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[Witherweaver]

Okay crazy PPS theory:

So Swindler trashes the top card of your opponent's deck and makes them gain a card.. so gets rid of something and gives back something.  PPS gives out some number of d8's.  That's not quite Swindling... back when it seemed like he was changing d12's to d8's in some way it made more sense.  But now his role is simply to give out d8's that weren't there before.  That's not really a swindle. 

What if the Swindler targets a player and destroys 1d6 number of dice.  Then he gives a (possibly different) player 1d12 number of d8s.  That's more in line with trashing and gaining.  And gaining more of a lower die sort of does the wash thing (Swindler trashes and gains the same cost). 

I had a problem earlier, because if he has to do both parts of this ability, then we should have seen d8's given before.  But he could have just given them to his partner the entire time.. no real downside to doing this.. more dice for the NPC's, and you can simply just roll the extra ones.. there's no real harm between rolling 3d12 and 3d12+3d8.. the second is actually better because you have a greater chance for the numbers you want. 

Anyway, this was the result of me trying to think of a way for dice destroying to not be a factional ability.  Does not fit with Archetype's Tactician (would be a weird thing to tack on there), or Liopoil's Ambassador (which makes sense.. he loses a die (returns to supply) and someone else gains them).  Doesn't fit Hydrad's tinkerer (also makes sense, changes the die permanently), and anyway he's an IC now.  I know BA is telling the truth (his makes sense, too, Arms Inspector is exactly what he does), and I am as well (and it makes some sense; Saboteur turns a card into one costing three less, I render a player unable to roll any of the three highest scoring values, effectively turning all dX dice into d(X-3) that day). 

Well, like I said, crazy theory, but a bit bolstered by PPS claimed roll not doing any actual Swindling once he figured out what it is.  And just having factional dice destroying doesn't quite sit well with me.. I guess it's possible, but I don't know why it would.  It seems much more like it should be someone's role.

[Witherweaver]

If that theory were true, I'm not sure what it would say about partners.  Would slightly implicate someone that has played 8's and lowers, I guess.

[Witherweaver]

Interestingly enough, my roll says my target is unable to roll any of the three highest-scoring values.  I wonder if that's different than the three highest dice rolls.  I assumed it meant dX -> d(X-3), but the highest die roll might not correspond to the highest "score".  For this guy, the highest scoring values would be 7,9,11 on a d12. 

I guess I can ask in my QT.

[Witherweaver]

If it's the later it's kind of 100% negative utility, unless I want to frame someone.

[Witherweaver]

So he confirmed it's the latter.. whichever rolls, when played that day, would give the three highest scores.  So today 7, 9, 11.

Then this seems entirely negative utility. 

[liopoil]

And just having factional dice destroying doesn't quite sit well with me.. I guess it's possible, but I don't know why it would.  It seems much more like it should be someone's role.

I'm not sure why it doesn't sit well with you... sure your theory is possible, and if that's what it takes to convince you that pps is scum, so be it. But I think more likely it is a factional power and pps is just scum.

[Beyond Awesome]

I rolled. Just waiting on my result.

[liopoil]

I rolled. Just waiting on my result.

Still don't have it? Here, assuming you roll d12s:

Rolled 1d12 : 9, total 9

[liopoil]

Very nice. Now let's see if Jimmmmm replicates such a result.

I feel like we should be able to get a lot of information from rereading D4... it was so huge.

[pingpongsam]

Vote: liopoil

[Hydrad]

Just saying I'm still new so maybe it's fine. But I'm really scared of just voting people like this incase scum quick hammers

[Witherweaver]

He's at L-2, and if he's Town then PPS and Arch are scum.  So as long as no one else votes it's okay.

I agree we should take our time, though.  I still have more to reread.  plus we need to kill the monster.

[Hydrad]

Also just letting everyone know in a couple hours I'll be going camping and not 100% sure if I have Internet access or not. I will be back on Sunday though. Sorry for the inconvinence

[Witherweaver]

Okay.. I'll tell you where I am.  I have a really hard time reading Mail-mi/Arch as scum from the earlier days and a really easy time seeing Lio/PPS.  Rereading Day 4 (intimidating) could change this.

What is your outlook?

[Hydrad]

I think it's either a pps/x team or ww/BA team. I can't see a lio/arch team going in. So right now if I trusted just me I would go pps but I want to reread d4 especially as both Asher and Faust were so sure it was a ww/BA team that I have to look into it. I really don't want to get fooled here

[Beyond Awesome]

I rolled. Just waiting on my result.

Still don't have it? Here, assuming you roll d12s:

This dice roll may have been tampered with!
Rolled 1d12 : 9, total 9

I'm still waiting on the results.

[liopoil]

Just saying I'm still new so maybe it's fine. But I'm really scared of just voting people like this incase scum quick hammers

Yep. The other player voting for me is BA, right? If so, I think I'm okay... but guys, please be careful. It's just better if we talk for a while then vote for who we decided on.

I have a really hard time reading Mail-mi/Arch as scum from the earlier days and a really easy time seeing Lio/PPS.

Is this about mail-mi's D1 vote on voltaire? That was classic scum bussing. Putting a vote on a partner when it doesn't look like they are in too much danger of being lynched, and then once the wagon got going he couldn't safely move his vote. Plus his vote wasn't for the reasons that other people had, he never even commented on those. Speaking of D1 though, BA's position on the volt wagon is townie...

[liopoil]

pingpongsam, what do you think of archetype?

[Witherweaver]

Hm,  I'm not sure.  Maybe because that's not the way I usually bus. But he was arguing to take heat off of town! Ichi and onto his partner? On something that really could take off?  Doesn't seem so safe since Volt was the lowest roller. You could be right, but it's not so clear to me.

But not just that.. just his general approach here, and how Archetype was when he came in.. my gut read was town the whole time. 

[Jimmmmm]

Vote Count 5.1

liopoil (2): Witherweaver, pingpongsam

not voting (4): Archetype, liopoil, Hydrad, Beyond Awesome

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Evening begins on August 7 at 2pm forum time.
Day 5 ends on August 9 at 2pm forum time.

Target: 25
Score: 24

[Beyond Awesome]

I rolled. Just waiting on my result.

Still don't have it? Here, assuming you roll d12s:

This dice roll may have been tampered with!
Rolled 1d12 : 9, total 9

I'm still waiting on the results.

I rolled 1 die and got a 10. I am choosing not to play it. Lio, you need to roll.

[Witherweaver]

Lame.  You can store it though, right?

[Beyond Awesome]

Lame.  You can store it though, right?

No. I don't think so. It says I can play it or discard it. I don't think you can store if you just roll 1.

[Witherweaver]

That's probably true.

[liopoil]

I rolled. Just waiting on my result.

Still don't have it? Here, assuming you roll d12s:

This dice roll may have been tampered with!
Rolled 1d12 : 9, total 9

I'm still waiting on the results.

I rolled 1 die and got a 10. I am choosing not to play it. Lio, you need to roll.

Boooo. Well, okay, I'm rolling 2 dice now.