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[yed]

Really is Forager+Jack right opening into Minion Highway Market Square engine?
Or I was only unlucky?

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140627/log.51102b6ee4b06719e45eef9d.1403892552990.txt

[amalloy]

Really is Forager+Jack right opening into Minion Highway Market Square engine?
Or I was only unlucky?

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140627/log.51102b6ee4b06719e45eef9d.1403892552990.txt

Jack seems a lot better than Silver here for getting to $5. Sure, the Silver is delayed a shuffle, but all of Jack's features are being used to great effect. Gaining a few Silvers is nice, so you can afford $5s without having to buy more Silver; drawing up to 5 cards is enormous when you've already played a Forager or two; being able to trash aomething means you can use your Foragers on Copper.

Another way of looking at it is that if you open Jack/Forager, colliding them is a jackpot (and you'll be buying another Forager, so that happens pretty soon), whereas if you open Forager/Silver, colliding them is usually a disaster: you want to trash a card, but since no treasures have been trashed yet, you need to have specifically Silver/Forager/Copper/Copper/Copper (or an Overgrown Estate that draws a Copper) to be able to afford a $5; even that's not so great, because you'd rather be trashing a Shelter than a Copper.

[luser]

A problem was later in game where you bought market square instead third forager which also generates +buy and two coins if you trash silver. Also you had too many minions you should buy highways instead once you are drawing deck.

[hvb]

Generally I like Forager/Silver opening here most. I think you dont need more than one silver. Forager/Jack is the more agressive way and should be close to that as jack has some synergy with forager/necro and can be faster with with good draws, but the risk of bad draws is also bigger. As played your opponent didnt get punished by his draws. I think Forager/Silver is slightly better than Forager/Jack.
With Minion on board,  I think you dont want a 3rd forager at turn 5, as it increases the chance of non-5-turns, better buy just a marketsquare instead.

[silverspawn]

well his forager collided with JOAT on turn 3, and then he made it grind though exactly 8 of the 12 cards, so that the next 4 all mised the reshuffle. I think that's pretty huge, if he drew it with forager on turn 4, the forager + joat would've missed the reshuffle instead.

[yed]

A problem was later in game where you bought market square instead third forager which also generates +buy and two coins if you trash silver. Also you had too many minions you should buy highways instead once you are drawing deck.

What?

If I remember correctly I was almoust out of junk cards, when I bought the Market Square.

And I think I have bough first Highway when I was still not drawing my deck...
The issue was me losing the Minion split.

[luser]

A problem was later in game where you bought market square instead third forager which also generates +buy and two coins if you trash silver. Also you had too many minions you should buy highways instead once you are drawing deck.

What?

If I remember correctly I was almoust out of junk cards, when I bought the Market Square.

And I think I have bough first Highway when I was still not drawing my deck...
The issue was me losing the Minion split.

Sorry, from question I assumed you are other player. so I looked at game and his market square looked bit early, I would go for 6 higways and 4 minions than vice versa.

[dondon151]

I don't think you want to get Minions at all until you're willing to commit to green, by which point you can probably get them for free off extra buys (especially if you can't reduce Province to $0).

Solitaire log: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140627/log.516d4fd3e4b082c74d7b96c1.1403919432741.txt

Obviously opposing Minions can throw a wrench into things, but you would build much faster if you get Highways first. Forager/Jack is probably a much better opening than Forager/Silver, and I don't think a third Forager is a good idea because it increases the risk of getting terrible Forager draws.

[silverspawn]

I don't think you want to get Minions at all until you're willing to commit to green, by which point you can probably get them for free off extra buys (especially if you can't reduce Province to $0).

Solitaire log: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140627/log.516d4fd3e4b082c74d7b96c1.1403919432741.txt

Obviously opposing Minions can throw a wrench into things, but you would build much faster if you get Highways first. Forager/Jack is probably a much better opening than Forager/Silver, and I don't think a third Forager is a good idea because it increases the risk of getting terrible Forager draws.

if you don't get minions, silver becomes even worse. not getting minions but opening jack doesn't seem right.

[dondon151]

Why doesn't it seem right? Your first play of Jack, and maybe your second play of Jack, are simply replacing Shelters with Silvers. You're also cycling much more quickly, especially if Jack collides with Necropolis or Forager, and Jack itself boosts hand value by drawing up to 5 cards, which again is an exceptional combo with Necropolis and Forager.

[silverspawn]

Why doesn't it seem right? Your first play of Jack, and maybe your second play of Jack, are simply replacing Shelters with Silvers. You're also cycling much more quickly, especially if Jack collides with Necropolis or Forager, and Jack itself boosts hand value by drawing up to 5 cards, which again is an exceptional combo with Necropolis and Forager.

well because silver is an awful card in a highway engine, and you only want it really early, so buying one silver instead of Joat, which will get you even more silver, but kicks in delayed seems preferable.

I was also going to make a point that forager/JoaT is less likely to hit 5$ in turn 3/4, then I got curious and wrote a java program simulating it. so forager/silver has a 57,8% chance to hit 5$ once, 0,7% chance to hit 5$ twice, and JoaT/forager has 46,6% chance to hit 5$ once and 6,7% chance to hit 5$ twice... unless i made a mistake, but that sounds reasonable. so it's not that likely to matter, but whenever it does it's probably game deciding.

[dondon151]

Silver/Forager into straight Highway/MS: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140627/log.516d4fd3e4b082c74d7b96c1.1403929073800.txt
Silver/Forager into Minions, then Highway/MS: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140627/log.516d4fd3e4b082c74d7b96c1.1403930242453.txt
Jack/Forager into 1 Minion, then Highway/MS: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140627/log.516d4fd3e4b082c74d7b96c1.1403930456031.txt
Jack/Forager into 1 Minion, then Highway/MS: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140627/log.516d4fd3e4b082c74d7b96c1.1403931227788.txt

Log 1 I could have had 12 turns with slightly better luck. Log 2 should have been 12 turns, but I made a mistake not buying an 8th Highway. Log 3 had an amazing draw on turn 3, and log 4 is pretty ordinary except I missed getting a second Forager on the reshuffle.

I think getting 1 Minion before going into Highways might be better; I'm not convinced at all that Silver/Forager is a better opening.

[SCSN]

I agree with a JoT/Forager open, it speeds up cycling and deck improvement (Shelters into Silvers) early on, and later the Silvers are nice Forager fodder that don't cost you a buy (which you shouldn't be wasting because of Highway making good pieces cheap). If my opponent is getting any Minions at all I would get two Minions before going for Highways, and then only get a 3rd Minion once all the Highways are gone. With good trashing and mostly cantrips for payload you don't need that many draw, especially not when it comes at the expense of not getting Highways instead.

Silver/Forager into straight Highway/MS: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140627/log.516d4fd3e4b082c74d7b96c1.1403929073800.txt
Silver/Forager into Minions, then Highway/MS: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140627/log.516d4fd3e4b082c74d7b96c1.1403930242453.txt
Jack/Forager into 1 Minion, then Highway/MS: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140627/log.516d4fd3e4b082c74d7b96c1.1403930456031.txt
Jack/Forager into 1 Minion, then Highway/MS: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20140627/log.516d4fd3e4b082c74d7b96c1.1403931227788.txt

Log 1 I could have had 12 turns with slightly better luck. Log 2 should have been 12 turns, but I made a mistake not buying an 8th Highway. Log 3 had an amazing draw on turn 3, and log 4 is pretty ordinary except I missed getting a second Forager on the reshuffle.

I think getting 1 Minion before going into Highways might be better; I'm not convinced at all that Silver/Forager is a better opening.

On boards like this solitaire games aren't that useful because they don't feature an opponent Minion attacking you. I agree that 1 Minion is probably best in solitaire, but I'd be pretty surprised if in a mirror you don't want a 2nd. I understand that you can't rely on a bot to play it half-way decent, but if you login from a 2nd tab and join your own game you can at least play against someone of a similar skill level.