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Author Topic: How do you play 4 player Dominion?  (Read 5982 times)

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SirD

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How do you play 4 player Dominion?
« on: September 21, 2014, 04:56:12 am »
+1

Hello,

man, how do you play 4 player Dominion? The game ends so fast that you have to be extremely cautious of not overbuilding. Some slower cards of Dominion (Golem) are mostly unusable and trashing isn't that good if it takes too long. Are there any articles about this? I couldn't find any. Are there some general rules other than that the pace is accelerated? 
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Davio

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Re: How do you play 4 player Dominion?
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2014, 05:32:55 am »
+1

You shouldn't play 4p, 3p is the optimal number for real life play for me.

Otherwise, mainly big money with the usual good cards thrown in.
There are only 3 Provinces per player as opposed to 3p and 2p and that makes a big difference.
Also, if a pile is split evenly, you can only expect to get 2.5 card, not quite enough for a Minion stack.
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SirD

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Re: How do you play 4 player Dominion?
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2014, 07:35:41 am »
0

You shouldn't play 4p
This is well stated (but sometimes I have to, you know, family)

Otherwise, mainly big money with the usual good cards thrown in.
I playtested a little and this seems to be right. Thank you!
« Last Edit: September 21, 2014, 07:37:59 am by SirD »
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Kirian

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Re: How do you play 4 player Dominion?
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2014, 09:51:09 am »
+4

Casually.

I usually don't even attempt to track points if I'm playing more than 2p.  It becomes a social game.
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Re: How do you play 4 player Dominion?
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2014, 10:23:17 am »
+1

i had to play 4p base yesterday evening *shudder*. didn't win any game too.

I wouldn't try to think too much about strategy. say it works and you win a lot - is that really more fun? sounds like bad news for the people playing with you.

my experience is, it's just really random. the first game, there was witch/garden/workshop/no trashing, so i thought, well 4 player witches make curses everywhere bad is bad news deck will everyone have shitty and bad, so i go gardens. another player, who was the second most experienced thought the same, and also went for gardens. the other two went for a semi engine/BM, but didn't buy a lot of witches for some reason. the garden players finished on spots 3 and 4.

but yea, you only get 2,5 action cards in an even split, so don't try anything that requires skill. and, do convince everyone to play for 4 piles instead of 3. the three pile ruling is horrible for 4p.

Polk5440

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Re: How do you play 4 player Dominion?
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2014, 10:38:03 am »
+3

When playing 4 player in person, the one suggestion I would make is to not go with a fully random kingdom. Randomly generate, but then tweak. (e.g.If you don't want a slog, don't play Mountebank.) When playing multiple games, swap out a couple cards rather than re-randomizing completely every game. Go with kingdoms that appear weak-ish, rather than where all 10 kingdom cards feed into this super-engine you would like to play in 2P. Consider including some kind of alt VP.

On strategy:

Stick with simple decks. Note, not necessarily just big money (even though big money is usually better), just avoid big engine that rely on playing tons of cards every turn to get anywhere. They are viable less often than in 2P. If your proposed engine requires you grabbing half or more of 3 or 4 stacks, then you are very likely going to be beat by another player if more than one of you goes for the engine. Engines that rely on really thin decks (not a lot of cards) with lots of trashing are still viable. Or decks that are more bloated but aim to play a couple key cards a turn are okay, too.

Engine decks that require a lot of cards are hurt because you cannot control the endgame like in 2P. In my play group, if one of us undertakes a dubious long-game engine, the other 3 players will start attacking piles after figuring out what's coming. Even if you've found "the deck", you are still racing, and the other players can more easily correct their play than in 2P.

You have to pull the trigger on the engine earlier than you would in 2P, so engines that require "overbuilding" are just not going to work. Need 6 or 7 bridges to empty VP piles in one turn? Don't count on getting them. Your deck better be able to do something if you only get 3, instead.

Slogs are more likely because of the stackable nature of a lot of attacks. (Mountebank means slog. Almost always.) Alt VP is usually more viable as an actual alternative strategy. The alt vp dynamics are usually more interesting, too.

"Bad" cards become much better (Except Scout. It's still bad), especially the treasure attacks, and you often get a chance to build decks you otherwise wouldn't in 2P. There are great 4p games I've played with Pirate Ship, Noble Brigand, Thief, etc. Playing with 3-5 players really shows that the weak treasure and treasure attack cards are much more balanced for those games even though they are usually pretty bad in 2P.

Really, really watch out for piles.

I also rarely count except on a very superficial level because there is much less you can do to control the end of the game.
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Polk5440

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Re: How do you play 4 player Dominion?
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2014, 10:43:30 am »
+1

my experience is, it's just really random. the first game, there was witch/garden/workshop/no trashing, so i thought, well 4 player witches make curses everywhere bad is bad news deck will everyone have shitty and bad, so i go gardens. another player, who was the second most experienced thought the same, and also went for gardens. the other two went for a semi engine/BM, but didn't buy a lot of witches for some reason. the garden players finished on spots 3 and 4.

Good thing they didn't go witch. Your gardens plan relies on them doing so. Workshop Gardens usually doesn't work out if another player goes for it, too, and you are NOT getting junk thrown at you. You have to get more points than the other person while running piles out quickly (otherwise province players will pull ahead and you cannot catch up). It's a really tough balance.

You really have to adjust in 4 players to what others are doing. I would have not gone for Gardens right away, but gone for provinces. Especially if workshop can grab some engine pieces, instead. I would switch and go for more workshop-gardens later if I started getting a lot of junk thrown at me.

... or one persons gardens and no one else counters. It's not so easy to play.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2014, 10:47:16 am by Polk5440 »
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soulnet

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Re: How do you play 4 player Dominion?
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2014, 10:45:01 am »
+2

You can build strong engines, but there is certainly a lower threshold. If there is Chapel, there is certainly time for a good engine. Same with Ambassador (although, is likely that everyone goes for it and it turns into a slog). Colonies help a good deal, you may want to always play with Colonies, for instance, if you prefer the game to last longer.

Also, you can play two 2p games and rotate. In my group of friends, after a couple of times playing 4p, it quickly turned into two 2p (mainly because it is annoying to wait so long for your turn).
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Davio

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Re: How do you play 4 player Dominion?
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2014, 10:59:51 am »
+2

Switch to Duchies much earlier than you would in 2p.

With 2p, you can go for Duchies if there are 4 or less Provinces left, that's still 2 per player.
If you want to switch to Duchies with 2 Provinces per player left in 4p, you have to do that around the 8 Province mark.

Also I don't think I would ever forego the opportunity to get a Province even if it's early, not even for King's Court.

There is also much less control. You can't control what other players do or when the game will end. Someone might run out a pile even when he's far behind just to end the game.

So the key thing is to grab the lion's share of the VP cards as quickly as possible.

Any kind of cursing can destroy a game. With 2p and Witch BM, you both get 5 Curses over the course of the game, say 1 Curse every 2 turns or so. With 4p, there are 30 Curses, so that's 7.5 per player and you get them much faster if everyone is joining the fray. Getting at least 2 Curses per turn is not exceptional.
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sudgy

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Re: How do you play 4 player Dominion?
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2014, 03:17:21 pm »
0

I usually refuse to play 4 player dominion...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: How do you play 4 player Dominion?
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2014, 09:23:33 pm »
0

Why is this in miscellaneous general discussion?
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silverspawn

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Re: How do you play 4 player Dominion?
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2014, 09:24:50 pm »
+4

Why is this in miscellaneous general discussion?

because dominion is not 4player dominion. it's a different game  :P

yuma

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Re: How do you play 4 player Dominion?
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2014, 09:59:19 pm »
0

If you have both base and intrigue you can use more than 12 provinces. 16 will often do the trick.

It extends the game a bit longer. Obviously so does having Colonies if you have prosperity.

There isn't much I have found to be useful for 3-pile endings. We tried a few times to do 4-pile endings (what we use for 5+ players, which is just a nightmare and only done when I only have 1 of base or intrigue with me) but it every game we tried that with was rather flat.

But really I think most people would say this is basically blasphemy, and I might agree. Plenty of people have provided probably better suggestions above that actually deal with strategy instead of game manipulation.
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