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[eHalcyon]

Walled Nomad Camp
Action - $5
+$2
+1 Buy
----------
When you gain or discard this, put it on your deck.

I think I have a new favourite 5$ to dish out with Swindler.

The best part is, if you hit it with Swindler, it just goes back on top of their deck, along with the new one.  You can keep Swindling it as many times as you like to put a big stack of Walled Nomad Camps on top of their deck.

No?  Trashing is not discarding.  If you hit one with Swindler, you can replace it but it doesn't build up.  You'd want to hit other $5 cards until their hand is all WNCs all the time.

[scott_pilgrim]

Walled Nomad Camp
Action - $5
+$2
+1 Buy
----------
When you gain or discard this, put it on your deck.

I think I have a new favourite 5$ to dish out with Swindler.

The best part is, if you hit it with Swindler, it just goes back on top of their deck, along with the new one.  You can keep Swindling it as many times as you like to put a big stack of Walled Nomad Camps on top of their deck.

No?  Trashing is not discarding.  If you hit one with Swindler, you can replace it but it doesn't build up.  You'd want to hit other $5 cards until their hand is all WNCs all the time.

Right, I have no idea what I was thinking...maybe Jester?

[Accatitippi]

Walled Nomad Camp
Action - $5
+$2
+1 Buy
----------
When you gain or discard this, put it on your deck.

I think I have a new favourite 5$ to dish out with Swindler.

The best part is, if you hit it with Swindler, it just goes back on top of their deck, along with the new one.  You can keep Swindling it as many times as you like to put a big stack of Walled Nomad Camps on top of their deck.

I'm not sure I'm following you. Swindler doesn't discard before trashing, does it?

Edit: I didn't realize y'all had moved to the next page, sorry. 

[Minotaur]

Walled Nomad Camp
Action - $5
+$2
+1 Buy
----------
When you gain or discard this, put it on your deck.

1.  "Walled" seems to mean that you get some kind of compensation when it doesn't "do anything".
2.  "Discard this from play" would be less problematic, and would have a built-in accountability clause.  It could have a "when you discard this, you may X", but it has to be optional to maintain accountability, and should probably be classified as a Reaction in this case.  I would probably stick with "when you discard this from play", making it not a Reaction, and more of a Merchant Ship or Treasury variant.  I would probably give it a different name.  I'm not sure if the topdecking should be optional or mandatory at $5.  Probably Optional, since it's just a Woodcutter, but even then, it might be good enough for $5.
3.  Yes I know what thread this is.  X-P

[eHalcyon]

1.  "Walled" seems to mean that you get some kind of compensation when it doesn't "do anything".

Well there's only one data point, so "Walled" could also be about conditionally top-decking itself.

[Haddock]

1.  "Walled" seems to mean that you get some kind of compensation when it doesn't "do anything".

Well there's only one data point, so "Walled" could also be about conditionally top-decking itself.

Watchtowers are "guarding" in the same sense that "walls" (around a village) are, and Watchtowers topdeck things.
So yes; my instinct would be to say that topdecky things and "Walled" goes well together thematically.

[Minotaur]

Time Bomb
Action-Timepunk
Cost: P

This turn: Trash this card.  Previous turn:  Trash your hand.

[math]

Time Bomb
Action-Timepunk
Cost: P

This turn: Trash this card.  Previous turn:  Trash your hand.

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=74324

[Seprix]

Time Bomb
Action-Timepunk
Cost: P

This turn: Trash this card.  Previous turn:  Trash your hand.

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=74324

If that's a real card, color me impressed.

[ConMan]

Time Bomb
Action-Timepunk
Cost: P

This turn: Trash this card.  Previous turn:  Trash your hand.

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=74324

If that's a real card, color me impressed.

It's real, but from one of the two "Un-" sets that were designed with humour and weirdness in mind. This included cards that had non-integer values in places that were typically integers, cards that affected other games being played, a card that required your opponent to get you a drink, a card that was meant to be physically destroyed when activated, a card that caused you to open a fresh booster pack and take a card from it to add to your deck, and so forth.

[Minotaur]

For the record, how much should Will Smith cost if it were a real card?  I started at <4> and quickly bumped it up to <6>, but I don't have any experience with these cards.  The general rule seems to be that they need to cost a lot, so maybe as much as <8>?

It doesn't let you draw 3 cards on this turn, right? Then, it should cost 4 or <5>. Usually weaker than Haunted Woods.

My impression from seeing some previews and not ever testing:  <1> is equivalent to $2 or $1.5, or perhaps not directly comparable.  The threshold is trivial to reach, but is jacked up precisely because you're paying it back "with interest".  So $4 could be more like <6> or even <8>.  Or maybe I'm wrong and <5> is appropriate.  If it's mostly better than Smithy but generally not worth $5, then having it "cost more" by currency change would be a nice fix.

Weird that Haunted Woods is like getting attacked by Will Smith.  Never would have thought of it that way before...

[Accatitippi]

Night - 5c Action Attack
+3 coins
Each other player puts the top card of their deck face-down on their Night mat. They may not look at it for the rest of the game.

[Minotaur]

Secret Identity
Landmark

Each player begins with two decks and two discard piles, one for Alter-Ego and one for Hero.  At the start of each turn, flip over your Alter-Ego/Hero token (it begins on the Hero side).  When the Day/Night side is face up, play with your Day/Night deck and discard pile, respectively.  Replace one of your starting Estates (or Overgrown Estate) in your Alter-Ego deck with Gear, and replace one of your staring Estates (or Overgrown Estate) in your Hero deck with Haven.

[eHalcyon]

For the record, how much should Will Smith cost if it were a real card?  I started at <4> and quickly bumped it up to <6>, but I don't have any experience with these cards.  The general rule seems to be that they need to cost a lot, so maybe as much as <8>?

It doesn't let you draw 3 cards on this turn, right? Then, it should cost 4 or <5>. Usually weaker than Haunted Woods.

My impression from seeing some previews and not ever testing:  <1> is equivalent to $2 or $1.5, or perhaps not directly comparable.  The threshold is trivial to reach, but is jacked up precisely because you're paying it back "with interest".  So $4 could be more like <6> or even <8>.  Or maybe I'm wrong and <5> is appropriate.  If it's mostly better than Smithy but generally not worth $5, then having it "cost more" by currency change would be a nice fix.

Weird that Haunted Woods is like getting attacked by Will Smith.  Never would have thought of it that way before...

Bolded parts are wrong, assuming you're talking about this Will Smith:

Will Smith
<6>
Action-Duration

At the start of your next turn, +3 Cards

<1> is not worth $2 or even $1.5.  It's worth less than $1, because it gives you more options -- you could pay it immediately, in which case it's basically the same as a $1 cost, or you can put it off for a future turn.  You applied the correct "conversion" though, giving a higher number for debt than for coin.

Will Smith isn't like getting attacked by Haunted Woods; it's playing Haunted Woods without attacking opponents.  Based solely on that, Will Smith should cost less than $5 or at least <5>, or some weird mix of coin and debt.  I don't know what the approximate debt-to-coin conversion should be (or if there's a good one at all) and I'm not sure how much to value the Haunted Woods attack either, so it's tough to give a better cost suggestion for Will Smith.  Your <6> cost sounds like a fine place to start testing though, if you wanted to test it.

[Minotaur]

For the record, how much should Will Smith cost if it were a real card?  I started at <4> and quickly bumped it up to <6>, but I don't have any experience with these cards.  The general rule seems to be that they need to cost a lot, so maybe as much as <8>?

It doesn't let you draw 3 cards on this turn, right? Then, it should cost 4 or <5>. Usually weaker than Haunted Woods.

My impression from seeing some previews and not ever testing:  <1> is equivalent to $2 or $1.5, or perhaps not directly comparable.  The threshold is trivial to reach, but is jacked up precisely because you're paying it back "with interest".  So $4 could be more like <6> or even <8>.  Or maybe I'm wrong and <5> is appropriate.  If it's mostly better than Smithy but generally not worth $5, then having it "cost more" by currency change would be a nice fix.

Weird that Haunted Woods is like getting attacked by Will Smith.  Never would have thought of it that way before...

Bolded parts are wrong, assuming you're talking about this Will Smith:

Will Smith
<6>
Action-Duration

At the start of your next turn, +3 Cards

<1> is not worth $2 or even $1.5.  It's worth less than $1, because it gives you more options -- you could pay it immediately, in which case it's basically the same as a $1 cost, or you can put it off for a future turn.  You applied the correct "conversion" though, giving a higher number for debt than for coin.

Will Smith isn't like getting attacked by Haunted Woods; it's playing Haunted Woods without attacking opponents.  Based solely on that, Will Smith should cost less than $5 or at least <5>, or some weird mix of coin and debt.  I don't know what the approximate debt-to-coin conversion should be (or if there's a good one at all) and I'm not sure how much to value the Haunted Woods attack either, so it's tough to give a better cost suggestion for Will Smith.  Your <6> cost sounds like a fine place to start testing though, if you wanted to test it.

The only Will Smith that attacks in the game is Haunted Woods.  So if there were a Will Smith that attacked you, it would be Haunted Woods.  Maybe it's not the best metaphor.  And yeah, I don't know why I stated the conversion factor backward.  Change of units sucks.

Anyway, <6> is close enough for Jazz balanced enough for RBCI!

[J Reggie]

<1> is not worth $2 or even $1.5.  It's worth less than $1, because it gives you more options -- you could pay it immediately, in which case it's basically the same as a $1 cost, or you can put it off for a future turn.  You applied the correct "conversion" though, giving a higher number for debt than for coin.

I don't know if you're talking about what it's worth in terms of opportunity cost (like how people say Potion is worth $2.5, which I don't agree with) but in terms of the game, <1> is not worth more or less than $2; they're simply not comparable, like Potions.

[eHalcyon]

<1> is not worth $2 or even $1.5.  It's worth less than $1, because it gives you more options -- you could pay it immediately, in which case it's basically the same as a $1 cost, or you can put it off for a future turn.  You applied the correct "conversion" though, giving a higher number for debt than for coin.

I don't know if you're talking about what it's worth in terms of opportunity cost (like how people say Potion is worth $2.5, which I don't agree with) but in terms of the game, <1> is not worth more or less than $2; they're simply not comparable, like Potions.

Talking about opportunity cost, specifically in the context of deciding on a cost for a fan card.

The Potion-to-coin comparison is not great because a big part of Potion-cost is the per-shuffle gating, but I think a Debt-to-coin comparison should be better.  No experience to make that comparison yet though.

[Minotaur]

<1> is not worth $2 or even $1.5.  It's worth less than $1, because it gives you more options -- you could pay it immediately, in which case it's basically the same as a $1 cost, or you can put it off for a future turn.  You applied the correct "conversion" though, giving a higher number for debt than for coin.

I don't know if you're talking about what it's worth in terms of opportunity cost (like how people say Potion is worth $2.5, which I don't agree with) but in terms of the game, <1> is not worth more or less than $2; they're simply not comparable, like Potions.

It's really situational, sure.  But it's nice to have a pricing guideline to deviate from.  Potions are extra derpy because of the whole "ha ha, now you can't buy Provinces for the next 8 turns" thing, but Debt doesn't foul up your deck in the same way.  Refusing to translate costs is less useful if you can put $1 = <1.5 to 2> and take it with a grain of salt.  There will always be cases where a <6> is actually worth less than $3 or more than $4, but everything depends on the board regardless.  If you can't say that $1 ~ <1.5 to 2>, then you probably can't say that Peddler is worth $4 or Mercenary is worth $5, or even that any cost-card is worth what it says that it is outside of mechanics that directly refer to their costs.

Debt is sort of tricky because you can buy an arbitrarily awesome card on your first shuffle if you wish, making it necessary to balance around that kind of case.  For example, it would be pretty hard to assign a value to a card that Moneylenders up to three times when played.  Maybe $6 or $7, but as much as <16>.  The <1.5 to 2> is inflated by the fact that it's less amazing by the time you can afford $6 or $7 in the first place.  (Uberlender+Market would be a pretty boring and derpy money strategy, I would think.)

I just don't think it's useless as a naive design heuristic.  Apothecary > Laboratory, for example.  The opportunity cost is that you spent $4 instead of $3 on a more expensive treasure that can't be used for as many things.  Is a Potion always better than a Silver?  Of course not.

[Minotaur]

f.ds Aneurysm
Action
Cost: $4

+1 Action
Gain a Debt cost card whose practical Coin value* is less than half of its Debt cost, or more than 2/3 of its Debt cost.

OR

Gain a Coin cost card whose practical Debt value* is more than twice its coin cost or less than 1.5 times its coin cost.

If you do not gain a card, +1 Card, +$1.

(* - Judged relative to what it would be worth to buy it this turn if the alternatives were to buy nothing at all or to spend no more on something else.)

[Seprix]

f.ds Aneurysm
Action
Cost: $6P

The player to your left takes an extra turn after this one, in which you can see all cards he can and make all decisions for him. Any cards he would gain on that turn, you gain instead; any cards of his that are trashed are set aside and returned to his discard pile at end of turn.

FTFY

[Minotaur]

f.ds Aneurysm
Action
Cost: $4

+1 Action
Gain a Debt cost card whose practical Coin value* is less than half of its Debt cost, or more than 2/3 of its Debt cost.

OR

Gain a Coin cost card whose practical Debt value* is more than twice its coin cost or less than 1.5 times its coin cost.

If you do not gain a card, +1 Card, +$1.

(* - Judged relative to what it would be worth to buy it this turn if the alternatives were to buy nothing at all or to spend no more on something else.)

I just noticed that this is really bad on a Scout board (unless other cards become gainable).  Who's going to pay <6> for Scout?

[Limetime]

f.ds Aneurysm
Action
Cost: $4

+1 Action
Gain a Debt cost card whose practical Coin value* is less than half of its Debt cost, or more than 2/3 of its Debt cost.

OR

Gain a Coin cost card whose practical Debt value* is more than twice its coin cost or less than 1.5 times its coin cost.

If you do not gain a card, +1 Card, +$1.

(* - Judged relative to what it would be worth to buy it this turn if the alternatives were to buy nothing at all or to spend no more on something else.)

I just noticed that this is really bad on a Scout board (unless other cards become gainable).  Who's going to pay <6> for Scout?

Who's going to pay 4 for scout?

[Minotaur]

f.ds Aneurysm
Action
Cost: $4

+1 Action
Gain a Debt cost card whose practical Coin value* is less than half of its Debt cost, or more than 2/3 of its Debt cost.

OR

Gain a Coin cost card whose practical Debt value* is more than twice its coin cost or less than 1.5 times its coin cost.

If you do not gain a card, +1 Card, +$1.

(* - Judged relative to what it would be worth to buy it this turn if the alternatives were to buy nothing at all or to spend no more on something else.)

I just noticed that this is really bad on a Scout board (unless other cards become gainable).  Who's going to pay <6> for Scout?

Who's going to pay 4 for scout?

Its canon coin cost is $4.  It is worth less than <6> in practical value in 99% of turns.  Therefore, it is one of the cards you have to choose between when you play this card 99% of the time.

[Minotaur]

f.ds Aneurysm
Action
Cost: $4

+1 Action
Gain a Debt cost card whose practical Coin value* is less than half of its Debt cost, or more than 2/3 of its Debt cost.

OR

Gain a Coin cost card whose practical Debt value* is more than twice its coin cost or less than 1.5 times its coin cost.

If you do not gain a card, +1 Card, +$1.

(* - Judged relative to what it would be worth to buy it this turn if the alternatives were to buy nothing at all or to spend no more on something else.)

I just noticed that this is really bad on a Scout board (unless other cards become gainable).  Who's going to pay <6> for Scout?

Who's going to pay 4 for scout?

Its canon coin cost is $4.  It is worth less than <6> in practical value in 99% of turns.  Therefore, it is one of the cards you have to choose between when you play this card 99% of the time.

If you couldn't tell that was a joke about how nobody ever buys scout.

So was what you were replying to.

[Minotaur]

Jumanji
Landmark

Each player Donates their deck on Turn 1.  Additional players may join the game 20 years from now.  If they do, they also Donate their deck at the start of their first turn, but then they gain an Ambassador and a Copper.  They must play Ambassador to reveal a Copper (but not return it to the Supply) before they are allowed to pay off any Debt tokens.