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[jamespotter]

Here's an idea I've been toying with:

Necromancer
Action [$2]
Trash 3 cards from your hand. Gain up to 3 cards, each costing no more than $6 from the Trash pile into your hand.

I know the name is overused, but I think it fits really well here. My worry is that the card will be too similar to Chapel most of the time, but I think the mandatory trash of three cards provides some more interesting late game decisions. Thoughts?

[LastFootnote]

Hmm, it has "gain from the trash", but without "way to get good stuff into the trash". Other players may trash good stuff with this, but they'll probably gain it right back. So I don't think it'll work very well. Trashing an Estate and gaining a Copper to reach a certain Coin threshold might be occasionally useful, but not terribly exciting. Sorry I don't like it more! 

[soulnet]

The fact that you can regain cards (unless you have lots of really expensive cards in hand AND still want to use it, which is uncommon enough for it not to matter) makes the "exactly" being really similar to "up to". I think this is strong, but is probably not a lot stronger than just "Trash 3 cards from hand.". I mean, I think the gaining from trash has close to neglible effect in 99% of the games, and trashing 3 cards from hand is good. However, with Chapel there, it seems a bit redundant.

[Marcory]

It's pretty awesome as a counter to Rebuild, but otherwise, it's a not-so-great Chapel early on and a not-so-great Graverobber/Rogue later on.

[popsofctown]

Guys, I know you might not be aware of this, but Chapel is a really good card.  Like a really really good card.  Like, being weaker than Chapel might not be a death knell.  It's crazy and stuff.

[soulnet]

Guys, I know you might not be aware of this, but Chapel is a really good card.  Like a really really good card.  Like, being weaker than Chapel might not be a death knell.  It's crazy and stuff.

. A card that just says "Trash exactly 3 cards from your hand." Is also not a bad card. There is little point on making it, though, because there already exists Chapel, it is not new. This card is pretty close to "Trash up to 3 cards from your hand." which is even close to Chapel, but still, not new enough.

[jamespotter]

. A card that just says "Trash exactly 3 cards from your hand." Is also not a bad card. There is little point on making it, though, because there already exists Chapel, it is not new. This card is pretty close to "Trash up to 3 cards from your hand." which is even close to Chapel, but still, not new enough.

This was exactly my worry. Since this opinion has been validated by several, I think it's best to just scrap this card entirely. I agree that strategic variation is minimal, as it won't interact differently than Chapel with enough kingdoms to be interesting.

[SirPeebles]

Gaining Copper (into your hand) or Estates out of the trash can be pretty nice late game.

[Witherweaver]

If you added a Mechanic where you couldn't gain the cards you just trashed (change the order or set them aside), then it could be more interesting.  You have to make more choices about what and when to trash.

[SirPeebles]

If you added a Mechanic where you couldn't gain the cards you just trashed (change the order or set them aside), then it could be more interesting.  You have to make more choices about what and when to trash.

I think the easiest fix is to make the player choose between trashing and gaining.

[popsofctown]

Guys, I know you might not be aware of this, but Chapel is a really good card.  Like a really really good card.  Like, being weaker than Chapel might not be a death knell.  It's crazy and stuff.

. A card that just says "Trash exactly 3 cards from your hand." Is also not a bad card. There is little point on making it, though, because there already exists Chapel, it is not new. This card is pretty close to "Trash up to 3 cards from your hand." which is even close to Chapel, but still, not new enough.

Donald said he already hit all the good open design space.  Do you visit Variant and Fan Cards forum because he's wrong?  I don't get it.  What's left at this point is mostly ideas that don't work and ideas that are pretty similar to an existing card (and ideas that add tons of complexity).

I just don't really get the criticism for card ideas like this in this context.  It's like your math teacher asks you to discover some Pythagorean triples with a hypotenuse less than 15, and she gives you 3-4-5 and 5-12-13, and you answer 6-8-10 and get a D for unoriginality.  Well no Rats it's going to be unoriginal, the only remaining choice is a derivative of the existing ones.  There's only so much space.

[soulnet]

Donald said he already hit all the good open design space.  Do you visit Variant and Fan Cards forum because he's wrong?  I don't get it.  What's left at this point is mostly ideas that don't work and ideas that are pretty similar to an existing card (and ideas that add tons of complexity).
 
I just don't really get tthe criticism for card ideas like this in this context.  It's like your math teacher asks you to discover some Pythagorean triples with a hypotenuse less than 15, and she gives you 3-4-5 and 5-12-13, and you answer 6-8-10 and get a D for unoriginality.  Well no Rats it's going to be unoriginal, the only remaining choice is a derivative of the existing ones.  There's only so much space.

I distrust the bold statements (pun intended). And, the definition of what's "good" is pretty subjective, so I may be fine with some ideas Donald considered and rejected.

[gambit05]

Donald said he already hit all the good open design space.  Do you visit Variant and Fan Cards forum because he's wrong?  I don't get it.  What's left at this point is mostly ideas that don't work and ideas that are pretty similar to an existing card (and ideas that add tons of complexity).

I just don't really get the criticism for card ideas like this in this context.  It's like your math teacher asks you to discover some Pythagorean triples with a hypotenuse less than 15, and she gives you 3-4-5 and 5-12-13, and you answer 6-8-10 and get a D for unoriginality.  Well no Rats it's going to be unoriginal, the only remaining choice is a derivative of the existing ones.  There's only so much space.

You forgot a few important aspects. Fan Cards do not have to make profit, they are not restricted to limited pages of rule explanations, and you can do crossovers between different existing (and if you are innovative new) concepts. So, Fan cards can easily be Duration cards with an overpay function, or Looters with a Potion cost. Official cards can barely have that.

[jamespotter]

All right, I like the suggestion of making it trash or gain. So here's my new proposed card:

Necromancer
Action [$2]
Choose one: Trash 3 cards from your hand or gain up to 3 cards, each costing no more than $6 from the Trash pile into your hand.

[soulnet]

All right, I like the suggestion of making it trash or gain. So here's my new proposed card:

Necromancer
Action [$2]
Choose one: Trash 3 cards from your hand or gain up to 3 cards, each costing no more than $6 from the Trash pile into your hand.

I think this reads better:

Necromancer
Action [$2]
Choose one: Trash 3 cards from your hand; or gain up to 3 cards from the Trash pile into your hand, each costing no more than $6.

Also, maybe making it gain exactly 3 would be better, only slightly weaker, but more tactical and make the whole card more orthogonal, which in turn reduces interpretation mistakes. I like it now, it was a good fix. It remains to be seen whether $2 is a reasonable cost for it.