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[Hydrad]

In fact, if I am somehow wrong, I can vow never to play another game of mafia again.  That's how strongly I feel about this.

I really hate statements like this. Your either using a scum tactic to try and switch what I'm thinking about you or your town making a really strong statement. The problem is the if you were scum saying that it seems kinda underhanded. I understand scum is supposed to lie but still.

At this point if I trust myself its still ash/pps I want to lynch. But since this is my first game and faust and asher both are basically 100% sure the scum team is WW/BA I'm almost willing to swap my vote since I feel like they know what they are doing. Faust I trust as town and I can see one town person being that far  off but still super certain. But asher is feeling towny except for the VT claim which he can't really help if he got rolled it. Honestly I can't really find a good team out of ash/pps/arch and I think lio is town too. I can see one of them easily being scum but I can't really find a way that both are scum in their. This also makes me feel like the only team that I can come up with is WW/BA.

The problem is BA seems towny to me. With his rolls and interactions. I realize hes a newer player with a bit more experience so hes making some mistakes like not knowing what a mason is. But I also realize if I was in that situation I would definitaly abuse the fact that people think I don't know the game and would make small mistakes like that to make myself seem more towny. So if BA is aware of that fact and purposely making those mistakes to give himself a towny vibe then it completely makes sense on how I am being fooled.

I guess it comes down to do I trust the vets in this game or do I play it my way. I realize that my decision could either win or lose the game and I'm super torn on what to do. There isn't really a reason I made this post and overall it was probably a mistake because now scum knows what I'm thinking. But still I just have no idea what to do here and felt like posting this.

[ashersky]

On D3, you said that Faust was definite scum, but yet now on D4, you have scum as the player you want lynched least.

Correct.

[Beyond Awesome]

Another thing I am noticing on my reread (still on D3), is that Ash keeps saying he will claim, Faust pushes him to claim, he keeps saying he will and then Ash makes it so everyone else claims. At the end, of D3, Ash does not claim. D4, he states this was so scum would be afraid of him. But, if Ash were scum, wouldn't he also want to know all other roles and also not draw attention to what role he has? I know it has been discussed already. Just something I am noticing again.

[ashersky]

Hydrad, follow your heart/gut/mind, etc.  I want you to trust me, but not just because I've played so many games.

You think you had no reason to write your last post, but trust me, it was worth writing out.

[ashersky]

Another thing I am noticing on my reread (still on D3), is that Ash keeps saying he will claim, Faust pushes him to claim, he keeps saying he will and then Ash makes it so everyone else claims. At the end, of D3, Ash does not claim. D4, he states this was so scum would be afraid of him. But, if Ash were scum, wouldn't he also want to know all other roles and also not draw attention to what role he has? I know it has been discussed already. Just something I am noticing again.

This is true.  I knew it would make me seem super scummy.  Turns out claims weren't done anyway.

You can seek historical example of me (and other vets) stating often the best night outcome for a VT is NK because you basically saved all the PRs.  It's the mafia version of that paladin secret Noble Defender in Hearthstone.  Kinda crappy, but awesome if saving important minions.

[Beyond Awesome]

Another thing I am noticing on my reread (still on D3), is that Ash keeps saying he will claim, Faust pushes him to claim, he keeps saying he will and then Ash makes it so everyone else claims. At the end, of D3, Ash does not claim. D4, he states this was so scum would be afraid of him. But, if Ash were scum, wouldn't he also want to know all other roles and also not draw attention to what role he has? I know it has been discussed already. Just something I am noticing again.

This is true.  I knew it would make me seem super scummy.  Turns out claims weren't done anyway.

You can seek historical example of me (and other vets) stating often the best night outcome for a VT is NK because you basically saved all the PRs.  It's the mafia version of that paladin secret Noble Defender in Hearthstone.  Kinda crappy, but awesome if saving important minions.

I can see your point, but going into D4, assuming you are town, you kind of seemed like the easy mislynch. The entire council agreed that you seemed the scummiest of all players and not just for holding off for claiming. I don't buy the NK argument.

[ashersky]

Another thing I am noticing on my reread (still on D3), is that Ash keeps saying he will claim, Faust pushes him to claim, he keeps saying he will and then Ash makes it so everyone else claims. At the end, of D3, Ash does not claim. D4, he states this was so scum would be afraid of him. But, if Ash were scum, wouldn't he also want to know all other roles and also not draw attention to what role he has? I know it has been discussed already. Just something I am noticing again.

This is true.  I knew it would make me seem super scummy.  Turns out claims weren't done anyway.

You can seek historical example of me (and other vets) stating often the best night outcome for a VT is NK because you basically saved all the PRs.  It's the mafia version of that paladin secret Noble Defender in Hearthstone.  Kinda crappy, but awesome if saving important minions.

I can see your point, but going into D4, assuming you are town, you kind of seemed like the easy mislynch. The entire council agreed that you seemed the scummiest of all players and not just for holding off for claiming. I don't buy the NK argument.

Given you are scum, I don't care.

Put yourself in VT!me shoes.  You know you are one of the few non-useful roles in the game, you know there are lots of other things going on.  You also know that a VT claim will be scummy NK matter when you make it.  Holding off and drawing an NK was my best hope.

[Beyond Awesome]

Another thing I am noticing on my reread (still on D3), is that Ash keeps saying he will claim, Faust pushes him to claim, he keeps saying he will and then Ash makes it so everyone else claims. At the end, of D3, Ash does not claim. D4, he states this was so scum would be afraid of him. But, if Ash were scum, wouldn't he also want to know all other roles and also not draw attention to what role he has? I know it has been discussed already. Just something I am noticing again.

This is true.  I knew it would make me seem super scummy.  Turns out claims weren't done anyway.

You can seek historical example of me (and other vets) stating often the best night outcome for a VT is NK because you basically saved all the PRs.  It's the mafia version of that paladin secret Noble Defender in Hearthstone.  Kinda crappy, but awesome if saving important minions.

I can see your point, but going into D4, assuming you are town, you kind of seemed like the easy mislynch. The entire council agreed that you seemed the scummiest of all players and not just for holding off for claiming. I don't buy the NK argument.

Given you are scum, I don't care.

Put yourself in VT!me shoes.  You know you are one of the few non-useful roles in the game, you know there are lots of other things going on.  You also know that a VT claim will be scummy NK matter when you make it.  Holding off and drawing an NK was my best hope.

The fact that you are screaming and calling me scum makes me think that you are desperate scum Ash at this point. I am not 100% certain that you are scum. But, I am really starting to think you are. If you were town, I think you would do more to help this game right now. You even said earlier you had a town read on me D4 after that long argument about the whole LD. And, suddenly with Faust tunneling WW and I so hard, you change your mind. How convenient. You are siding with the same player you had a super scum reading D3.

[Witherweaver]

I cannot believe that town!Ash does not know I'm town here.  This would be horribly inconsistent with everything I know so far.

[ashersky]

I cannot believe that town!Ash does not know I'm town here.  This would be horribly inconsistent with everything I know so far.

Does anyone know town!ww?  Seriously.

[ashersky]

I didn't play HoC and that's your only town game ever.

[Hydrad]

So now does that mean the chance of being town again is finally here? or is he just cursed to a 90% scum game rate

[Hydrad]

Also I'm considering a WW/BA lynch just because we arn't 100% sure if scum is loved or not. if thats the case lynching WW/BA removes all doubt of what the teams are. But lets say we lynch asher and hes town but PPS/arch is scum then we are still in the same situation as before.

[Beyond Awesome]

Dunno.

Taken, destroyed, who knows?  We don't know if they were stolen or destroyed, right?

I mean, if you get half+1 to believe you, you're all set anyway.  Just stating my opinion.

Lynching me is a possibility.  You'll lose the Mentalist, though.

I'm out for the night, back on tomorrow.

Someone brought up a point about whether or not Ash could control the Mentalist after XP died. Ash says he is not the Advisor but controls who to send the Mentalist to since XP died. Here Ash is saying we will lose the Mentalist if he is lynched. However, earlier Ash mentions that he can choose to send the Mentalist anywhere he wants during the day through his QT. The way he made it sound, he does this before turning night, so I would think Ash could send the Mentalist out to someone before he is lynched.

Just another observation I made. Not sure what to make of it though. Is Ash lying there, misrepresenting info, making stuff up, or actually telling the truth. What about the earlier comment of being able to send the Mentalist to someone of his choosing during the day?

[Beyond Awesome]

So now does that mean the chance of being town again is finally here? or is he just cursed to a 90% scum game rate

Generally, he is cursed. But, I can assure you with 100% certainty that WW is town this game. Whether you choose to believe me or not is up to you.

[ashersky]

Dunno.

Taken, destroyed, who knows?  We don't know if they were stolen or destroyed, right?

I mean, if you get half+1 to believe you, you're all set anyway.  Just stating my opinion.

Lynching me is a possibility.  You'll lose the Mentalist, though.

I'm out for the night, back on tomorrow.

Someone brought up a point about whether or not Ash could control the Mentalist after XP died. Ash says he is not the Advisor but controls who to send the Mentalist to since XP died. Here Ash is saying we will lose the Mentalist if he is lynched. However, earlier Ash mentions that he can choose to send the Mentalist anywhere he wants during the day through his QT. The way he made it sound, he does this before turning night, so I would think Ash could send the Mentalist out to someone before he is lynched.

Just another observation I made. Not sure what to make of it though. Is Ash lying there, misrepresenting info, making stuff up, or actually telling the truth. What about the earlier comment of being able to send the Mentalist to someone of his choosing during the day?

I was threatening town with not sending the Mentalist anywhere and just taking him to the grave with me.

I had to send him during the day.  I did so, as arch has confirmed.

[Beyond Awesome]

Also I'm considering a WW/BA lynch just because we arn't 100% sure if scum is loved or not. if thats the case lynching WW/BA removes all doubt of what the teams are. But lets say we lynch asher and hes town but PPS/arch is scum then we are still in the same situation as before.

And, if Ash is loved, it's game over. Honestly, if there were a way for one of us to get killed right now before night takes place, I would be all for it. WW talked about being mod killed, but apparently that can't happen. If there was a day vig, I seriously would not mind someone killing me right now to prove WW is town.

[Beyond Awesome]

Dunno.

Taken, destroyed, who knows?  We don't know if they were stolen or destroyed, right?

I mean, if you get half+1 to believe you, you're all set anyway.  Just stating my opinion.

Lynching me is a possibility.  You'll lose the Mentalist, though.

I'm out for the night, back on tomorrow.

Someone brought up a point about whether or not Ash could control the Mentalist after XP died. Ash says he is not the Advisor but controls who to send the Mentalist to since XP died. Here Ash is saying we will lose the Mentalist if he is lynched. However, earlier Ash mentions that he can choose to send the Mentalist anywhere he wants during the day through his QT. The way he made it sound, he does this before turning night, so I would think Ash could send the Mentalist out to someone before he is lynched.

Just another observation I made. Not sure what to make of it though. Is Ash lying there, misrepresenting info, making stuff up, or actually telling the truth. What about the earlier comment of being able to send the Mentalist to someone of his choosing during the day?

I was threatening town with not sending the Mentalist anywhere and just taking him to the grave with me.

I had to send him during the day.  I did so, as arch has confirmed.

If you are town though why send the Mentalist to the grave with you. That sounds like a shallow thing to do, especially for someone who claims they don't mind getting lynched and want to win no matter what. Arch could be your partner for all I know.

[ashersky]

dayvig: BA

[Beyond Awesome]

dayvig: BA

If this is for real, I am all for that.

[ashersky]

Dunno.

Taken, destroyed, who knows?  We don't know if they were stolen or destroyed, right?

I mean, if you get half+1 to believe you, you're all set anyway.  Just stating my opinion.

Lynching me is a possibility.  You'll lose the Mentalist, though.

I'm out for the night, back on tomorrow.

Someone brought up a point about whether or not Ash could control the Mentalist after XP died. Ash says he is not the Advisor but controls who to send the Mentalist to since XP died. Here Ash is saying we will lose the Mentalist if he is lynched. However, earlier Ash mentions that he can choose to send the Mentalist anywhere he wants during the day through his QT. The way he made it sound, he does this before turning night, so I would think Ash could send the Mentalist out to someone before he is lynched.

Just another observation I made. Not sure what to make of it though. Is Ash lying there, misrepresenting info, making stuff up, or actually telling the truth. What about the earlier comment of being able to send the Mentalist to someone of his choosing during the day?

I was threatening town with not sending the Mentalist anywhere and just taking him to the grave with me.

I had to send him during the day.  I did so, as arch has confirmed.

If you are town though why send the Mentalist to the grave with you. That sounds like a shallow thing to do, especially for someone who claims they don't mind getting lynched and want to win no matter what. Arch could be your partner for all I know.

Threatening to do something and actually doing something are two different things.  I have an unfortunate history of being mislynched in my sleep due to time zones and Yuma being mean.

[ashersky]

dayvig: BA

If this is for real, I am all for that.

If that was for, I would have done it already.

[Beyond Awesome]

dayvig: BA

If this is for real, I am all for that.

If that was for, I would have done it already.

That sucks. I really do wish someone could just day kill me right now so that there would be no doubt that WW is town.

[Beyond Awesome]

Something happened to me N1 for which non of the existing claimed roles offer an explanation. For that reason, I am rather sure that ashersky, as the only unclaimed role, is town.

Ash says this wasn't him. Was this the LD or Grim Reaper that visited you N1 Faust? Sorry, if I missed where you state what it is.

[Beyond Awesome]

dayvig: BA

If this is for real, I am all for that.

If that was for, I would have done it already.

That sucks. I really do wish someone could just day kill me right now so that there would be no doubt that WW is town.

Never mind, I see where you state it was the Grim Reaper. My bad, I am still in the process of my reread.