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Author Topic: New Promo at Origins...  (Read 141059 times)

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Donald X.

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #100 on: June 12, 2014, 06:19:01 pm »
+32

So mechanics question. Does the cost of the card you set aside have to be 4 the first time you play Prince, or does its cost have to be 4 or less at the end of each turn from then on out? The wording seems to imply that it only has to cost 4 when you initially play Prince and set the card aside with it. This seems crazy strong.

Also, if you Prince the King's Court, and play a duration card with it, would the King's Court get set back on the Prince, or would it go with the duration card, thereby losing it's Prince status afterward?
It only has to cost $4 when you play Prince, and a Prince'd Throne will lose its magic if you use it on a duration card.

Prince FAQ

Prince has you play the same cheap action every turn for the rest of the game. The turn you play Prince, you set it aside with an Action from your hand costing $4 or less; then every turn after that you play the Action at the start of the turn, and then set it aside again when you discard it from play. If you don't discard the Action then you stop playing it with Prince; Prince at that point is just set aside doing nothing for the rest of the game. That won't normally happen but will happen for example if the Action is a Feast or Mining Village and you trashed it, or if it's a duration card and so it stayed in play, or if it's a Madman and was returned to its pile, or if it's an Island and was set aside, or if it's a card you put back on your deck with Scheme. In practice you will probably not choose to set aside Prince with a card that won't work well with it, and so will play the Action you set aside every turn from that point on. The set aside Action technically goes back and forth from being in play to being set aside each turn, but in practice it's easier to leave it sitting on the Prince and just announce resolving it each turn.

Prince has to be set aside to do anything; using Throne Room on Prince won't let you set aside two cards. The Action card you set aside has to cost $4 at the time you play Prince, but can normally cost more; for example you could play a Highway, then use Prince on a Laboratory. You do not play the set aside Action the turn you first set it aside with Prince. Playing the card each turn doesn't use up your normal Action play, and is mandatory; setting aside the Action when you discard it from play is also mandatory, you only fail to do it if the card isn't in play at that point. At the end of the game, Prince and the set aside card are returned to your deck before scoring. When you have multiple effects to resolve at the start of the turn - such as multiple Princes and certain duration cards from Seaside - resolve them in any order, and that order may vary from turn to turn; choose one to resolve, resolve it, then move on to another one, until they are all resolved. Cards which cost $0* such as Mercenary and the Cornucopia Prizes can be set aside with a Prince, as can cards from Guilds that cost $2+ or $3+ or $4+. Cards with a Potion in the cost cannot be set aside with Prince. Prince plays its Action on extra turns from Outpost and Possession. The Action card that Prince plays is in play after it's played each turn, so it will count for things like Peddler; Prince however remains set aside.
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Donald X.

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #101 on: June 12, 2014, 06:23:43 pm »
+1

Interesting that this card has an accountability hole. If you set it aside but don't have any <=$4 action card in your hand, you aren't required to show your hand to your opponents. Of course, this is unlikely to ever happen.
Yeah, after realizing that I'd missed accountability on some early cards and swearing to do better, I've ended up not always including it, because of the confusion or extra text. Graverobber also intentionally didn't include the accountability.
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Donald X.

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #102 on: June 12, 2014, 06:30:20 pm »
+1

Why isn't Prince a Duration card? (Just so the whole Seaside rulebook doesn't have to be included with it, I guess.)

Using Prince on a Duration card fails, right?

And now I'm super-confused about what using Prince on Prince would do.

Some wiki-editing is in order, but I don't have time to do it right now.
At some point in there Prince tried to be a duration card, on the grounds that it kept doing stuff. It doesn't fit what duration cards actually mean at all though; really the entirety of duration cards is, you leave them in play until they're done. Prince isn't in play. (I'm pretty sure I also tried a version that was in play.)

You can use Prince on a duration card and there are edge-cases where it could be the play. It's not very effective though, you will play the duration card on your next turn and then Prince will lose it forever. But I mean, maybe you really wanted to save that duration card for next turn.

Prince on Prince is not very useful.
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Donald X.

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #103 on: June 12, 2014, 06:33:48 pm »
+2

Maybe I missed it, but I'm surprised nobody else commented on the set icon. It's confusion (I think)! It fits perfectly!
I do not know what the icon is intended to mean.

Also, Highway, Prince on Tactician; on my opponent's turn I discard my hand to Torturers; play Tactician, fail to discard anything, discard it from play, set it aside again.
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elahrairah13

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #104 on: June 12, 2014, 06:53:36 pm »
0

Guess the other question is '[when] will Goko get this?"
Having no inside information whatsoever, at this point my first guess is never. As always I have to concede to the possibility that they've been rewriting the entire program from scratch and then everyone had to take maternity leave.

I kind of love you.
(note: not in a stalker way)
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elahrairah13

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #105 on: June 12, 2014, 06:55:11 pm »
+3

My objection to "Princing a Prince" not being useful is that it would lead to more in-game singing of:
and we should have more of that, when you think about it
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soulnet

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #106 on: June 12, 2014, 07:33:14 pm »
+1

Interesting that this card has an accountability hole. If you set it aside but don't have any <=$4 action card in your hand, you aren't required to show your hand to your opponents. Of course, this is unlikely to ever happen.

Forced playing of Prince with Golem, Herald or TR-TR-draw may make it happen. It is unlikely, but not unlikely enough that it will NEVER happen. However, I guess you can choose not to set aside Prince if you are forced to play it, so an edge case would be to want the Prince out of your deck. I guess if you anticipante this being the next-to-last of your turns and you need the Action now, it can happen. Golem into Prince and draw, play Prince first, set it aside, play draw, continue to play action claiming you just drew them.
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ashersky

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #107 on: June 12, 2014, 08:53:33 pm »
0

In addition to the $8 price point, NOT getting to play your action on the turn you set it aside is a small penalty as well.

Not a huge thing, but something to consider, especially if it is a vital attack, etc.
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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #108 on: June 12, 2014, 11:14:25 pm »
+2

So, if you play the Prince and set it aside but don't have an appropriate card to set aside with it, is the Prince essentially lost to use? I'm thinking of this in context of the rare occasion I Possess my opponent and a Prince happens to be in his hand.
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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #109 on: June 12, 2014, 11:19:56 pm »
+2

Finally, the wait is over! My fingernails can start regrowing.
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eHalcyon

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #110 on: June 13, 2014, 12:20:12 am »
+1

So, if you play the Prince and set it aside but don't have an appropriate card to set aside with it, is the Prince essentially lost to use? I'm thinking of this in context of the rare occasion I Possess my opponent and a Prince happens to be in his hand.

Yes, it's lost for the rest of the game.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #111 on: June 13, 2014, 12:45:35 am »
0

So, is there anyone who is at Origins that would not mind picking me up one of those Prince cards?
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enfynet

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #112 on: June 13, 2014, 12:46:38 am »
0

Finally, the wait is over! My fingernails can start regrowing.
You already have it? Because I'm going to be checking the BGG store daily until I can order it. So no fingernails for me yet...
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AJD

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #113 on: June 13, 2014, 12:55:03 am »
+2

You can use Prince on a duration card and there are edge-cases where it could be the play. It's not very effective though, you will play the duration card on your next turn and then Prince will lose it forever. But I mean, maybe you really wanted to save that duration card for next turn.

When you say "Prince will lose it forever", do you mean it'll be cleaned up and go back into your discard pile like normal (and thus stop being played by Prince that way), or do you mean it'll end up set aside and out of your deck forever (but still not being played by Prince)? The wording of Prince seems to suggest the latter—it tells you to set aside the Princed card when you discard it from play. So your Princed Caravan gets set aside when discarded from play, but since it wasn't discarded on the same turn you played it, it doesn't get played again and remains in set-aside-land forever.
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jomini

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #114 on: June 13, 2014, 01:55:40 am »
0

So my fun initial thoughts with Prince:
1. Prince pins have a lot of wild and crazy options. The simplest thing as that we have a new no-attack pin option - Prince x5/Masq x5; I could completely see setting that up if the other guy goes for a megaturn and gets 50%+1 of the VP points and then has his deck die e.g. he goes Hermit/Coppersmith/+buy and kills his deck buying 7 colonies or if he goes for a slow slog (e.g. Horse Traders/Silk Road) with a lot of staying power.
2. Now there is something besides Peddler to trash a Kc into. How often will it be the right move to Procession a Kc into a Prince and then play a freebie action every turn?
3. Prince/Sir Martin. So I can play a Knight every turn up until it hits one of yours. New winner for most annoying Black Market draw - when your opponent gets the one Prince-able Knight?
4. A combo which I think may be surprisingly strong fairly often would be Prince/Horse traders or /Storeroom or /Secret chamber. With any limit draw card: Menage, Minion, Watchtower, Jack, and Lib that let's you sift even with no village and get some nice coin for your efforts, as a bonus Ht gives you the +buy to make a big Lib turn make up for the lost province buy. Storeroom is an insane amount of sifting - you get to look through up to 10 cards for the ones needed to kick off your big turn and you can toss dross for cash with a +buy, with any sort of limited draw you can effectively start +3$/+1 buy and likely with nice stacks of cards.



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assemble_me

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #115 on: June 13, 2014, 03:47:48 am »
0

I would really like to know if/when Prince is going to be released in other languages...
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brokoli

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #116 on: June 13, 2014, 04:03:23 am »
0

Wow, this looks awesome.
What I really like is the combo potential, especially to build golden decks or decks that buy province every turn at least.
- Prince of trusty steed could be a fun way to rush on feodums
- Prince of Tfb is sick if you find a way to have a Fortress (or rats) in hand every turn
- Prince of Storeroom in a deck full of tunnels (after copper trashing) is an easy way to reach $8 every turn or even more (and spend the rest of the money on more tunnels).
- Native village golden deck seems to work easily with Prince. Just prince a courtyard and topdeck your province each turn before playing native village. Then you have a folden deck of 8 cards.
- Prince of Saboteur or Outpost (princed with the help of a cost reducer) : these cards hurts in the deck, playing them from the "set aside" make them much better.
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Awaclus

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #117 on: June 13, 2014, 04:07:37 am »
0

Wow, this looks awesome.
What I really like is the combo potential, especially to build golden decks or decks that buy province every turn at least.
- Prince of trusty steed could be a fun way to rush on feodums
- Prince of Tfb is sick if you find a way to have a Fortress (or rats) in hand every turn
- Prince of Storeroom in a deck full of tunnels (after copper trashing) is an easy way to reach $8 every turn or even more (and spend the rest of the money on more tunnels).
- Native village golden deck seems to work easily with Prince. Just prince a courtyard and topdeck your province each turn before playing native village. Then you have a folden deck of 8 cards.
- Prince of Saboteur or Outpost (princed with the help of a cost reducer) : these cards hurts in the deck, playing them from the "set aside" make them much better.
Prince of Outpost isn't very good though.
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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #118 on: June 13, 2014, 04:32:36 am »
0

Hi-Potion: You may discard a card. If you do, you may trash up to 4 Curses.
I don't get it.

I fluffed the reference, which was a bit of a stretch anyway.  Sorry. 

Your regularly scheduled Prince discussion will resume shortly.
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Davio

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #119 on: June 13, 2014, 06:39:24 am »
0

Imaging Princing a Council Room and having "sort of" a Tactician hand every turn!!!

You don't even have to play any more Tacticians to keep it rolling.
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SCSN

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #120 on: June 13, 2014, 07:25:27 am »
0

You can use Prince on a duration card and there are edge-cases where it could be the play. It's not very effective though, you will play the duration card on your next turn and then Prince will lose it forever. But I mean, maybe you really wanted to save that duration card for next turn.

When you say "Prince will lose it forever", do you mean it'll be cleaned up and go back into your discard pile like normal (and thus stop being played by Prince that way), or do you mean it'll end up set aside and out of your deck forever (but still not being played by Prince)? The wording of Prince seems to suggest the latter—it tells you to set aside the Princed card when you discard it from play. So your Princed Caravan gets set aside when discarded from play, but since it wasn't discarded on the same turn you played it, it doesn't get played again and remains in set-aside-land forever.

It goes to the discard. What happens if you prince a Caravan is this:

Turn N: Prince-Caravan, both the Caravan and Prince are set aside.

Turn N+1: The set aside Caravan is played at the beginning of your turn. Because it's a duration, it won't be discarded from play at the end of this turn, hence Prince can't set it aside and by the parenthetical clause on the card will stop playing it, thus "losing it forever".

Turn N+2: You draw a card from the Caravan that's now totally disconnected from Prince, at the end of your turn it goes to the discard as usual.
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Davio

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #121 on: June 13, 2014, 07:41:42 am »
0

So this could be a fun Golden deck:

1. Prince an Envoy so you start every turn with 9 cards
2. KC-Scheme, Vault lets you draw 5 extra cards and you can discard 11 (9 - 3 + 5) cards to get a Colony
3. Put back KC, Scheme and Vault, rinse, repeat
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Awaclus

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #122 on: June 13, 2014, 07:51:24 am »
0

So this could be a fun Golden deck:

1. Prince an Envoy so you start every turn with 9 cards
2. KC-Scheme, Vault lets you draw 5 extra cards and you can discard 11 (9 - 3 + 5) cards to get a Colony
3. Put back KC, Scheme and Vault, rinse, repeat
Or just Prince a Scheme and return the Envoy every turn.
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Davio

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #123 on: June 13, 2014, 08:02:50 am »
0

But if you Prince the Scheme you only get to pick one card to return every time (Envoy), so you're not guaranteed to draw Vault.
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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #124 on: June 13, 2014, 08:08:49 am »
0

But if you Prince the Scheme you only get to pick one card to return every time (Envoy), so you're not guaranteed to draw Vault.
I meant another Scheme. There is no reason to Prince anything other than a Scheme whenever Scheme is on the board.
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