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[Voltaire]

I'm starting to think silver may not know what OMGUS is.

I thought it's a vote with absolutely no basis behind it.

No, OMGUS (oh my god u suck) is voting for someone because they voted/attacked you.

[KingZog3]

I'm starting to think silver may not know what OMGUS is.

I thought it's a vote with absolutely no basis behind it.

No, OMGUS (oh my god u suck) is voting for someone because they voted/attacked you.

Yeah, voting for someone with no basis is scummy and rude, the exception being day 1 when you have absolutely no information.

[Eevee]

I'm starting to think silver may not know what OMGUS is.

I thought it's a vote with absolutely no basis behind it.

It's a retaliation vote.

[silverspawn]

I'm starting to think silver may not know what OMGUS is.

I thought it's a vote with absolutely no basis behind it.

No, OMGUS (oh my god u suck) is voting for someone because they voted/attacked you.

oh, okay

[silverspawn]

Yeah, voting for someone with no basis is scummy and rude, the exception being day 1 when you have absolutely no information.

you are starting to annoy me 

[XerxesPraelor]

Silverspawn seems to be wanting to start whatever lynch he can, which is what I did in my closest to successful (if I quickhammered we would have won) scum game. It was BM, though, so I'm not sure how useful a comparison it is.

[XerxesPraelor]

I'm not sure there was ever a consensus that RVS was over. But I'll unvote anyway since my vote on Eevee was mostly RVS.

I got to get my vote off my partner before people see him as a good wagon.

 

I'm tempted to agree with Eevee here. I'm just going to quote all of sudgy's posts so far in a row.

Wait, so WW, are you a mason or not?

Vote: silverspawn.  I have my legitimate reasons.

Vote: KingZog3 for the OMGUS vote.

Kingzog, what's your previous mafia experience like?

I've played Werewolf IRL, which is nearly the same thing, with a couple extra roles and a different flavour. Although it's been a very long time since I've played it. I've read some of the wiki, and I'm in general not super dumb.

Okay. The two common pitfalls are haphazard claiming and quickhammering without giving the subject time to decide whether he wants to claim.

Well I haven't claimed anything. Was that quickhammering? I voted for Voltaire because he voted for me, not really a reason. Which is why I unvoted.

quickhammering is when you hammer someone (place the final vote for them to be lynched) before giving them ample time to respond.

I'm still keeping my vote on you for your OMGUS.  You haven't said anything in defense even.

It's an OMGUS vote.  Of course it screams mafia.

Sudgy/SK scumteam??

...How in the world does what's happened implicate that?  Vote: XerxesPraelor, my first real vote.

So, sudgy's "first real vote" isn't just his third vote (in 5 posts). It also follows his vote on KingZog, which he reiterates twice and demands a defense for. Now, how on earth is a vote, with a reason, that you reiterate twice and ask for a defense for, not a real vote?

This is scum play: casting about for a wagon until one sticks, and then downplaying past efforts after the fact so it doesn't look like he's doing that.

vote: sudgy

Sees a possible wagon very likely to work despite sudgy being town, goes with it. We're very lucky the PRs were assigned this way - the people who scum were going to mislynch turned out to be ICs.

 

Ultimately, the biggest strength of a masonry is that it's two IC's. Now that they have claimed, it's not such a terrible thing if either is nightkilled. Surely they are weakest of our power roles now.

it could also be three or four ICs. (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=C9%2B%2B#Mason_Roles)

 Which begs the question, now that the cat is out of the bag, should additional masons claim if they exist? it would greatly reduce our lynch pool.

Note, I am asking for speculation on what we should do here, not people jumping out and claiming. I'm just saying if Eevee's right and they're basically ICs ... aren't more ICs better?

Let's make sure that doesn't happen again.

 

It really isn't a strong case. I would submit that a better case is the one I was too scared to make -- silverspawn's play, of "making sure no one's 100 percent cleared" is definitely something scum would do as early as they could in a discussion like the one we just had.

I'll vote: silverspawn in any case.

they aren't 100% cleared. it could be a scum team making a dangerous move. and we should keep that in mind. If you find the truth scummy, I don't know what to tell you.

I find the fact that your first instinct was to point that out scummy. Scum players find ICs very scary. I know if I was suddenly hearing about two and I was scum, I would try to plant the seeds of doubt early in case I needed them later on.

This is also, as WW pointed out, weird:

sounds like someone's getting a little hot under the collar at the prospect of two ICs.

they always had the chance to claim. the fact that they revealed themselves is, while maybe not a big deal, still a good thing for scum. likewise, the prospect of two IC's is not a surprise, but something that was anticipated from the start.

When actually the best way forward is to accept it immediately and try to get town credit for it. Also, "if I were scum"

 

That's a good point, but you can use some version of that against literally any case against scum. When I'm hunting for scum, I'm looking for quick, visceral reactions that don't make sense coming from town but make sense coming from scared scum. And reacting to a barely prompted IC claim with "OMG scum ploy" fits that bill for me.

Misrepresentation of what someone said is scummy.

TBC

[Robz888]

Now getting overwhelmingly townie impression from XP, totally wrong on initial guess today. Also feeling silverspawn is town.

No especially townie feelings toward Eevee and Voltaire, the most dangerous suspects.

[Eevee]

Rereading Robz, I stumbled upon XP supposedly forgetting about the masons. MAN. How is that possible!? XP, how much time did you spend on choosing your doctoring target?

[XerxesPraelor]

Not tons. I thought about it casually, but I don't tend to devote much time to my targeting choices. You can look at all of the other games where I had a role - I chose this time based on who I would kill.

[Eevee]

Not tons. I thought about it casually, but I don't tend to devote much time to my targeting choices. You can look at all of the other games where I had a role - I chose this time based on who I would kill.

Isn't "who the masons are" a pretty critical piece of information, even if the question is "who I would kill"?

[silverspawn]

spending almost no time on the decision seems like a good way to play under your potential

[jotheonah]

Now getting overwhelmingly townie impression from XP, totally wrong on initial guess today. Also feeling silverspawn is town.

No especially townie feelings toward Eevee and Voltaire, the most dangerous suspects.

I don't like this at all. We know scum didn't kill XP (assuming for the moment he is the doctor). I feel like in the case where scum leaves a claimed doctor alive, their next move is trying to mislynch them -- exactly what Robz was angling for at the start of the day.

Then the case fails to gain traction and he posts this, immediately backpedalling and trying to direct suspicion onto totally new targets.

vote: Robz

FYI, I'm about to get on a plane home from MN, so starting tonight but especially Monday I'll be able to start posting more.

[silverspawn]

remember that there can be multiple doctors in this setup. XP could have been doctored, and even if he was not, scum could have feared that.

[jotheonah]

remember that there can be multiple doctors in this setup. XP could have been doctored, and even if he was not, scum could have feared that.

That's a possibility, but Occam's razor applies here I think. Until I have reason to think otherwise, it makes more sense that there's one scum faction and they shot sudgy, than that there are two, one shit sudgy, the other shot XP but he was doctored.

[Voltaire]

one shit sudgy

worst factional power ever

XP's joth/Eevee pairing is actually a really good thing to point out and keep in mind. I think I want to spend the rest of today not on XP but he is not off the table for the lynch.

Unlike joth I do not see Robz's flip as something inherently scummy. It is townie to change your mind after new information. However Robz is Robz and I can never read him ever, until it is too late (either we mislynch him or he's scum!MVP who just won the game). What I am saying is I am null on Robz. I am continuing to lean town on joth though because this line of thinking is counter-intuitive and more likely to come from town than scum. Probably? I should re-read more finished games.

So really what I need is time to re-read this game too, and that's time I don't have right now. Who wants to make a case on someone?

[Robz888]

I also lean town on Joth; unlike Voltaire, I think Joth's point on me is pretty good--that's something scum!me would do, make a bold-ish case and then backpedal in dramatic converted fashion if it doesn't take.

[Hydrad]

Hmm on my reads I'm still really suspicious about XP but I don't really want to lynch him today. Its something that if needed we can wait till Lylo because if he is actually the doctor they have to keep roleblocking him every night if they want to kill people. Which I'm ok with.

joth I have a slight scum read. and also I think one of WW/eevee might be scum. I get the feeling that one of them is trying to buddy with the other. So that the other gets a townie vibe from him and can gain town cred.

Volt and silver I think are decently towny. And Robz I would lean town right now.

Thats where I'm standing right now.

[Hydrad]

oh and SK I have town read on... obviously

kingzog and chairs are both null right now as one hasn't said much and the other is still new so i'm finding him hard to read

[jotheonah]

I was going to wait for the rest of XP's case to respond but I guess I might as well jump in now?

I'm not sure there was ever a consensus that RVS was over. But I'll unvote anyway since my vote on Eevee was mostly RVS.

I got to get my vote off my partner before people see him as a good wagon.

Calling teams at the start of day 2 with no flips, ok.

That's a good point, but you can use some version of that against literally any case against scum. When I'm hunting for scum, I'm looking for quick, visceral reactions that don't make sense coming from town but make sense coming from scared scum. And reacting to a barely prompted IC claim with "OMG scum ploy" fits that bill for me.

Misrepresentation of what someone said is scummy.

How exactly did I misrepresent someone here?

[XerxesPraelor]

He didn't say "OMG Scum ploy!" He just pointed out that we didn't know their alignments 100%. That's a ginormous difference of degree.

[jotheonah]

Out of context, I agree. But if you look back at that quote and the preceding 5 or 6 posts, I think you'll find that I made my meaning very clear and that was just a final, pithy restatement. Here are the other times I stated that case beforehand:

silverspawn's play, of "making sure no one's 100 percent cleared" is definitely something scum would do as early as they could in a discussion like the one we just had.

I find the fact that your first instinct was to point that out scummy. Scum players find ICs very scary. I know if I was suddenly hearing about two and I was scum, I would try to plant the seeds of doubt early in case I needed them later on.

So now who's misrepresenting whom, eh?

[XerxesPraelor]

I didn't point out your other posts because they were fine. That one was a misrepresentation. I guess it should be okay to exaggerate though. I still think a scumteam with you and eevee, but rereading makes me feel a little better about you alignment.

[XerxesPraelor]

Maybe I should try Eevee now.

[Voltaire]

Maybe I should try Eevee now.

If by "try Eevee" you mean "re-read Eevee to try to find him scummy and realize he's (probably) town", then yes, do that.