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Author Topic: New Promo at Origins...  (Read 141398 times)

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azadin

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #175 on: June 13, 2014, 05:20:50 pm »
0

If you have a Prince of Band of Misfits, do you get to keep changing the card or does it lock in like for Throne Room?

Doesn't Band of Misfits say it becomes the other card until it leaves play? And playing the card is when it becomes another card? I think setting it aside qualifies as leaving play, and playing it the next turn as a Band of Misfits lets you choose a card again.
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Schneau

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #176 on: June 13, 2014, 05:23:16 pm »
+4

I was curious how many Kingdom cards Prince does work with, considering there are quite a few it either flat out doesn't really help (Durations), can't work on (Potion-cost), or require cost reducers (cards costing more than $4). Here are my numbers, which might be slightly off:

Durations (8 cards)
Potion-cost cards (10 cards)
One-Shots (Embargo, Island, Feast, Treasure Map, Pillage, Prince)
Non-Actions (23 cards)
Cards costing greater than $4 - requires cost reducer (83 cards, including 19 from above categories)

Total Kingdom Cards you can Prince: 206 - 111 = 95 cards you can normally Prince (46% of Kingdom cards)

There are also some non-Kingdom cards you can Prince:
Necropolis
Ruins (5 cards)
Mercenary (Madman doesn't work)
Prizes (4 cards)

Total: 10 cards

Even though I'm excited to try out Prince, I am slightly disappointed how many cards it just doesn't work with. And this doesn't even include some cards that would almost always be bad cards to Prince (many forced trashers and Ambassador).
« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 06:05:16 pm by Schneau »
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theory

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #177 on: June 13, 2014, 05:26:29 pm »
+2

omg ... Possess someone and then appoint a Prince of Ambassadors or a Prince of Lookouts ...

Also this might be the only way to Band of Misfits a $4 card, right?
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liopoil

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #178 on: June 13, 2014, 05:32:00 pm »
0

omg ... Possess someone and then appoint a Prince of Ambassadors or a Prince of Lookouts ...

Also this might be the only way to Band of Misfits a $4 card, right?
remake is the best one - TWO cards...

you can always BoM a $4 card...
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Awaclus

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #179 on: June 13, 2014, 05:36:54 pm »
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remake is the best one - TWO cards...
Plus you gain something cool whenever you Possess him.
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eHalcyon

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #180 on: June 13, 2014, 05:55:29 pm »
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Shelters (5 cards)

You mean Ruins.
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Schneau

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #181 on: June 13, 2014, 06:05:26 pm »
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werothegreat

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #182 on: June 13, 2014, 06:15:30 pm »
0

So what happens to an abandoned Prince?  Like, say, you Prince a Feast - does he stay set aside for the rest of the game?
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GendoIkari

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #183 on: June 13, 2014, 06:17:50 pm »
0

In addition to the $8 price point, NOT getting to play your action on the turn you set it aside is a small penalty as well.

Not a huge thing, but something to consider, especially if it is a vital attack, etc.

And a penalty of the possibility of drawing it without any $4 or less actions.
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Donald X.

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #184 on: June 13, 2014, 06:44:57 pm »
+2

You can use Prince on a duration card and there are edge-cases where it could be the play. It's not very effective though, you will play the duration card on your next turn and then Prince will lose it forever. But I mean, maybe you really wanted to save that duration card for next turn.

When you say "Prince will lose it forever", do you mean it'll be cleaned up and go back into your discard pile like normal (and thus stop being played by Prince that way), or do you mean it'll end up set aside and out of your deck forever (but still not being played by Prince)? The wording of Prince seems to suggest the latter—it tells you to set aside the Princed card when you discard it from play. So your Princed Caravan gets set aside when discarded from play, but since it wasn't discarded on the same turn you played it, it doesn't get played again and remains in set-aside-land forever.

It goes to the discard. What happens if you prince a Caravan is this:

Turn N: Prince-Caravan, both the Caravan and Prince are set aside.

Turn N+1: The set aside Caravan is played at the beginning of your turn. Because it's a duration, it won't be discarded from play at the end of this turn, hence Prince can't set it aside and by the parenthetical clause on the card will stop playing it, thus "losing it forever".

Turn N+2: You draw a card from the Caravan that's now totally disconnected from Prince, at the end of your turn it goes to the discard as usual.

Actually, the parenthesis says to stop playing it, not to stop setting it aside, and the setting aside (when played by Prince) is not conditional on being played, so I think Caravan should be set aside and lost forever too after being discarded at the end of turn N+2.
SCSN has it right. If Prince fails to set the card aside that turn, Prince is done doing things to the card. I see that this is not clear on the card - it could say "when you discard it from play that turn." The parenthetical is trying to get that in.
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Donald X.

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #185 on: June 13, 2014, 06:45:46 pm »
+4

If you have a Prince of Band of Misfits, do you get to keep changing the card or does it lock in like for Throne Room?

Doesn't Band of Misfits say it becomes the other card until it leaves play? And playing the card is when it becomes another card? I think setting it aside qualifies as leaving play, and playing it the next turn as a Band of Misfits lets you choose a card again.
Correct, you can pick a new card for Band of Misfits each time.
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Donald X.

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #186 on: June 13, 2014, 06:47:00 pm »
+2

omg ... Possess someone and then appoint a Prince of Ambassadors or a Prince of Lookouts ...
I have seen an intentional Prince of Ambassadors; I think he won, too. Things were that bad.
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GendoIkari

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #187 on: June 13, 2014, 06:48:30 pm »
+17

So what happens to an abandoned Prince?  Like, say, you Prince a Feast - does he stay set aside for the rest of the game?

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AJD

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #188 on: June 13, 2014, 06:58:50 pm »
0

it leaves play each turn, so you can change it each turn

That doesn't help for Throne Room–Band of Misfits (Feast).

i dont think throned cards enter play several times

They don't; but with Throne Room–Band of Misfits (Feast), the Band of Misfits leaves play and gets played again, but you don't get to redesignate it as something else the second time you play it. So with Prince–Band of Misfits, the Band of Misfits leaves play and gets played again, and I don't know whether you can redesignate it as something else the second time you play it.

but BoM doesn't enter play a second time even if it imitates feast, it's in the trash after the first time, and only a phantom copy gets played the second time

So? I don't see why it matters whether or not something gets moved to the play area for resolving the instructions on these cards.
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AJD

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #189 on: June 13, 2014, 07:03:24 pm »
0

(Anyhow, I see Donald X has answered the question at the root of this. Though I still don't really understand why Throne Room and Prince work differently in this respect.)
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amalloy

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #190 on: June 13, 2014, 07:15:40 pm »
+2

(Anyhow, I see Donald X has answered the question at the root of this. Though I still don't really understand why Throne Room and Prince work differently in this respect.)

With Prince, the BoM is entering play, leaving play, and entering play again, as part of resolving Prince multiple times. When BoM enters play the second time, its text instructs you to pick a card for it to imitate.

With Throne Room, the BoM enters play, leaves play, and then is played again, but does not enter play again; this happens as part of resolving the Throne Room exactly once, and the card that it throned was Feast; whether that card is still Feast now that it's in the trash does not impact what happens when you play Feast a second time.
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AJD

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #191 on: June 13, 2014, 07:20:13 pm »
+2

(Anyhow, I see Donald X has answered the question at the root of this. Though I still don't really understand why Throne Room and Prince work differently in this respect.)

With Prince, the BoM is entering play, leaving play, and entering play again, as part of resolving Prince multiple times. When BoM enters play the second time, its text instructs you to pick a card for it to imitate.

With Throne Room, the BoM enters play, leaves play, and then is played again, but does not enter play again;

But, as I say above, Band of Misfits tells you what happens when you "play this", not when it "enters play".
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Donald X.

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #192 on: June 13, 2014, 09:00:45 pm »
0

(Anyhow, I see Donald X has answered the question at the root of this. Though I still don't really understand why Throne Room and Prince work differently in this respect.)

With Prince, the BoM is entering play, leaving play, and entering play again, as part of resolving Prince multiple times. When BoM enters play the second time, its text instructs you to pick a card for it to imitate.

With Throne Room, the BoM enters play, leaves play, and then is played again, but does not enter play again;

But, as I say above, Band of Misfits tells you what happens when you "play this", not when it "enters play".
Band of Misfits reverts to being a Band of Misfits when it leaves play, which happens when you set it aside (the set aside area is not "in play").
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dominator 123

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #193 on: June 13, 2014, 09:20:17 pm »
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What happens if you have 3 Princed Conspirators? Is any of them activated?
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amalloy

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #194 on: June 13, 2014, 09:47:28 pm »
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What happens if you have 3 Princed Conspirators? Is any of them activated?

The last one is. The Princes are not themselves played this turn, but the cards they play for you are.
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soulnet

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #195 on: June 13, 2014, 09:54:29 pm »
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SCSN has it right. If Prince fails to set the card aside that turn, Prince is done doing things to the card. I see that this is not clear on the card - it could say "when you discard it from play that turn." The parenthetical is trying to get that in.

Sorry for nitpicking, but is this a ruling or you are claiming the actual text on the card implies this? If its the latter, I still don't see it. And Ironworks/Trader has made a nitpicker out of me.
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Donald X.

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #196 on: June 13, 2014, 09:56:39 pm »
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SCSN has it right. If Prince fails to set the card aside that turn, Prince is done doing things to the card. I see that this is not clear on the card - it could say "when you discard it from play that turn." The parenthetical is trying to get that in.

Sorry for nitpicking, but is this a ruling or you are claiming the actual text on the card implies this? If its the latter, I still don't see it. And Ironworks/Trader has made a nitpicker out of me.
I see that this is not clear on the card.
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silvern

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #197 on: June 13, 2014, 10:02:35 pm »
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This is actually pretty good, given that it would be set out with the other ruins/a looter.
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GendoIkari

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #198 on: June 13, 2014, 10:19:22 pm »
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This is actually pretty good, given that it would be set out with the other ruins/a looter.

True, this would actually be way overpowered in a Looters game.
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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #199 on: June 14, 2014, 07:27:47 am »
+9

Has anyone ever met "Prince Hamlet"? ;)

Yeah, and I wondered why it took so long to point out "Prince of Monuments". And noone even mentioned the "Prince of Cellars". :(

Did you ever know about Harald, the "Herald prince"?

The "Prince of Bridges" seems to be really cool, too, since you can then gain 5-costs.
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