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Author Topic: Constructed General Discussion  (Read 270442 times)

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markusin

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #250 on: October 16, 2014, 11:36:56 am »
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I just remembered that I can now pull off the Leeroy+UtH combo now that I have Leeroy.
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ashersky

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #251 on: October 18, 2014, 07:37:56 am »
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How do I beat handlock?  It feels like if I can't burst from 21 life to zero in one turn, I can't win.

And I just don't have much capability for a 21 attack turn...
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EgorK

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #252 on: October 18, 2014, 08:55:09 am »
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How do I beat handlock?  It feels like if I can't burst from 21 life to zero in one turn, I can't win.

And I just don't have much capability for a 21 attack turn...

You do not need to burst him in one turn. Playing hunter you do not care about overdamaging handlock, just save kill comands for last push to face
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #253 on: October 18, 2014, 09:02:36 am »
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How do I beat handlock?  It feels like if I can't burst from 21 life to zero in one turn, I can't win.

And I just don't have much capability for a 21 attack turn...

You do not need to burst him in one turn. Playing hunter you do not care about overdamaging handlock, just save kill comands for last push to face

Really?  Every game is lost when he triple Giants, argus two of them and shadowflame the third...

He can't cast Giants at 21 health, but below that, as he approaches killable levels, the Giants destroy me.
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EgorK

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #254 on: October 18, 2014, 11:33:27 am »
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How do I beat handlock?  It feels like if I can't burst from 21 life to zero in one turn, I can't win.

And I just don't have much capability for a 21 attack turn...

You do not need to burst him in one turn. Playing hunter you do not care about overdamaging handlock, just save kill comands for last push to face

Really?  Every game is lost when he triple Giants, argus two of them and shadowflame the third...

He can't cast Giants at 21 health, but below that, as he approaches killable levels, the Giants destroy me.

But really, he can't do that realistically at over 10 health. And at 10 he still need dream hand to do it. And you can still win by double KC
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KingZog3

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #255 on: October 18, 2014, 11:40:15 am »
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How do I beat handlock?  It feels like if I can't burst from 21 life to zero in one turn, I can't win.

And I just don't have much capability for a 21 attack turn...

You do not need to burst him in one turn. Playing hunter you do not care about overdamaging handlock, just save kill comands for last push to face

Really?  Every game is lost when he triple Giants, argus two of them and shadowflame the third...

He can't cast Giants at 21 health, but below that, as he approaches killable levels, the Giants destroy me.

But really, he can't do that realistically at over 10 health. And at 10 he still need dream hand to do it. And you can still win by double KC

Yeah I've found beating Handlock pretty easy recently. I'm playing a reincarnate Shaman and there are a lot of ways to deal with giants if you have a couple minion on the board. And Shaman, my deck in particular, generally has a lot of minions out. And with all the deathrattles even if he board clears there are generally some little guys left over.
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markusin

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #256 on: October 18, 2014, 11:50:01 am »
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How do I beat handlock?  It feels like if I can't burst from 21 life to zero in one turn, I can't win.

And I just don't have much capability for a 21 attack turn...

You do not need to burst him in one turn. Playing hunter you do not care about overdamaging handlock, just save kill comands for last push to face

Really?  Every game is lost when he triple Giants, argus two of them and shadowflame the third...

He can't cast Giants at 21 health, but below that, as he approaches killable levels, the Giants destroy me.

But really, he can't do that realistically at over 10 health. And at 10 he still need dream hand to do it. And you can still win by double KC

Yeah I've found beating Handlock pretty easy recently. I'm playing a reincarnate Shaman and there are a lot of ways to deal with giants if you have a couple minion on the board. And Shaman, my deck in particular, generally has a lot of minions out. And with all the deathrattles even if he board clears there are generally some little guys left over.
Shaman tends to have the edge against handlock, especially if they run Bloodlust. I've noticed it's really effective to deliberately keep handlocks at high health until you have near-lethal.
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Awaclus

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #257 on: October 18, 2014, 12:15:04 pm »
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I'm playing Paladin aggro and I think the Handlock matchup is slightly favorable for me. Divine Favor is super useful, Equality deals with the Giants and I can also deal a lot of damage pretty fast. The problematic games are when I'm forced to play an Equality at a suboptimal time or when I don't have it.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #258 on: October 18, 2014, 03:53:45 pm »
+1

When playing against Handlock, keep in mind that they won't always have two Molten Giants in hand, or even one, and in the cases where they do, they might not have any taunt-givers in hand. If you don't ever play around Molten Giants, you will still win some games. If you can play around Molten Giants, you either want to put them low enough that you can finish with spells to face, or hold back a bit of damage to put them at a total where you can kill in one turn using a burst combo. Priest isn't very good at either of these, which is one reason they struggle vs Handlock.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #259 on: October 18, 2014, 04:44:59 pm »
+2

I think a lot of people try too hard to play around Molten Giants. If you don't have a burst combo to kill from over half health, then keeping your opponent over half health doesn't really do any good. Waiting just gives him more time to draw the Giants.
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markusin

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #260 on: October 18, 2014, 08:52:42 pm »
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I think a lot of people try too hard to play around Molten Giants. If you don't have a burst combo to kill from over half health, then keeping your opponent over half health doesn't really do any good. Waiting just gives him more time to draw the Giants.
Pretty much this if you're a Priest. I can't see Priest outliving handlock in the long term.
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nkirbit

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #261 on: October 19, 2014, 11:09:56 pm »
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I just opened a Grom, which gives me enough incentive to try and finally try out control warrior.  Anyone have a list they particularly like or would recommend?  Just looking around I see quite a variety of different lists, so if anyone has any lists they like that would be as good of a place as anywhere to start.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #262 on: October 19, 2014, 11:25:13 pm »
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^I'm currently playing control Warrior at rank 2, and my list is:
2x Execute
2x Shield Slam
2x Slam
2x Axe
2x Armorsmith
2x Taskmaster
2x Shield Block
2x Acolyte
2x Death's Bite
2x Korkron
1x Spellbreaker
1x Brawl
1x Faceless
2x Belcher
1x Sylvanas
1x Geddon
1x Grom
1x Rag
1x Alex

More "standard" control Warriors don't run Slam or Korkron or Geddon, and have Unstable Ghoul, BGH, Loatheb, Cairne and/or Ysera. My version is a little meta-specific. I see mostly a lot of decks based on overwhelming the board with small minions (Hunter, Shaman, Zoo), and I think Slam, Korkorn, and Geddon are all very good vs this without giving up too much vs slower decks. Unstable can potentially 2-for-1 or better when Slam won't, but if gives them some initiative to decide what hits the Ghoul. With Slam, you make sure the Knife Juggler (or whatever other priority target) is dead asap. Korkron is great vs stuff with 2 attack or less, since vs them it's nearly an Argent Commander for 2 mana less. And Geddon is a board clear that transitions into a threat, while vs control, it eats a BGH that would otherwise go to Rag or Alex. Slam is also fine vs control as you can cantrip it, and Korkron can sometimes give Priests a bit of trouble (though this deck is still a big underdog to control Priest).

EDIT: I should mention, a big selling point of this deck is that nearly 2/3 of the cards can affect the opponent's board the turn I play them, which makes it much harder for them to establish a board to overwhelm me with. This makes it not too much trouble to survive and then win when the big cards come out.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2014, 11:40:10 pm by HiveMindEmulator »
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ashersky

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #263 on: October 19, 2014, 11:36:46 pm »
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So I've risen higher than ever before in ranked (9 + 5 stars, which isn't much, but much better than before for me) using the sligh hunter deck, slightly modified:

1x Hunter's Mark
2x Undertaker
2x Webspinner
2x Explosive Trap
1x Snake Trap
2x Haunted Creeper
2x Knife Juggler
2x Mad Scientist
2x Scavenging Hyena
2x Eaglehorn Bow
2x Animal Companion
2x Kill Command
2x Unleash the Hounds
2x Houndmaster
1x Sludge Belcher
1x Leeroy Jenkins
2x Savannah Highmane

I'm finding the trouble I run into is Handlock, Priests, and Warriors built to outlast opponents.  They're generally removing my big threats (pumped up hyenas) and my usual removal doesn't work on giant minions (traps, lots of trading, juggled knives, etc.).

Should I think about adding some removal?  A second Hunter's Mark?  Explosive Shot?  I mean, Hunter's Mark + Snake Trap/Unleash gets rid of one big minion.  One or two Kill Commands can get another.  Leeroy can maybe take out another...but that's it.  But if I'm adding things in, what am I removing?

I've thought about trading out a Bow for a Hunter's Mark.  Or a Houndmaster for Deadly Shot?  Gladiator's Longbow?
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #264 on: October 19, 2014, 11:50:00 pm »
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^That deck is just a super-aggro deck. You're never going to get above 50% vs Control Warrior or Priest, though you should be fast enough to give Handlock trouble, and should get some wins vs the super-control decks when you draw well. I don't think you can get enough from adding more removal compared to what you lose in aggression. If the game goes past turn 8, you're in bad shape either way.
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KingZog3

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #265 on: October 20, 2014, 12:52:35 am »
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I've been seeing hunters with similar decks run Leper Gnomes. I haven't been too impressed by them yet, but they do ok. Sludge belcher seems out of place though. It's a slow card isn't it? Or is the value too good not have at least one in your deck?
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #266 on: October 20, 2014, 12:59:43 am »
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Sludge Belcher is in like every deck. It's just too good. In a control deck, it soaks up a bunch of damage from a more aggressive deck, and in the aggressive deck, it protects your other threats from being efficiently removed while sticking to the board to provide more damage itself (and also buffs undertaker).
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ashersky

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #267 on: October 20, 2014, 05:18:38 am »
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Sludge Belcher is in like every deck. It's just too good. In a control deck, it soaks up a bunch of damage from a more aggressive deck, and in the aggressive deck, it protects your other threats from being efficiently removed while sticking to the board to provide more damage itself (and also buffs undertaker).

This.  It can keep an undertaker alive for a highmane, for example.  The original ran two, I traded one out for Leeroy.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #268 on: October 20, 2014, 05:19:26 am »
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Sludge Belcher is in like every deck. It's just too good. In a control deck, it soaks up a bunch of damage from a more aggressive deck, and in the aggressive deck, it protects your other threats from being efficiently removed while sticking to the board to provide more damage itself (and also buffs undertaker).

This.  It can keep an undertaker alive for a highmane, for example.  The original ran two, I traded one out for Leeroy.

You also need some taunts or they just play around Snake Trap.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #269 on: October 23, 2014, 02:21:45 pm »
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I finally made Legend, with the Control Warrior deck I posted a few posts back. The matchup stats are pretty interesting. From rank 4 to legend, the deck went 42-22 breaking down as:
12-8 hunter
10-0 shaman
1-8 control warrior
5-1 zoolock
4-2 priest
2-2 handlock
2-1 miracle
5-0 other

Basically the deck did it's job of stomping down Hunter, Shaman, and Zoo (27-9, 75%) while being horrible vs more greedy Control Warrior decks (1-8, 11%). I think it should also be an underdog to Priest (though less so than other Control Warriors would be) and slightly to Handlock, but I was fortunate enough to be able to go 50%+ in those matchups.
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blueblimp

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #270 on: October 23, 2014, 03:29:11 pm »
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How many of those Shamans were bots?
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #271 on: October 23, 2014, 03:55:50 pm »
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3 or 4. The deck is actually really good vs Shaman.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #272 on: October 23, 2014, 05:13:48 pm »
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How can you tell the bots from the humans?
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #273 on: October 23, 2014, 06:07:21 pm »
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They don't hover over cards in their hand before playing them and all moves have the same amount of time between them.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #274 on: October 23, 2014, 06:45:35 pm »
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They don't hover over cards in their hand before playing them and all moves have the same amount of time between them.

Do they have usernames that seem randomized and/or in Chinese characters?
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