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Author Topic: Really bad card ideas  (Read 1870214 times)

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ashersky

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2650 on: May 29, 2014, 06:28:18 pm »
0

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2651 on: May 29, 2014, 06:43:40 pm »
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Pi, action $3

Begin naming digits of pi until you name one incorrectly. For each correctly named digit, +$1. If you correctly name 100 digits, you win.

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Hey, I would get +$9 with each play!  Easy win!

I think I'd get +$13. Which really is far too much, Pi is ~3.14 for most purposes, 3.1416 for precise work.

Did anyone else cringe at the "6" at the end there?

Yes, and I made the post. But really it's true, very rarely do you need to be more precise. I suppose you could use 3.14159 or 3.14159265 if you want to not have to round up, though.
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Minotaur

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2652 on: May 29, 2014, 07:56:36 pm »
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Pretty sure I can win every time just by naming 100 numbers......at no point does it say they have to be the ones at the beginning....

Unfortunately it is not yet proven that pi contains all sequences of digits.
Just wondering, are there numbers that have been proven to be normal? Is normal the right term here?

And although it has not been proven, it is considered exceedingly likely, yes? (not that you can use that for anything of course)

It's easy to make numbers like that just by choosing the digits as you go along, but I have no idea if any famous or typically encountered numbers are like that.
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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2653 on: May 30, 2014, 12:53:01 am »
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For example, if you wanted any five digit sequence to be correct, 0.00010000200003000040000500006000070000800009000100011... would work.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2654 on: May 30, 2014, 01:14:25 am »
0

Pretty sure I can win every time just by naming 100 numbers......at no point does it say they have to be the ones at the beginning....

Unfortunately it is not yet proven that pi contains all sequences of digits.
Just wondering, are there numbers that have been proven to be normal? Is normal the right term here?

And although it has not been proven, it is considered exceedingly likely, yes? (not that you can use that for anything of course)

It's easy to make numbers like that just by choosing the digits as you go along, but I have no idea if any famous or typically encountered numbers are like that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champernowne_constant
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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2655 on: May 30, 2014, 01:33:06 am »
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Pretty sure I can win every time just by naming 100 numbers......at no point does it say they have to be the ones at the beginning....

Unfortunately it is not yet proven that pi contains all sequences of digits.
Just wondering, are there numbers that have been proven to be normal? Is normal the right term here?

And although it has not been proven, it is considered exceedingly likely, yes? (not that you can use that for anything of course)

It's easy to make numbers like that just by choosing the digits as you go along, but I have no idea if any famous or typically encountered numbers are like that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champernowne_constant

That's one example of such a number, but it's not like sqrt(3) or e or pi have the property (that I know of).  It's not something I know a lot about, but basically you can build a number to be like that, but it's hard for me to say whether your "favorite" numbers like e, pi, or sin(1) have the property we're looking for.  Someone might be able to answer that more complicated question, but this one is a bit more down-to-earth.  (And apparently the constant in this article has some long-term stability in how often strings occur beyond the original question, so I guess that's nice).
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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2656 on: May 30, 2014, 03:47:57 am »
+1

Does anyone else picture a Pokemon whenever someone writes sqrt in this thread?
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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2657 on: May 30, 2014, 08:43:46 am »
+3

As usual, Vi Hart has something to say about pi and normality:

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2658 on: May 30, 2014, 03:47:45 pm »
+1

And that pi is wrong.



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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2659 on: May 30, 2014, 04:54:35 pm »
+3

Woah. Thank you for introducing me to Vi Hart. She's kinda.... genius.

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2660 on: May 30, 2014, 11:00:30 pm »
+2

That was a cool video. But the twelve-tone system is a shackle itself!

(3/2)^12 does not equal 2^7! WAKE UP PEOPLE!
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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2661 on: May 31, 2014, 02:39:51 am »
+3

That was a cool video. But the twelve-tone system is a shackle itself!

(3/2)^12 does not equal 2^7! WAKE UP SHEEPLEPEOPLE!

FTFY

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2662 on: May 31, 2014, 08:50:57 am »
+1

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2663 on: May 31, 2014, 09:15:46 am »
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Woah. Thank you for introducing me to Vi Hart. She's kinda.... genius.


I usually use random generators when composing. It's pretty fun.
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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2664 on: May 31, 2014, 12:43:34 pm »
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That was a cool video. But the twelve-tone system is a shackle itself!

(3/2)^12 does not equal 2^7! WAKE UP PEOPLE!

Sure, but 2^(7/12) is close enough to 3/2 that it's not a big deal... the beat between A440 and E660 is less than 1 Hz.  The human ear just plain isn't that good.

Yes, I'm a fan of well temperament.
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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2665 on: May 31, 2014, 12:57:50 pm »
+3

Oh, I just realized that this is not the Random Stuff thread.

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2666 on: May 31, 2014, 01:35:44 pm »
+2

That was a cool video. But the twelve-tone system is a shackle itself!

(3/2)^12 does not equal 2^7! WAKE UP PEOPLE!

Sure, but 2^(7/12) is close enough to 3/2 that it's not a big deal... the beat between A440 and E660 is less than 1 Hz.  The human ear just plain isn't that good.

Yes, I'm a fan of well temperament.

Close enough??? CLOSE ENOUGH!?!?!

Yeah I mean you're mostly right haha. My brain just likes the concept of just intonation...beautiful patterns of rational numbers weaving rhythms and melodies...much more in line with the natural theory of vibration and the history of music theory.

And it is helpful to bear in mind sometimes. I did a bunch of barbershop quartet singing in college, and tuning those rational numbers is practically the point of the thing--If you do it right you get that brain-tingling "fifth voice" floating on top. For instance, the "barbershop 7" or "blues 7" (B flat in the key of C), obviously very important to barbershop singing, is somewhat flatter than you would expect from a piano:

7/4 = 1.75
2^(10/12) = 1.78179...

So if you're singing the 7 in a barbershop chord, you might want to lean flat in order to get it to resonate, especially if it's in the tenor range (as it often is) where those slight frequency differences are more noticeable.

The piano tuning is closer to the "IV of IV" interpretation of B flat:

(4/3) * (4/3) = (16/9) = 1.777...

which is also valid, but it implies tension--your brain would probably want to go to a IV chord afterwards. If you're sitting on the last wailin chord of a blues jam, you definitely want to be on a 7/4, not 16/9.

I love this stuff, I could talk about it all day :) Apologies for the continued derailment.

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2667 on: May 31, 2014, 04:58:37 pm »
0

2^7 = 128
(3/2) ^12 = 129.7...
Mental arithmetic FTW !
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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2668 on: May 31, 2014, 08:00:52 pm »
+5

2^7 = 128
(3/2) ^12 = 129.7...
Mental arithmetic FTW !

Please show working
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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2669 on: June 01, 2014, 12:32:52 pm »
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Pianos are slightly out of tune because it is literally impossible to be in tune.  A pure major 3rd interval is multiplying the frequency by 1.25.  Three thirds should take you to an octave, right?  1.25^3 = 1.953125.  All the notes of a piano are off because of that.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2670 on: June 01, 2014, 01:45:42 pm »
+1

Sudgy--yeah that's sort of the point I was trying to make. The notes *don't* wrap around like that. Yet in our musical culture it is deeply ingrained that they should. In band, when we played the circle of fifths, it was a given that you should end up where you started, it didn't occur to me to think why for some time. Sometimes you even see blurbs about the mathematics of music theory, which emphasize the chromatic scale as a cyclic group in order to talk about group theory. My point is this is not the most fundamental way to describe music, it's just a consequence of the neat fact that (3/2)^12 ALMOST equals 2^7.

You can certainly construct keyboards with different tunings than equal temperment. For example the "well-temperment" of Bach's time, which tries to maintain rational intervals when possible but also divides the difference between (3/2)^12 and 2^7 over several intervals so it does wrap around. This means that different keys would have sounded different on such a keyboard (as opposed to equal temperment, where all intervals/keys are identical), which may have inspired some of the differences between the Inventions and his other compositions.

Going back further than that, the most ancient form is "just-temperment", where all intervals are beautiful and rational and Pythagorean. The price of this is that things sound funkier the further you are from the intended key--just temperment is really established around one tonic. So if you have a keyboard in C, don't expect to play songs in F sharp or G flat (which are different notes here!) and expect it to sound nice.

So let's say you were constructing a piano in the key of C, which we'll say has tonic frequency f. A reasonable set of frequencies for defining the rest of the major scale might be:

C = 1f
D = (9/8)f
E = (5/4)f
F = (4/3)f
G = (3/2)f
A = (5/3)f
B = (15/8)f
C = 2f

The chromatic scale is a little trickier and open to interpretation, but you can figure it out. For example, a reasonable value for C# might be (16/15)f = 2*(8/15)f = (4/3)*(4/5)f, but you might also want it as (25/24)f = (5/6)*(5/4)f. Even the simpler ones: 5/3 is a nice simple fraction and definitely a good choice for A, (5/3) = (4/3)*(5/4) = (5/6)*2. But if it were part of a V of V chord, you might prefer it as (9/8)*(3/2) = (27/16).

So yeah this is pretty academic, and of course I understand the practical reasons why equal temperment came into favor. But I think it's pretty cool to think about, and if you're singing or playing violin/trombone/whatever, you can really revel in it and try to tune those rational numbers just the way your brain likes 'em.

Ramble ramble ramble
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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2671 on: June 01, 2014, 01:50:43 pm »
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Pianos are slightly out of tune because it is literally impossible to be in tune.  A pure major 3rd interval is multiplying the frequency by 1.25.  Three thirds should take you to an octave, right?  1.25^3 = 1.953125.  All the notes of a piano are off because of that.

There is such a thing as 2^(1/12), though...
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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2672 on: June 01, 2014, 01:51:41 pm »
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F sharp or G flat (which are different notes here!)
They are always different notes.
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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2673 on: June 01, 2014, 01:57:55 pm »
0

F sharp or G flat (which are different notes here!)
They are always different notes.

Yes I agree, but on an equally-tempered piano they would have the same frequency, despite their different interpretations. On a just-tempered keyboard they would literally have different frequencies, depending which way around the "circle" of fifths you traversed.
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Re: Really bad card ideas
« Reply #2674 on: June 01, 2014, 03:04:56 pm »
0

F sharp or G flat (which are different notes here!)
They are always different notes.

I had a hard time recently explaining to someone why you would ever want a Cb.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm
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