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Author Topic: Constructed General Discussion  (Read 270454 times)

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ashersky

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #175 on: September 09, 2014, 01:22:57 am »
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Would giants make any sense?  I often get up to 5 minions on the board just from the multiple Mirror Images, Secret Keepers, etc.

I briefly ran a Mountain Giant in the deck because I often had a card advantage in my deck (I bumped it out because it was usually not great to duplicate, the first was often cheap, but the second and third were often not). A Sea Giant might work in yours, or Frostwolf Warlords if you've got lots of little critters?

Generally, a great board for me has 3-4 Mirror Images, a Mana Wyrm, 1/2 Secret Keepers, and a growing Arcanist.  I could try the giant and azure drake instead of feugen/stalagg.
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Jorbles

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #176 on: September 09, 2014, 01:38:30 am »
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If I had an Ice Block (I don't) I might consider a second Arcanist, but right now I just can't see what it's good enough to replace. Drakes are too important for card draw and spell power, Water Elementals are too good against Warriors and Hunters, which is like 25-35% of what I'm facing right now, Loatheb's too good against everyone, and everything else that costs 4+ is minion removal which the deck needs. If Warriors and Hunters became less dominant I might put a second one back in instead of a Water Elemental, but right now I'd rather have the ability to freeze my opponent than a big threat. (3+ medium sized threats is harder for people to deal with I find, especially when they're out before flamestrike is castable.)

If you are finding that Feugen and Stalagg aren't doing it for you Azure might be good. It's a really good card in mage, but then I say that as someone who runs Arcane Missiles and Fireballs. Loatheb is an amazing 5 drop, and opponents really hate it when you duplicate him (3 turns of no spells). Loatheb would probably be my top recommendation for a 5 drop in a secret deck. If you end up with 3-4 cheap minions on your board often, a Sea Giant or a Frostwolf Warlord would both be great. (Frostwolf's are maybe not as big as Giants, but they are more reliable to get out earlier so it's a trade off.)
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ashersky

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #177 on: September 09, 2014, 01:42:31 am »
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If I had an Ice Block (I don't) I might consider a second Arcanist, but right now I just can't see what it's good enough to replace. Drakes are too important for card draw and spell power, Water Elementals are too good against Warriors and Hunters, which is like 25-35% of what I'm facing right now, Loatheb's too good against everyone, and everything else that costs 4+ is minion removal which the deck needs. If Warriors and Hunters became less dominant I might put a second one back in instead of a Water Elemental, but right now I'd rather have the ability to freeze my opponent than a big threat. (3+ medium sized threats is harder for people to deal with I find, especially when they're out before flamestrike is castable.)

If you are finding that Feugen and Stalagg aren't doing it for you Azure might be good. It's a really good card in mage, but then I say that as someone who runs Arcane Missiles and Fireballs. Loatheb is an amazing 5 drop, and opponents really hate it when you duplicate him (3 turns of no spells). Loatheb would probably be my top recommendation for a 5 drop in a secret deck. If you end up with 3-4 cheap minions on your board often, a Sea Giant or a Frostwolf Warlord would both be great. (Frostwolf's are maybe not as big as Giants, but they are more reliable to get out earlier so it's a trade off.)

Yeah, no Fireballs in my deck really changes the playstyle.  I have little use for spell power, really.

I can easily swap in an Azure Drake and Loatheb for the twins.

Any thoughts on Blizzard vs. Flamestrike?  I have three slots for them, and right now I have 1 Blizzard and 2 FS.
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Jorbles

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #178 on: September 09, 2014, 10:44:12 am »
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Any thoughts on Blizzard vs. Flamestrike?  I have three slots for them, and right now I have 1 Blizzard and 2 FS.

Sorry I don't have much experience with Blizzard, I've never owned it. It seems generally useful for clearing Zoo/Paladin boards and against aggro decks. It's more versatile than flamestrike as it is also capable of allowing you to ignore minions for a turn while you hit the face. I'd probably have to see how it plays honestly. It seems to lack oomph for it's cost, but it might not matter if you can burst someone down while the blizzard freezes everything. I like that it costs 6 so you can play it earlier against aggro decks. Flamestrike is too slow against them.
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theory

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #179 on: September 09, 2014, 10:51:36 am »
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One Blizzard + two Flamestrike seems overkill...I don't know how your deck plays but I can't imagine that any Mage deck wouldn't want to run Fireball.  It's just such a powerful spell.
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blueblimp

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #180 on: September 09, 2014, 02:50:58 pm »
+1

WRT secrets Mages, I quite like Ostkaka's mage list presented by Xixo in his Liquidhearth Open victory article. It did pretty well for me in the dying days of last season, going 25-11 at ranks 5-2, and certainly would have put me in legend with a few more hours of play. It doesn't commit overly much to secrets, just putting in enough to reliably get value from Mad Scientist's deathrattle (5), then throwing in Kirin Tor Mages so that you can play them from your hand for cheap, which makes sense to me since IMO the biggest weakness of Mad Scientist is that it forces you to put secrets in your deck that you're pretty unhappy to draw into your hand.
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Jorbles

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #181 on: September 09, 2014, 04:18:04 pm »
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WRT secrets Mages, I quite like Ostkaka's mage list presented by Xixo in his Liquidhearth Open victory article. It did pretty well for me in the dying days of last season, going 25-11 at ranks 5-2, and certainly would have put me in legend with a few more hours of play. It doesn't commit overly much to secrets, just putting in enough to reliably get value from Mad Scientist's deathrattle (5), then throwing in Kirin Tor Mages so that you can play them from your hand for cheap, which makes sense to me since IMO the biggest weakness of Mad Scientist is that it forces you to put secrets in your deck that you're pretty unhappy to draw into your hand.

Thanks for this!

The comments are worth reading, where they discuss secrets mage. I think what Ostkaka says regarding how many secrets should be in the deck is worth reading. 5 is a nice sweet spot for getting value out of them. I think you could maybe make 6 work, but any more than that would be overkill and less than 4 would make it difficult to get value out of KT Mage.

He also talks about Arcanist. He used to run 1 in it, but cut it to add a Gnomish Inventor because it didn't fit the curve of the deck with the amount of card draw he needed. I don't love Arcane Intellect, but it fits the curve of how I like to play the deck. (I always always mulligan it and only plan on playing it around turn 7+.) Plus I run Azures and an Acolyte for extra draw, which he doesn't have space for because he wants to have additional death rattles.

(Disclaimer: His deck is probably better than mine, and he's definitely a better player than me, but Secrets Mage is one of the few styles of deck I play a lot so I have opinions on it.)
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ashersky

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #182 on: September 09, 2014, 04:28:01 pm »
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One Blizzard + two Flamestrike seems overkill...I don't know how your deck plays but I can't imagine that any Mage deck wouldn't want to run Fireball.  It's just such a powerful spell.

I'm definitely not using the three for full board clears, but since more than three quarters of my games last well past ten turns, they become versatile removal spells.

You are right that I miss the Fireballs, though.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #183 on: September 10, 2014, 07:06:14 pm »
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One Blizzard + two Flamestrike seems overkill...I don't know how your deck plays but I can't imagine that any Mage deck wouldn't want to run Fireball.  It's just such a powerful spell.

I'm definitely not using the three for full board clears, but since more than three quarters of my games last well past ten turns, they become versatile removal spells.

You are right that I miss the Fireballs, though.

Okay, I crafted the epic Ice Block.  We'll see how that goes.  I traded it out for the single Ice Barrier I was running.
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Jorbles

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #184 on: September 10, 2014, 07:45:51 pm »
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That will probably improve things. Ice Barrier is a pretty meh spell. It's biggest effect on the game is that people have to play like it might be a better secret, only to be relieved to trigger Ice Barrier after possibly (but not necessarily) some sub-optimal play. It has no effect on the board and is basically just a delayed heal. Useful in Freeze mage where your win condition is just to outlast someone until you have the cards and mana to burst them down, but I don't think it's very useful in more typical mage decks.
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Kirian

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #185 on: September 14, 2014, 01:54:07 am »
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So I've decided to try more constructed.  I'm running with the following:  http://www.hearthhead.com/deck=71620/ramp-watcher

2x Innervate

2x Wrath
1x Mark of the Wild
1x Wild Growth
2x Ancient Watcher
2x Sunfury Protector

1x Harvest Golem
2x Savage Roar

2x Keeper of the Grove
2x Defender of Argus
1x Spellbreaker
1x Chillwind Yeti

2x Druid of the Claw
1x Stampeding Kodo
1x Harrison Jones
1x Loatheb

1x Force of Nature
1x Sunwalker

2x Ancient of Lore

Any thoughts/suggestions for substitutions?  My collection includes a second Sunwalker, an Ancient of War, a pair of Faceless Manipulators, and a pair of BGHs.  Sludge Belcher instead of Yeti or maybe one Defender?  An extra silence?

Obviously the deck is short on 2-drops.  Put in a couple good 3/2s instead of Wild Growth and perhaps Kodo?
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ashersky

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #186 on: September 14, 2014, 02:05:39 am »
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I would definitely drop the Wild Growth -- it never seems to be worth it.

You could go Faerie Dragon or Ooze.
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Titandrake

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #187 on: September 14, 2014, 02:41:47 am »
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It's okay to have a deck with a weak turn 2, but you need the late game to back it up. Not sure if you want the 2nd Savage Roar, seems like you only use it for the FoN + Savage Roar combo most of the time.

If you're seeing lots of Hunters, Harrison is okay, but otherwise I'd replace it for something else.

Definitely try to fit in a 1x BGH somewhere, your deck feels more controllish/late game and you don't have good answers for big threats. Drop Harvest/Kodo for it? Leaning more towards Kodo, your 3 mana spot is already a little lacking and BGH is not a card you play turn 3.
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Jorbles

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #188 on: September 14, 2014, 01:44:45 pm »
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Definitely try to fit in a 1x BGH somewhere, your deck feels more controllish/late game and you don't have good answers for big threats. Drop Harvest/Kodo for it? Leaning more towards Kodo, your 3 mana spot is already a little lacking and BGH is not a card you play turn 3.

I was actually thinking the same thing. Druid suffers from a lack of creature removal and BGH helps out a lot in that area. (Plus it can combo with Mark of Nature if you need to remove something with 5/6 health.)
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #189 on: September 14, 2014, 06:11:21 pm »
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You're not actually short on 2-drops. You have Innervate to play bigger stuff on turn 2, Wrath to remove their stuff, and Watchers and Sunfuries. And with all the taunt in the deck, you can give up a bit of tempo on turn 2 and still come out fine.
I'm not sold on Wild Growth in this deck since you don't really have anything to ramp into. The high end seems kind of lacking.
Harrison Jones is a meta card. If you're not seeing so many weapons, you can probably put something better here.
I also don't think Watcher decks need Kodo, since you deal with the aggro by taunting.
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KingZog3

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #190 on: September 16, 2014, 01:45:01 am »
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Kelthuzad is just so much fun. It seems people still haven't figured out how to play against him, and sometimes it's just game over if your opponent has minions he can kill. Plus double Kethuzad is just so awesome, I can't begin to express how enjoyable it is to see minions smash yours, and then yours rise back form the dead in doubles.
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Kirian

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #191 on: September 16, 2014, 01:54:03 am »
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You're not actually short on 2-drops. You have Innervate to play bigger stuff on turn 2, Wrath to remove their stuff, and Watchers and Sunfuries. And with all the taunt in the deck, you can give up a bit of tempo on turn 2 and still come out fine.
I'm not sold on Wild Growth in this deck since you don't really have anything to ramp into. The high end seems kind of lacking.
Harrison Jones is a meta card. If you're not seeing so many weapons, you can probably put something better here.
I also don't think Watcher decks need Kodo, since you deal with the aggro by taunting.

So I switched out Kodo for Faceless and Wild Growth for a BGH.  So far I'm... 4-8 with this deck, down near Rank 18.  Which doesn't bode too well.  Harrison right now is a liability though, I'm only rarely facing weapon classes.  A second Faceless, Azure Drake, maybe something else at 3?  Even a Loot Hoarder for the extra card...

I find my early game truly lacking; if I don't draw Watcher + something to activate it, or I draw Sunfury/Defender without any minions to turn... I end up dying to early aggro.

I wonder if it would be better to try to rank up with an aggro deck (or Zoolock because hey, it works and the game's over in 5-8 minutes) and then try this deck out at higher ranks against the meta, as opposed to spending 15 minutes per fight (where I am with this deck) and losing to crazy weird basic cards because I'm relying too much on good draws.

Or maybe I should just go back to Arena and working on getting better than 5 average over there.
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Titandrake

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #192 on: September 16, 2014, 02:07:18 am »
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If you're feeling like the early game is bad, and Harrison isn't great, then drop Harrison for a 3 drop. Second Harvest or Earthen Ring Farseer, maybe? Healing Touch isn't bad either, but I think I prefer Earthen Ring Farseer to Healing Touch.

Sen'jin is good if you want more early taunt. Wild Pyromancer is more potential board clear, Pyro + Wrath = Swipe and Pyro + Swipe will kill most boards.

Just noticed you don't list Swipe in the list, I'm assuming that's a typo because it's in the linked deck and it adds up to 28 cards. - Sunwalker, + Starfall? Sunwalker comes out a bit too late to save you against aggro IMO, it feels better against midrange decks. Whereas Starfall can wreck aggro and is just another board clear to have.
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ashersky

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #193 on: September 16, 2014, 02:25:36 am »
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You could run Power of the Wild x2.  A 3/2 or minion buff for a 2 drop that is almost always good.
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Jorbles

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #194 on: September 16, 2014, 12:48:24 pm »
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I wonder if it would be better to try to rank up with an aggro deck (or Zoolock because hey, it works and the game's over in 5-8 minutes) and then try this deck out at higher ranks against the meta, as opposed to spending 15 minutes per fight (where I am with this deck) and losing to crazy weird basic cards because I'm relying too much on good draws.

If you're having trouble with relying on good draws at rank 18 it probably won't do any better at higher ranks. Many of the decks you play there are decks that have churned their way through the lower ranks already with only minor tweaks. I'd suggest keep tweaking the deck you want until you find the right makeup to win consistently. Maybe try Senjins? Or Sludge Belchers? They're really good at slowing aggro decks down. Eggs are a possibility too as they combo nicely with most of the cards that you use to activate Ancient Watchers giving you more combo possibilities.
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Jorbles

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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #195 on: September 17, 2014, 12:15:21 pm »
+1

Just had some great value Counterspells against a Freeze mage deck. Counterspell #1 eats a Pyroblast, Counterspell #2 eats a Blizzard.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #196 on: September 18, 2014, 01:49:29 am »
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You're not actually short on 2-drops. You have Innervate to play bigger stuff on turn 2, Wrath to remove their stuff, and Watchers and Sunfuries. And with all the taunt in the deck, you can give up a bit of tempo on turn 2 and still come out fine.
I'm not sold on Wild Growth in this deck since you don't really have anything to ramp into. The high end seems kind of lacking.
Harrison Jones is a meta card. If you're not seeing so many weapons, you can probably put something better here.
I also don't think Watcher decks need Kodo, since you deal with the aggro by taunting.

So I switched out Kodo for Faceless and Wild Growth for a BGH.  So far I'm... 4-8 with this deck, down near Rank 18.  Which doesn't bode too well.  Harrison right now is a liability though, I'm only rarely facing weapon classes.  A second Faceless, Azure Drake, maybe something else at 3?  Even a Loot Hoarder for the extra card...

I find my early game truly lacking; if I don't draw Watcher + something to activate it, or I draw Sunfury/Defender without any minions to turn... I end up dying to early aggro.

I wonder if it would be better to try to rank up with an aggro deck (or Zoolock because hey, it works and the game's over in 5-8 minutes) and then try this deck out at higher ranks against the meta, as opposed to spending 15 minutes per fight (where I am with this deck) and losing to crazy weird basic cards because I'm relying too much on good draws.

Or maybe I should just go back to Arena and working on getting better than 5 average over there.

If you want more targets for the taunt-givers, Eggs could be nice. But yeah, your early game is lacking mostly in the turn 3-4 department. Defender and Spellbreaker need a Watcher to be useful, so you really only have 1 3-drop and 3 4-drops that you can play consistently. I would strive to add in another Yeti/Sen'jin and another 3-drop (Harvest/Farseer) somehow.
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #197 on: September 18, 2014, 11:12:50 am »
+1

I have lived the dream Warlock opening and that opening is this:
1: Coin-> Egg
2: Egg
3: Void Terror->"Your Soul Shall Suffer"

(It's worth the 8-10 damage you take setting it up, I did this against an aggro deck and was a little nervous, but it's big enough that it turns everything around.)
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #198 on: September 20, 2014, 08:40:25 am »
0

Can someone tell me how to beat Ysera?

Seems like without a 12 damage Snipe, it's autowin, since they get the dream card the turn they summon.

I survived awhile, but man, not much I can do.  I got mirror entity emerald drake, then he killed it so it duplicated.  Then I play them and he just does the kill everything but Ysera spell.  Then I cast a strong minion and he saps.  Ysera counters everything.  And with 4 attack, he's immune to shadow words.  Hex and Poly are the only two single card removals, I think.  Or silence, I guess.

But what's the secret?  Is there a card you need to run solely for Ysera possibilities?
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Re: Constructed General Discussion
« Reply #199 on: September 20, 2014, 09:16:24 am »
+2

Generally you beat Ysera by not giving them a turn they can afford to spend 9 mana to play her. She affects the board not at all the turn you play her, so they basically skip a turn. If your board is threatening enough, then she never gets played because then you'll just win. It's not like they can play Flamestrike and Ysera in the same turn.
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