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Author Topic: New Promo at Origins...  (Read 127454 times)

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LastFootnote

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #275 on: June 19, 2014, 08:30:37 am »
0

Prince of coppersmiths could be a thing. The coppersmith gives you 8 coin hands and then the prince of coppersmiths lets you build a drawing deck for the rest of the game.

That's my favorite Prince so far.

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=10337.msg387793#msg387793
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enfynet

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #276 on: June 19, 2014, 11:12:32 am »
0

I just used Coppersmith IRL to get an early Province for Tournament.
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silverspawn

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #277 on: June 19, 2014, 11:47:47 am »
0

Prince of coppersmiths could be a thing. The coppersmith gives you 8 coin hands and then the prince of coppersmiths lets you build a drawing deck for the rest of the game.
orly

SirPeebles

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #278 on: June 19, 2014, 11:51:12 am »
0

I can tell that the analysis is maturing when we've moved from "Prince + X would be awesome!"  to "Prince + Y would be good, and Y helps you get Prince / pair them together"
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werothegreat

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #279 on: June 19, 2014, 03:27:42 pm »
0

So who's going to write the Prince strategy article?
« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 03:49:18 pm by werothegreat »
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SirPeebles

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #280 on: June 19, 2014, 03:28:18 pm »
0

So how's going to write the Prince strategy article?

It's way too soon.
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how

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #281 on: June 19, 2014, 03:33:16 pm »
+40

So how's going to write the Prince strategy article?

Yes, I will be writing it.
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GeoLib

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #282 on: June 19, 2014, 04:34:34 pm »
+2

So how's going to write the Prince strategy article?

Yes, I will be writing it.

Solid first post for a good respect:post ratio
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sudgy

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #283 on: June 19, 2014, 04:40:27 pm »
0

So how's going to write the Prince strategy article?

Yes, I will be writing it.

Solid first post for a good respect:post ratio

I've seen a lot of first posts get a good respect:post ratio...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

pacovf

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #284 on: June 19, 2014, 06:57:25 pm »
0

The question is... how is really who?

It could be wero, afterall he was the one that set it up. But my money is on Peebles.
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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #285 on: June 19, 2014, 07:00:45 pm »
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/inbefore Who's on First jokes.
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sudgy

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #286 on: June 19, 2014, 07:10:13 pm »
0

The question is... how is really who?

It could be wero, afterall he was the one that set it up. But my money is on Peebles.

Theory can figure out.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

werothegreat

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #287 on: June 19, 2014, 07:42:00 pm »
0

The question is... how is really who?

It could be wero, afterall he was the one that set it up. But my money is on Peebles.

'Twasn't me.  If you'll notice, I fixed my typographical error.
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liopoil

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #288 on: June 19, 2014, 07:46:53 pm »
+5

The question is... how is really who?

It could be wero, afterall he was the one that set it up. But my money is on Peebles.

'Twasn't me.  If you'll notice, I fixed my typographical error.
oh wow, I missed the typo and thought that the "how" username was a play on the Dominion strategy articles written by the website ehow: http://www.ehow.com/how_4671616_use-bureaucrat-dominion.html
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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #289 on: June 19, 2014, 08:10:51 pm »
+5

was it eHowcylon?
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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #290 on: June 20, 2014, 11:39:31 pm »
+3

Edge case-y question (apologies if this has already been covered):

Suppose I Prince a Mining Village. Next turn, Prince plays it and I choose to trash it for cash. Then I Rogue it out of the trash, draw it back somehow, and play it again, all on the same turn. Does that mean that it will still be set aside for Prince next turn? If so, suppose I have multiple Mining Villages in my deck--how am I to determine which one was the Princely one, or would any old Mining Village do?
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LastFootnote

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #291 on: June 20, 2014, 11:45:19 pm »
+7

Edge case-y question (apologies if this has already been covered):

Suppose I Prince a Mining Village. Next turn, Prince plays it and I choose to trash it for cash. Then I Rogue it out of the trash, draw it back somehow, and play it again, all on the same turn. Does that mean that it will still be set aside for Prince next turn? If so, suppose I have multiple Mining Villages in my deck--how am I to determine which one was the Princely one, or would any old Mining Village do?

Donald actually answered this one for me. When you trash the Mining Village, you lose track. So even if you put it back in play on the same turn, Prince stops setting it aside and playing it.
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Lord Humanton

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #292 on: June 21, 2014, 12:17:54 am »
0

Barring discard attacks and trash for benefit or multi-Prince shenanigans, princing a Scheme is strictly better than princing a Smithy because you can always at least Scheme the Smithy and play it as your first action each turn, which is functionally equivalent to princing a Smithy, but you can also choose to play something else first (say, Fishing Village - Watchtower) or scheme another card this turn. Hence a princed Scheme gives you greater flexibility.

I disagree that it's strictly better, because you're essentially sacrificing the Scheme card. In other words, if I'm using Prince of Schemes to play Smithy as my first action each turn, that takes up the Prince, Scheme, and Smithy cards from my deck to do it; whereas if I'm using Prince of Smithy, I still have the Scheme milling around in my deck (which is now fast-cycling) to use additionally on something else.

That said, Prince of Scheme is awesome when you have nice $5+ cards.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #293 on: June 21, 2014, 01:30:07 am »
0

Barring discard attacks and trash for benefit or multi-Prince shenanigans, princing a Scheme is strictly better than princing a Smithy because you can always at least Scheme the Smithy and play it as your first action each turn, which is functionally equivalent to princing a Smithy, but you can also choose to play something else first (say, Fishing Village - Watchtower) or scheme another card this turn. Hence a princed Scheme gives you greater flexibility.

I disagree that it's strictly better, because you're essentially sacrificing the Scheme card. In other words, if I'm using Prince of Schemes to play Smithy as my first action each turn, that takes up the Prince, Scheme, and Smithy cards from my deck to do it; whereas if I'm using Prince of Smithy, I still have the Scheme milling around in my deck (which is now fast-cycling) to use additionally on something else.

That said, Prince of Scheme is awesome when you have nice $5+ cards.

Are you still working for Goko? If so, are you guys working on implementing this card soon?
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Lord Humanton

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #294 on: June 21, 2014, 02:17:26 am »
+9

Barring discard attacks and trash for benefit or multi-Prince shenanigans, princing a Scheme is strictly better than princing a Smithy because you can always at least Scheme the Smithy and play it as your first action each turn, which is functionally equivalent to princing a Smithy, but you can also choose to play something else first (say, Fishing Village - Watchtower) or scheme another card this turn. Hence a princed Scheme gives you greater flexibility.

I disagree that it's strictly better, because you're essentially sacrificing the Scheme card. In other words, if I'm using Prince of Schemes to play Smithy as my first action each turn, that takes up the Prince, Scheme, and Smithy cards from my deck to do it; whereas if I'm using Prince of Smithy, I still have the Scheme milling around in my deck (which is now fast-cycling) to use additionally on something else.

That said, Prince of Scheme is awesome when you have nice $5+ cards.

Are you still working for Goko? If so, are you guys working on implementing this card soon?

Oh, my profile! No, no, I left Goko last year. But Goko isn't implementing anything for Dominion Online anymore. Making Fun took over hosting it. I've joined Making Fun, because I love Dominion. I'm the only one though: none of the other 30 or so people who were at Goko at one time are involved in Dominion Online now. It's an entirely new team. The code is holding us back is the code :-) but we'll have an announcement on that shortly.

Anyway, one of the things I did is write the AI, so yes, I'm just starting to figure out how Prince should play in order to implement it in the AI. Which cards to play is always interesting... here is a start:

Awful: Prince (duh!), Tactician (>$4), duration cards, Island, a knight (unless you got it from the Black Market deck instead of a knights pile), Feast/Deathcart/other self-trashing cards other than Hermit
Bad because really dangerous: Remake, Rats
Pretty bad because dangerous: Bishop & other forced trashing cards
Might be bad due to forced play of actions: Throne Room
Suboptimal: Shanty Town, Menagerie, Treasury(>$4)/Walled Village, Fortress, Watchtower/Library/JoaT (unless there's a discard attack)
Good: everything else -- Monument, Smithy, Militia, Scheme, etc.
Awesome: Prizes

« Last Edit: June 21, 2014, 03:16:22 am by Lord Humanton »
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KingZog3

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #295 on: June 21, 2014, 03:02:35 am »
0

Barring discard attacks and trash for benefit or multi-Prince shenanigans, princing a Scheme is strictly better than princing a Smithy because you can always at least Scheme the Smithy and play it as your first action each turn, which is functionally equivalent to princing a Smithy, but you can also choose to play something else first (say, Fishing Village - Watchtower) or scheme another card this turn. Hence a princed Scheme gives you greater flexibility.

I disagree that it's strictly better, because you're essentially sacrificing the Scheme card. In other words, if I'm using Prince of Schemes to play Smithy as my first action each turn, that takes up the Prince, Scheme, and Smithy cards from my deck to do it; whereas if I'm using Prince of Smithy, I still have the Scheme milling around in my deck (which is now fast-cycling) to use additionally on something else.

That said, Prince of Scheme is awesome when you have nice $5+ cards.

Are you still working for Goko? If so, are you guys working on implementing this card soon?

Oh, my profile! No, no, I left Goko last year. But Goko isn't implementing anything for Dominion Online anymore. Making Fun took over hosting it. I've joined Making Fun, because I love Dominion. I'm the only one though: none of the other 30 or so people who were at Goko at one time are involved in Dominion Online now. It's an entirely new team. The code is holding us back is the code :-) but we'll have an announcement on that shortly.

Anyway, one of the things I did is write the AI, so yes, I'm just starting to figure out how Prince should play in order to implement it in the AI. Which cards to play is always interesting... here is a start:

Awful: Prince (duh!), Tactician, duration cards, Island, a knight (unless you got it from the Black Market deck instead of a knights pile), Feast/Deathcart/other self-trashing cards other than Hermit
Bad because really dangerous: Remake, Rats
Pretty bad because dangerous: Bishop & other forced trashing cards
Might be bad due to forced play of actions: Throne Room
Suboptimal: Shanty Town, Menagerie, Watchtower/Library/JoaT (unless there's a discard attack)
Good: everything else -- Monument, Smithy, Militia, Scheme, etc.
Awesome: Prizes

I'd imagine the forced Throne Room play is really minor. It essentially never happens that you're forced into something you don't want to play because you Throned a Throne Room. KC and TR go in the good category for sure.
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Lord Humanton

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #296 on: June 21, 2014, 03:30:44 am »
0

Might be bad due to forced play of actions: Throne Room

I'd imagine the forced Throne Room play is really minor. It essentially never happens that you're forced into something you don't want to play because you Throned a Throne Room.

That's because you have a choice whether or not to play the first Throne Room. But not so after you've chosen a Prince of Throne Rooms. You have to play it regardless, so consider the value of a Prince of Throne Rooms in a deck with a Rats, Remake, etc... Sounds scarier than a Golem.
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Donald X.

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #297 on: June 21, 2014, 05:20:27 am »
+5

Awful: Prince (duh!), Tactician (>$4), duration cards, Island, a knight (unless you got it from the Black Market deck instead of a knights pile), Feast/Deathcart/other self-trashing cards other than Hermit
Bad because really dangerous: Remake, Rats
Pretty bad because dangerous: Bishop & other forced trashing cards
Might be bad due to forced play of actions: Throne Room
Suboptimal: Shanty Town, Menagerie, Treasury(>$4)/Walled Village, Fortress, Watchtower/Library/JoaT (unless there's a discard attack)
Good: everything else -- Monument, Smithy, Militia, Scheme, etc.
Awesome: Prizes
If you draw Prince with only one possible "suboptimal" target, odds are you want to Prince that card. A minor bonus blows up. Prince of Pearl Divers, that's an extra card and action every turn - it's like starting every turn by playing a Lab and a Village (and hey you get to do the Pearl Diver thing). So I mean. Prince of Fortresses? Go for it. Prince of Watchtowers, that's not what you wanted, but drawing an extra card every turn is a lot better than waiting to draw Prince again and see if you are luckier next time. Okay Prince of Jacks is not good except under attacks, but Prince of Menageries, that's pretty sweet. Prince of Treasuries has no issues when it's possible, you don't get to put it on your deck and hey do not wish to either.

For that matter, one-shots are bad since they don't work, but if you draw Prince with Death Cart and no other targets, man, Prince the Death Cart and hope you keep drawing actions to feed it. When it's not worth it, let it go. You only need it for a few turns to make out.

Forced trashing is sometimes bad, but not Bishop, that's a deck, the Prince of Bishops is making you VP every turn.

Prince of Thrones will usually be great, but obv. you might have a deck where it was too scary. It's not a question of if you'll draw that Remake; it's when, and what with. Well, the game could end before you draw it.

The problem with Prince of Ruined Libraries is that your deck probably has more Ruins and so that extra card is not so hot. I might pass there. Prince of Abandoned Mines I would at least consider, how big is my deck anyway, maybe big enough that I should just live with this.

Sea Hag is a poor target if the Curses are low, and since you have a Sea Hag, they probably are.
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SCSN

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #298 on: June 21, 2014, 07:22:15 am »
+1

Barring discard attacks and trash for benefit or multi-Prince shenanigans, princing a Scheme is strictly better than princing a Smithy because you can always at least Scheme the Smithy and play it as your first action each turn, which is functionally equivalent to princing a Smithy, but you can also choose to play something else first (say, Fishing Village - Watchtower) or scheme another card this turn. Hence a princed Scheme gives you greater flexibility.

I disagree that it's strictly better, because you're essentially sacrificing the Scheme card. In other words, if I'm using Prince of Schemes to play Smithy as my first action each turn, that takes up the Prince, Scheme, and Smithy cards from my deck to do it; whereas if I'm using Prince of Smithy, I still have the Scheme milling around in my deck (which is now fast-cycling) to use additionally on something else.

That said, Prince of Scheme is awesome when you have nice $5+ cards.

You're right that it just isn't "strictly better", I shouldn't have used that phrase, just imagine it being replaced by "generally preferable".

I'm happy, though, that my sloppiness got you to confirm that you guys are working on implementing Prince :)

Quote
I've joined Making Fun, because I love Dominion. I'm the only one though: none of the other 30 or so people who were at Goko at one time are involved in Dominion Online now. It's an entirely new team. The code is holding us back is the code :-) but we'll have an announcement on that shortly.

That's good to hear. People here have a lot of questions about where, if anywhere, Dominion Online is going, if you guys are still making any effort improving the product (which shouldn't be too hardócommenting out some random code will likely be an improvement), whether the stability issues will be addressed on a fundamental enough level, whether the messy hell that constitutes your codebase is going to be redesigned from scratch, etc.

It would be great if you could shed some light on any of this. Many of usóme includedóhave grown pretty cynical about the Dominion Online implementation, which often is more fun to bash than it is to use, but I'd be the first to applaud any genuine effort to patch up the sinking ship and take it to the nearest island for a rigorous overhaul.
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thespaceinvader

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #299 on: June 21, 2014, 08:27:36 am »
0

But the context in which we said it was good was precisely in response to discard attacks or with Outpost.  I've played plenty of games where I was bound to be hit with a Militia by at least one of my opponents every turn.  This is only more likely when they have access to Prince as well.
Well, in those cases it's very good, but still only as good as Smithy. It's incredibly good against Torturer, though.
Interestingly, prince of torturers is itself a non-awful defence against torturers...
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