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Author Topic: New Promo at Origins...  (Read 141404 times)

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enfynet

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #300 on: June 21, 2014, 10:08:54 am »
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[...]
That said, Prince of Scheme is awesome when you have nice $5+ cards.
And the percentage of games with good 5-cost cards and no cost reducer is pretty significant. Although, Scheme is only 1 card; Bridge and Highway (and Tournament-Princess) are more likely to show up based on raw numbers.
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liopoil

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #301 on: June 21, 2014, 10:11:38 am »
0

[...]
That said, Prince of Scheme is awesome when you have nice $5+ cards.
And the percentage of games with good 5-cost cards and no cost reducer is pretty significant. Although, Scheme is only 1 card; Bridge and Highway (and Tournament-Princess) are more likely to show up based on raw numbers.
Connecting Prince and Scheme is a lot easier than connecting prince, highway/bridge, and a good 5 cost. Also with scheme you get to choose which card you get the prince effect from each turn, if there are multiple good 5-costs. Prince of schemes is almost a prince of BoM-costing-however-much-you-want
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werothegreat

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #302 on: June 21, 2014, 11:02:47 am »
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Sea Hag is a poor target if the Curses are low, and since you have a Sea Hag, they probably are.

But if *somehow* you manage to get to $8 with ~5 Curses left, playing Sea Hag every turn rather than every shuffle sounds baller.  Probably much easier to rig with Scheme, though.
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Lord Humanton

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #303 on: June 21, 2014, 11:25:33 am »
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Awful: Prince (duh!), Tactician (>$4), duration cards, Island, a knight (unless you got it from the Black Market deck instead of a knights pile), Feast/Deathcart/other self-trashing cards other than Hermit
Bad because really dangerous: Remake, Rats
Pretty bad because dangerous: Bishop & other forced trashing cards
Might be bad due to forced play of actions: Throne Room
Suboptimal: Shanty Town, Menagerie, Treasury(>$4)/Walled Village, Fortress, Watchtower/Library/JoaT (unless there's a discard attack)
Good: everything else -- Monument, Smithy, Militia, Scheme, etc.
Awesome: Prizes
If you draw Prince with only one possible "suboptimal" target, odds are you want to Prince that card. A minor bonus blows up. Prince of Pearl Divers, that's an extra card and action every turn - it's like starting every turn by playing a Lab and a Village (and hey you get to do the Pearl Diver thing). So I mean. Prince of Fortresses? Go for it. Prince of Watchtowers, that's not what you wanted, but drawing an extra card every turn is a lot better than waiting to draw Prince again and see if you are luckier next time. Okay Prince of Jacks is not good except under attacks, but Prince of Menageries, that's pretty sweet. Prince of Treasuries has no issues when it's possible, you don't get to put it on your deck and hey do not wish to either.

For that matter, one-shots are bad since they don't work, but if you draw Prince with Death Cart and no other targets, man, Prince the Death Cart and hope you keep drawing actions to feed it. When it's not worth it, let it go. You only need it for a few turns to make out.

Forced trashing is sometimes bad, but not Bishop, that's a deck, the Prince of Bishops is making you VP every turn.

Prince of Thrones will usually be great, but obv. you might have a deck where it was too scary. It's not a question of if you'll draw that Remake; it's when, and what with. Well, the game could end before you draw it.

The problem with Prince of Ruined Libraries is that your deck probably has more Ruins and so that extra card is not so hot. I might pass there. Prince of Abandoned Mines I would at least consider, how big is my deck anyway, maybe big enough that I should just live with this.

Sea Hag is a poor target if the Curses are low, and since you have a Sea Hag, they probably are.

By suboptimal I meant that when Prince'd you're not getting the full value of the card, so maybe a $4 card is acting like a $3. (Reaction/Bane cards would be in this category too.) What you said indicates to me that if your Prince is matched up with a $3 card, it's likely you'd want to Prince it immediately than wait around for a $4 card. That makes complete sense to me. Even if it were guaranteed you'd match up your Prince with a better card next time, that's N hands until your Prince comes around again, so that's N hands you won't get be getting the benefit. Normal opportunity costs in Dominion are not this high! (Normally you pass on an opportunity 1 time while it cycles, not N.)

All the rest makes sense also, except that I need to test Bishop OTB to convince myself of that. From when you and I tried out the forced trashing at the start of every turn, I know that this aspect can be a blessing and a curse (but always fun). There is the victory token aspect, but my worry is being forced into a situation where I'm gaining VP every turn trashing small treasures, while my opponent is buying Colonies. Maybe the thing that saves me from this is that by the time I have a Prince, I should also have a large enough deck... Anyway, I've arranged to start trying it out OTB with somebody today, and I'm looking forward to that!







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Asper

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #304 on: June 21, 2014, 12:19:16 pm »
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Awful: Prince (duh!), Tactician (>$4), duration cards, Island, a knight (unless you got it from the Black Market deck instead of a knights pile), Feast/Deathcart/other self-trashing cards other than Hermit

Took me some time to realize why it was so bad with durations - you don't discard them the turn they are played, and because of that, don't set them aside that turn, which is why they will not be played again. Ah, those wacky durations...
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popsofctown

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #305 on: June 21, 2014, 01:10:04 pm »
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Awful: Prince (duh!), Tactician (>$4), duration cards, Island, a knight (unless you got it from the Black Market deck instead of a knights pile), Feast/Deathcart/other self-trashing cards other than Hermit

Took me some time to realize why it was so bad with durations - you don't discard them the turn they are played, and because of that, don't set them aside that turn, which is why they will not be played again. Ah, those wacky durations...
They wouldn't be that great even if they worked properly, though, since their basic effect is generally "half" as good as a normal card.  Prince of Wishing Wells is better than Prince of Caravans, etc.
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Lord Humanton

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #306 on: June 21, 2014, 01:29:07 pm »
+6

That's good to hear. People here have a lot of questions about where, if anywhere, Dominion Online is going, if you guys are still making any effort improving the product (which shouldn't be too hard—commenting out some random code will likely be an improvement), whether the stability issues will be addressed on a fundamental enough level, whether the messy hell that constitutes your codebase is going to be redesigned from scratch, etc.

It would be great if you could shed some light on any of this. Many of us—me included—have grown pretty cynical about the Dominion Online implementation, which often is more fun to bash than it is to use, but I'd be the first to applaud any genuine effort to patch up the sinking ship and take it to the nearest island for a rigorous overhaul.

+1 addressing on a fundamental enough level, redesigning, rigorous overhaul

The amusing thing about the bashing has been that Dominion Online's backend code is actually pretty well-written; rather, it's that 95% of this code (in fact, the entire core platform layer and db) has nothing at all to do with Dominion. And to understand that, you'd have to understand that Goko wasn't founded to be a game developer or even a game publisher...

I'll respond more next week, including answering about Making Fun's plans, but we need to clear through Rio Grande first.
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Witherweaver

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #307 on: June 21, 2014, 02:03:06 pm »
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What happens if you play Prince of Outposts on your Outpost turn?

Wasn't it decided that the second outpost would not stay out, since you can determine it doesn't have an effect?  I guess it would be discarded, set aside with Prince, then played again on your next turn, and then fail to be set aside on that turn.
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KingZog3

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #308 on: June 21, 2014, 02:05:23 pm »
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Wait, so what happens if the duration doesn't discard? Is it just left in limbo? Prince doesn't keep playing it, but it's not discarded. Would it just play one more time, then discard as normal leaving the Prince out?
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werothegreat

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #309 on: June 21, 2014, 02:05:54 pm »
+3

And to understand that, you'd have to understand that Goko wasn't founded to be a game developer or even a game publisher...

I'll respond more next week, including answering about Making Fun's plans, but we need to clear through Rio Grande first.

So, what, it was a Ponzi Scheme?

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Witherweaver

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #310 on: June 21, 2014, 02:13:36 pm »
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Wait, so what happens if the duration doesn't discard? Is it just left in limbo? Prince doesn't keep playing it, but it's not discarded. Would it just play one more time, then discard as normal leaving the Prince out?

Yes, it's not set aside, so it plays like normal.  Prince is set aside and just chills.
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Davio

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #311 on: June 21, 2014, 02:23:37 pm »
+1

I think Goko's has decent networking code at its core and I actually think the Dominion implementation isn't that terrible. There, I said it.

Bashing Goko is fun, but the game is at least decently playable. That's not to say it doesn't have issues, but they are mainly change requests instead of bug fixes.

Maybe I've grown accustomed to lesser standards, but Goko just doesn't bug me as much as it did. Of course, Dominion Salvager has something to do with that as well.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2014, 02:25:26 pm by Davio »
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Witherweaver

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #312 on: June 21, 2014, 02:40:57 pm »
+1

I think Goko's has decent networking code at its core and I actually think the Dominion implementation isn't that terrible. There, I said it.

Bashing Goko is fun, but the game is at least decently playable. That's not to say it doesn't have issues, but they are mainly change requests instead of bug fixes.

Maybe I've grown accustomed to lesser standards, but Goko just doesn't bug me as much as it did. Of course, Dominion Salvager has something to do with that as well.

I still have very bad lag, consistently.
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Voltaire

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #313 on: June 21, 2014, 04:31:46 pm »
+5

I think Goko's has decent networking code at its core and I actually think the Dominion implementation isn't that terrible. There, I said it.

Bashing Goko is fun, but the game is at least decently playable. That's not to say it doesn't have issues, but they are mainly change requests instead of bug fixes.

Maybe I've grown accustomed to lesser standards, but Goko just doesn't bug me as much as it did. Of course, Dominion Salvager has something to do with that as well.

Goko is playable because of Salvager.
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werothegreat

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #314 on: June 21, 2014, 05:43:58 pm »
+2

I think Goko's has decent networking code at its core and I actually think the Dominion implementation isn't that terrible. There, I said it.

Bashing Goko is fun, but the game is at least decently playable. That's not to say it doesn't have issues, but they are mainly change requests instead of bug fixes.

Maybe I've grown accustomed to lesser standards, but Goko just doesn't bug me as much as it did. Of course, Dominion Salvager has something to do with that as well.

Goko is playable because of Salvager.

I disagree.  When actually playing a game, I'm perfectly fine with Goko's implementation, and prefer over what isotropic was.  My problems with Goko (and I guess now Making Fun) is things like room sizes, loading times, lags, structure of Adventures, etc.

Also, I don't think I'll ever stop calling it Goko.  Just something about the name that "Making Fun" really just doesn't have.
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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #315 on: June 21, 2014, 05:52:11 pm »
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iso had a blacklist, so i've heard, and goko doesn't. end of story for me.

liopoil

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #316 on: June 21, 2014, 05:54:15 pm »
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iso had a blacklist, so i've heard, and goko doesn't. end of story for me.
salvager sort of does.
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Witherweaver

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #317 on: June 21, 2014, 05:58:05 pm »
+3

I think Goko's has decent networking code at its core and I actually think the Dominion implementation isn't that terrible. There, I said it.

Bashing Goko is fun, but the game is at least decently playable. That's not to say it doesn't have issues, but they are mainly change requests instead of bug fixes.

Maybe I've grown accustomed to lesser standards, but Goko just doesn't bug me as much as it did. Of course, Dominion Salvager has something to do with that as well.

Goko is playable because of Salvager.

I disagree.  When actually playing a game, I'm perfectly fine with Goko's implementation, and prefer over what isotropic was.  My problems with Goko (and I guess now Making Fun) is things like room sizes, loading times, lags, structure of Adventures, etc.

Also, I don't think I'll ever stop calling it Goko.  Just something about the name that "Making Fun" really just doesn't have.

Would you like some making fun BERSERKER
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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #318 on: June 21, 2014, 05:59:05 pm »
+1

Also, I don't think I'll ever stop calling it Goko.  Just something about the name that "Making Fun" really just doesn't have.

Actually, we all have been calling it Making Fun since before they took over, because we were making fun of Goko.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #319 on: June 21, 2014, 11:53:55 pm »
+3

I think Goko's has decent networking code at its core and I actually think the Dominion implementation isn't that terrible. There, I said it.

Bashing Goko is fun, but the game is at least decently playable. That's not to say it doesn't have issues, but they are mainly change requests instead of bug fixes.

Maybe I've grown accustomed to lesser standards, but Goko just doesn't bug me as much as it did. Of course, Dominion Salvager has something to do with that as well.

If it weren't for Salvager, Dominion Online would be utter crap and half of us would have probably stopped being on these boards by now.
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eHalcyon

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #320 on: June 22, 2014, 03:20:31 am »
+5

I think Goko's has decent networking code at its core and I actually think the Dominion implementation isn't that terrible. There, I said it.

Bashing Goko is fun, but the game is at least decently playable. That's not to say it doesn't have issues, but they are mainly change requests instead of bug fixes.

Maybe I've grown accustomed to lesser standards, but Goko just doesn't bug me as much as it did. Of course, Dominion Salvager has something to do with that as well.

If it weren't for Salvager, Dominion Online would be utter crap and half of us would have probably stopped being on these boards by now.

Why would people suddenly stop playing Mafia just because Dominion Online was unsalvaged?
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Polk5440

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #321 on: June 22, 2014, 07:51:20 am »
0

And to understand that, you'd have to understand that Goko wasn't founded to be a game developer or even a game publisher...

I'll respond more next week, including answering about Making Fun's plans, but we need to clear through Rio Grande first.

So, what, it was a Ponzi Scheme?

An HTML5 game "platform" if I remember correctly.

Lord Humanton, glad to hear there is still work being done.
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dondon151

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #322 on: June 22, 2014, 08:42:29 pm »
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Prince of HT is pretty awful unless you have something to combo it with consistently.
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Davio

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #323 on: June 23, 2014, 01:46:12 am »
0

Finally, Prince of Pirate Ships!

Although, not very realistic.
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loppo

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Re: New Promo at Origins...
« Reply #324 on: June 23, 2014, 03:14:56 am »
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Finally, Prince of Pirate Ships!

Although, not very realistic.

Hmm, coming home from the Austrian Nationals, where there was a game with pirate ship, i think Prince of pirate ship is vialble in 3-player and a real beast in 4-player games.
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