costing 2$ or less, but then it would be almost identical. I like the idea though (obviously). There is no copyright on fanmade cards, so there's nothing stopping you from keeping this one in your set (and I don't mind anyway). One problem that my card had and yours will have too, is that it drags games out for too long (especially 4p), since you're always trashing opponents cards and the curses take forever to run out. That's why I have tweaked my card so that it always removes curses from the supply.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2014, 07:01:55 pm by silverspawn »
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mail-mi

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Re: Dominion: Fiefdom
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2014, 07:22:56 pm »
+1

Quote
Farmer
$2 – Action
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal two actions or treasures.  Put the revealed cards into your hand.

isn't this, like, strictly better than adventurer?
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Re: Dominion: Fiefdom
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2014, 07:35:40 pm »
+1

Serf $2 – Action-Attack
+1 Card
+1 Action
Reveal a card from your hand and put it on top of your deck.  Each other player with five or more cards in his hand discards a copy of that card (or reveals a hand with no copies of that card in it).

I think this is fine, but you should make it a "may" or you might often run into situations where you dont even want to play it.
Also if it turns out to be too weak you could make it a choice between "you topdeck, the others discart" and "you discart, the others topdeck", might be too strong then at $2 though.

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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Dominion: Fiefdom
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2014, 07:53:28 pm »
0

Quote
Serf
$2 – Action-Attack
+1 Card
+1 Action
Reveal a card from your hand and put it on top of your deck.  Each other player with five or more cards in his hand discards a copy of that card (or reveals a hand with no copies of that card in it).
Not a fan. You will want to target strong cards, and then it's basically a super swingy pillage that also harms yourself.

You might be right, but I think it's at least worth testing.

Quote
Vassal
$2 – Action-Reaction
+1 Card
+1 Action
Set your current total number of buys equal to 2.

When another player buys a victory card, you may discard this.  If you do, +2 cards.
The reaction is interesting. The card not so much. it's the exact same take on Market Square that Ghost Town had on village, but it's far less interesting with buys, because there is no way to use up buys during your action phase, so you'll probably just accept that you can't buy more than two cards each turn when you play with this.

I agree the concept is not as exciting for buys as it is for actions, which is why there's only one card that does it for buys.  But I think it's fine for one card to do that, and I kind of like the idea of having a cantrip +buy that doesn't end up in you having effectively unlimited buys at the end of your turn.

Quote
Cardinal
$3 – Action
Trash a card from your hand.  Look at a number of cards from the top of your deck equal to the cost of the trashed card, in coin.  Trash any number of them and discard the rest.
pretty sure that's just too strong. I trash an estate, now I reveal two cards, I trash them both. I now trashed 3 cards. the only other cards that have a power equivalent to that are
-> chapel, which is broken and also ruins your current turn
-> ambassador, which is super strong and also ruins your current turn
-> doctor, which only works if you are very lucky.

You might be right, not sure.  Would it be better to start testing at $4?

Quote
Monk
$3 – Action
+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand.  The player to your left chosses a card in the supply costing exactly $1 more than it.  Gain a copy of that card, putting it into your hand.
That's just really weak. You can't use it as a trash for benefit, as there will almost always be a bad card for your enemy to choose, and to clean up your deck it's very slow. Hermit is so much better than this, terminal or not.

Huh, it's not obvious to me that it's weak.  I would think a lot of the time you'll prefer any card costing $x to the card you choose to trash costing $x-1, and gaining it to hand make it effectively a cantrip, so a card and an action better than hermit in that regard.  You could be right, I'm just not convinced (and maybe I will be after testing).

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Rialto
$4 – Action
+1 Card
+$1
Set your current total number of actions equal to 1.
I don't think this is very strong at 4$. Peddler effect is worth 4$, and this is peddler effect with a penalty. I'm also not very optimistic about it. It looks nice, but my fear is that it will play out pretty much exactly like a 4$ peddler, and whenever it doesn't, it means that you already played a village, then played a rialto drawing your smithy, which will just be frustrating.

I think Peddler is quite strong at $4.  The thing about "set actions equal to 1" is that, as you say, it only matters when it hurts you, and that might make it frustrating.  But I'm imagining it as sort of being a variant on being terminal, like you have Rialto, and two terminal silvers in hand, with two actions left.  You can play Rialto-terminal silver, or both terminal silvers.  So I think there are cases where it matters other than "draw Smithy with Rialto", and those cases are not so much frustrating as they are, that's just the nature of the "set actions equal to 1" mechanic, like how the nature of being terminal is you can't always play all of them.

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Surveyor
$4 – Action-Attack
+2 Cards
Each other player reveals the top four cards of his deck, discards two of them that you choose, and puts the rest back on top in any order.

Mh, sorry but I'm not seeing it. The attack is a lot stronger than you think, because unlike rabble, you don't have to discard coppers, which usually helps your opponent. it's also very close to oracle, but most likely better. I don't think I would ever open oracle over this (unless I have to because it costs 4$), and probably not buy it later either. Again, the attack is just really strong, it's almost a pillage for your opponents next hand.

Yeah, I guess I didn't think about comparing it to Oracle.  I don't think it's really comparable to pillage, because pillage doesn't let the opponent draw back up afterward.  I guess I imagined them being played in chains, in which case I think Rabble is much stronger, since it has the potential to top-deck up to three green cards, and usually gets to two if you're playing enough of them.  A single Surveyor is probably stronger than a single Rabble though (in terms of the attack), but I'm hoping the reduced draw makes it okay for $4?  I don't know though.

Quote
Mountain Village
$4 – Action
+2 Actions
Look at the top card of your deck and choose one: put it into your hand, or discard it and +1 Card.
I'm not worried about Ironmonger so much as I am about Farming Village. Village that draws one card but not a bad one has really been done already.

Hmm, I thought about Farming Village and thought this was different enough to be interesting.  Actually Farming Village would fit better in this role than Mountain Village I think, but obv. it already exists and I can't do anything about that.

Quote
Inventor
$4 – Action
+3 Cards
You may play an action card from your hand.  Trash it or trash this.
Please don't praise your own cards... but yea, this might work. Super strong with ruins/Squires, not so great otherwise. Smithy is way better for BM, probably for engines too. I'd test it at 3$, and maybe with +4cards, or with another bonus. My biggest concern is that it's too situational.

I didn't mean to praise it, I guess to me "fun", "cool", and "whacky" don't necessarily mean it's a good card.  I just meant it as, hey here's something different and I think it's kind of exciting.

My intuition was that it was probably weak too, but I kept thinking the self-synergy would be enough to justify the $4 cost.

Quote
Amulet
$5 – Treasure
Set you current total number of coin equal to $4.
Doesn't this make the game less fun in pretty much any way? Without virtual coin, it's automatically (a lot) better than gold, but only if you don't already have copies of it. It doesn't combo with pretty  much anything, but anti-combos with a lot of things, and mostly things that tend to be interesting (e.g. virtual coin). Seems like a dead end to me.

You're probably right.  I wanted a treasure, and I wanted one "set $ equal to X" card, so it seemed like a natural fit.

Quote
Bandit
$5 – Action-Attack
+$2
Each other player with five or more cards in his hand trashes a card from it.  If it costs $2 or less, he gains a Curse.
I have a card in my set, "+2$, each other player trashes a card costing 3$ or more from his hand or gains a curse. {{and some minor other stuff}}" for 5$. This is very similar, but weaker, because you only have to exchange bad cards instead of gaining bad cards. My card is already weak though, it was designed to be a weak junker and testing has pretty much confirmed that. If I hadn't made that card, I might suggest now that you can't trash cards costing 2$ or less, but then it would be almost identical. I like the idea though (obviously). There is no copyright on fanmade cards, so there's nothing stopping you from keeping this one in your set (and I don't mind anyway). One problem that my card had and yours will have too, is that it drags games out for too long (especially 4p), since you're always trashing opponents cards and the curses take forever to run out. That's why I have tweaked my card so that it always removes curses from the supply.

Oh, thanks for pointing out your similar card.  I think I had seen it before but forgotten about it, and I didn't mean to steal the idea.  I'm surprised it's weak, but maybe I'll change the vanilla bonus.  I kind of like the whole "trash Coppers/Estates for Curses" thing, I also think it's kind of cool that it's a discard attack, trashing attack, and junking attack all in one without being wordy.  Maybe it could top-deck gained curses, then it's all four of the main kind of attacks in one and a little stronger?

Thanks for the feedback!
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Dominion: Fiefdom
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2014, 07:57:29 pm »
0

Quote
Farmer
$2 – Action
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal two actions or treasures.  Put the revealed cards into your hand.

isn't this, like, strictly better than adventurer?

Man, why does Adventurer have to exist.  Yeah, I didn't even think about that.  It's worse if it makes you draw actions dead rather than skipping them, which I guess is supposed to be the appeal of Adventurer, but it's hard to tell if being better than Adventurer is a problem because, like, Smithy is obv. way better than Adventurer too, it's just that it doesn't look quite as similar as Farmer does.
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silverspawn

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Re: Dominion: Fiefdom (WIP)
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2014, 08:42:41 pm »
+1

I don't think adventurer is a problem. Adventurer is supposed to be good because it will only draw cards that you can use, your card can draw actions. Adventurer itself is awful, but your card won't make it any less likely that it's used than smithy does.

Quote
I'm surprised it's weak
well, just compare it to witch and mountebank. witch always gives you a curse, so the attack is a lot better, and +2 cards are worse than +2$ (on a junker), but not that much worse. and mountebank is even strictly better, as trashing and getting a new curse is identical to preventing the attack by discarding a curse.

Quote
You might be right, not sure.  Would it be better to start testing at $4?
no, 3$ and 4$ is usually a very small difference. if it costs 4$, you can still couple it with silver, which is what matters. but you could try tweaking it in a different way.

Quote
Huh, it's not obvious to me that it's weak.  I would think a lot of the time you'll prefer any card costing $x to the card you choose to trash costing $x-1, and gaining it to hand make it effectively a cantrip, so a card and an action better than hermit in that regard.  You could be right, I'm just not convinced (and maybe I will be after testing).
oh my bad, i overlooked the "putting it into your hand" part. In that case it's a lot stronger than i thought, but it still has some problems. It's just that there are bad cards around in a lot of games at different price levels. Like, potion, baron, scout, counting house, harvest, ... I'd say it's likely that at least two price points have cards that are worse than nothing for your deck. However, 3$ may the the price were it's least likely to have bad cards, and trashing an estate to gain a silver into your hand, and even non-terminal, is very good. I could see it being bought just for that, but it would be said if you never use it for other cards. You could try "trash a card from your hand. Name a card. Gain a card costing exactly 1$ more than the trashed card, other than the named card, that the played to your left chooses." I have no idea how strong that would be.

Quote
My intuition was that it was probably weak too, but I kept thinking the self-synergy would be enough to justify the $4 cost.
this is a case where the difference between 3$ and 4$ actually matters, because you want a lot of them and it's not out of question to buy two in a turn, so if you want to buff it, making it cost 3$ is the first thing to do.

okay, i'll also go through the remaining cards

Quote
Parade
$5 – Action
You may play an action card from your hand twice.  If you didn’t, draw until you have 6 cards in hand.
A strong TR variant for 5$. I kinda like it. It will be just as good as TR a lot of times, but that's completely fine, even for a 5$. It won't be useless if you don't draw it with support, which is nice

Throne room used to be 3$, and Donald X has made a card "Choose one: cantrip; or throne" for 4$. Then TR went to 4$ and that one died. This is similar to the cantrip or TR, probably stronger.

Quote
Dungeon
$5 – Victory-Action
+1 Action
Trash up to three cards from your hand.

Worth [VP] equal to the cost of the lowest-costing card in your deck, in coin.
A non-terminal chapel that can be worth a duchy at the end of the game, sometimes even more. it's most similar to count, it's about as strong in trashing (both usually get rid of 3 cards), and instead of doing what count does after you trashed down, this can be a duchy. Count can gain duchies though, but this is non terminal, which is nice. seems worth testing.

Quote
Lord
$5 – Action
+3 Cards
+1 Buy

When you discard this from play, if you didn’t buy a card costing $5 or more this turn, you may put it on top of your deck.
That's pretty cute. It's probably my favorite from this set. It can't scheme itself when you buy another copy of it, so that's interesting. Rewards deck tracking too.

Quote
Jubilee
$5 – Action
+$2
Set your current total number of actions equal to 3.
It seems too similar to festival to me. It's true that turning it into a watchtower engine is tricky though, it's not uncommon to have a hand with 3 festivals and a watchtower, that's suddenly a lot less good with this card. 3 Actions is still a lot though, so I imagine you usually just play all jubilees before drawing, though not always. It don't see it being that interesting, but it might be.
Also, LFN has made a card called Jubilee. Like with Inquisition, you're not obligated to change the name, but you might want to, especially because it's the most well known non-official expansion.

Quote
Scholar
$5 – Action
+1 Action
Draw until you have 7 cards in hand.  Each other player draws a card.
Well, I just really don't like non-terminal discard-for-coin or draw-to-x, and this card is no exception. What I think it'll do is simplify engine building, but that might be a personal taste. Ideas like this keep popping up and I never liked them, so that's that. you can still test it.

Quote
Scribe
$5 – Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Discard any number of cards.  +$1 per card discarded.
uww, I haven't even read this one as I commented about the last one. but what I said there also applies here.

Quote
Harbinger
$6 – Action-Attack
+2 Actions
+2 Buys
Each other player gains a Curse.
No, I don't think this works. There's a reason junkers usually provide +cards or +$ rather than +action or +buy. The first two are resources by themselves, the last two are setups. Like, imagine a 3player game without trashing. everyone goes harbingers, because there is no trashing. You have to open double silver to get there, and then there will be lots of junk. That's just not the kind of game where you need a lot of buys or actions. that goes against the idea of junking.

Quote
Printer
$6 – Action
+1 Action

While this is in play, when you play an action card, +1 Card.
The reason I don't think this is a good idea isn't that it's too strong, it's that it's too unreliable. Like, if I want to draw my whole deck, I can buy a village and smithy engine. I now have to have at least one village in my hand and at least one draw in my hand or on top of my deck to get things going. If this card is around, I can instead build a Printer/lots of cheap cantrips engine. the strength now heavily depends on whether or not Printer is in my start hand, or how soon I will draw it. If you have two, that aspect will be somewhat weakened, but it'll still be there, and you usually won't get more than 2, because it's so expensive. I just feel like it's going to cause frustration.

for what it's worth, I don't think anyone will forget drawing cards for it.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2014, 09:20:25 pm by silverspawn »
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jamespotter

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Re: Dominion: Fiefdom
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2014, 09:30:19 am »
+1


Quote
Marquess
$4 – Action
The player to your left names a card.  Gain a card costing up to $5 that is not the named card.
Somewhat interesting idea. You say that ít might be too strong as is, I think so too. If there are 2 5's you want it's just crazy, if not it's probably still as good as a workshop. But it might be tweaked into a good card.

I agree with silverspawn's take on this card. A possible fix is using the "set" theme to nerf it...example: "set your actions/buys/$ to 0." This also might involve price adjusting the card, but I think it expands your set theme while maintaining a unique card idea.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Fiefdom
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2014, 01:07:36 pm »
+1

Quote
Farmer
$2 – Action
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal two actions or treasures.  Put the revealed cards into your hand.

isn't this, like, strictly better than adventurer?

Man, why does Adventurer have to exist.  Yeah, I didn't even think about that.  It's worse if it makes you draw actions dead rather than skipping them, which I guess is supposed to be the appeal of Adventurer, but it's hard to tell if being better than Adventurer is a problem because, like, Smithy is obv. way better than Adventurer too, it's just that it doesn't look quite as similar as Farmer does.

I don't think there's an issue of being strictly better than Adventurer, because sometimes treasure is better than actions. Especially since it's terminal. However, it does possibly give away that this might be very strong for a $2. Granted, Adventurer is very weak for a $6, but that's a HUGE price gap for something that will usually be better than Adventurer.
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mail-mi

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Re: Dominion: Fiefdom
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2014, 04:20:30 pm »
+1

Quote
Farmer
$2 – Action
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal two actions or treasures.  Put the revealed cards into your hand.

isn't this, like, strictly better than adventurer?

Man, why does Adventurer have to exist.  Yeah, I didn't even think about that.  It's worse if it makes you draw actions dead rather than skipping them, which I guess is supposed to be the appeal of Adventurer, but it's hard to tell if being better than Adventurer is a problem because, like, Smithy is obv. way better than Adventurer too, it's just that it doesn't look quite as similar as Farmer does.

I don't think there's an issue of being strictly better than Adventurer, because sometimes treasure is better than actions. Especially since it's terminal. However, it does possibly give away that this might be very strong for a $2. Granted, Adventurer is very weak for a $6, but that's a HUGE price gap for something that will usually be better than Adventurer.
also, you need to specify what happens to the other revealed cards.
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Dominion: Fiefdom
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2014, 05:39:58 pm »
0

Quote
Farmer
$2 – Action
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal two actions or treasures.  Put the revealed cards into your hand.

isn't this, like, strictly better than adventurer?

Man, why does Adventurer have to exist.  Yeah, I didn't even think about that.  It's worse if it makes you draw actions dead rather than skipping them, which I guess is supposed to be the appeal of Adventurer, but it's hard to tell if being better than Adventurer is a problem because, like, Smithy is obv. way better than Adventurer too, it's just that it doesn't look quite as similar as Farmer does.

I don't think there's an issue of being strictly better than Adventurer, because sometimes treasure is better than actions. Especially since it's terminal. However, it does possibly give away that this might be very strong for a $2. Granted, Adventurer is very weak for a $6, but that's a HUGE price gap for something that will usually be better than Adventurer.
also, you need to specify what happens to the other revealed cards.

They all go into your hand.  I think that's clear from the wording; if I meant otherwise, it would say "put the revealed actions and treasures into your hand and discard the rest", right?  Which I actually slightly prefer, except that it's more text and it's unlikely to matter.
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mail-mi

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Re: Dominion: Fiefdom
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2014, 06:01:23 pm »
0

Quote
Farmer
$2 – Action
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal two actions or treasures.  Put the revealed cards into your hand.

isn't this, like, strictly better than adventurer?

Man, why does Adventurer have to exist.  Yeah, I didn't even think about that.  It's worse if it makes you draw actions dead rather than skipping them, which I guess is supposed to be the appeal of Adventurer, but it's hard to tell if being better than Adventurer is a problem because, like, Smithy is obv. way better than Adventurer too, it's just that it doesn't look quite as similar as Farmer does.

I don't think there's an issue of being strictly better than Adventurer, because sometimes treasure is better than actions. Especially since it's terminal. However, it does possibly give away that this might be very strong for a $2. Granted, Adventurer is very weak for a $6, but that's a HUGE price gap for something that will usually be better than Adventurer.
also, you need to specify what happens to the other revealed cards.

They all go into your hand.  I think that's clear from the wording; if I meant otherwise, it would say "put the revealed actions and treasures into your hand and discard the rest", right?  Which I actually slightly prefer, except that it's more text and it's unlikely to matter.
oh i missed that. never mind.
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