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[Witherweaver]

Actually maybe scum trying to lynch us isn't the bad strategy that I'm making it out to be in my head.  It's only bad if they look scummy in the fallout.. as long as they can reasonably justify suspecting us, it's not that incriminating.. and with three people that argued for our lynch, at least one must be town, so there's a bit of a safety annex there.

And yeah it creates an IC, but then they just shoot him tonight.

I think the big problem we are worried about is that we don't know if this is mylo or not. If scum is loved we have to hit him or else unless we get a vig from GR or something we just lose.

No, only if both scum are Loved.  If we mislynch today, then night kill tonight, we're down to 4 Town 2 Scum.. 6 players, 4 to lynch.  Loved!Scum can't be lynched, but unloved one can with 4 votes.

Right?

[Hydrad]

Actually maybe scum trying to lynch us isn't the bad strategy that I'm making it out to be in my head.  It's only bad if they look scummy in the fallout.. as long as they can reasonably justify suspecting us, it's not that incriminating.. and with three people that argued for our lynch, at least one must be town, so there's a bit of a safety annex there.

And yeah it creates an IC, but then they just shoot him tonight.

I think the big problem we are worried about is that we don't know if this is mylo or not. If scum is loved we have to hit him or else unless we get a vig from GR or something we just lose.

No, only if both scum are Loved.  If we mislynch today, then night kill tonight, we're down to 4 Town 2 Scum.. 6 players, 4 to lynch.  Loved!Scum can't be lynched, but unloved one can with 4 votes.

Right?

yes but then it goes down to 3 town and 1 scum with 3 to lynch. and that scum is still loved. so we can't win.

[Witherweaver]

Oh. yes. night kill.  You're right.

[pingpongsam]

(If Lio and PPS are willing to go down to their third choice that is.)

I've been voting ash forever. Just because I have preference and arguments doesn't mean I think I know best. Lio is the one trapped in a tunnel.

[pingpongsam]

That an ash proponent has maintained a vote on him and he hasn't gotten lynched suggests he may well be scum.

[liopoil]

I think I'd vote ash or arch over no lynch, now.

[Hydrad]

I think i would only lynch ash/pps and then no lynch. If realllly needed I might lynch arch but I really feel like thats the wrong more.

[Beyond Awesome]

Faust: why did you ask if anyone had gained 1,3, or 4 dice? 

Because I didn't give out these amounts of dice (expect for Ichi, I gave him three dice). So if anyone received that number, I would know that someone else interfered.

Why did you give Ichi 3 dice?

Can you give a breakdown of how many dice you gave to each player?

[faust]

How many dice each player received:

me: 3
Xerxes: 3
Ichi: 3
Hydrad: 7
liopoil: 6
Archetype: 5
pingpongsam: 6
BA: 5
ashersky: 2
chairs: 2
Witherweaver: 0

Reasoning: This list is ordered by scumminess (how I viewed it at that point). My general idea was town players get more dice than scum players. I modified this: PPS and BA claimed to have little to no dice left, so they got more than I otherwise would have given them. Some super townie players like Xerxes and Ichi received fewer dice as well, because I expected them to be night killed (I was very good at predicting the night kills, yay me!) I received fewer dice because hey, I'm a Thief, I'll get the dice I need.

What is this good for again?

[Beyond Awesome]

Interesting. I wonder why it was 42 dice though and not 40 dice as a reward?

I guess though your choices are sensible. I can see you, Ichi, and XP being the likely NKs (although I did not expect XP to be the top NK, and I am certain he only died because of The Mentalist). Hydrad has been my strongest townread all game, so it makes sense that you would give him 7 dice. lio has seemed a bit scummy to me, so I would have given him less dice. I felt he has tried to blend in all game. Ash and chairs though were my two biggest scum reads going in D3. I can see you giving them 2 dice each. What made you feel going in D3 that WW was scum?

[Hydrad]

Interesting. I wonder why it was 42 dice though and not 40 dice as a reward?

I guess though your choices are sensible. I can see you, Ichi, and XP being the likely NKs (although I did not expect XP to be the top NK, and I am certain he only died because of The Mentalist). Hydrad has been my strongest townread all game, so it makes sense that you would give him 7 dice. lio has seemed a bit scummy to me, so I would have given him less dice. I felt he has tried to blend in all game. Ash and chairs though were my two biggest scum reads going in D3. I can see you giving them 2 dice each. What made you feel going in D3 that WW was scum?

I think faust hasn't liked WW since about day 2.

[Beyond Awesome]

Anyway, Faust, I think you really need to think about the whole Mentalist thing. I know to you XP was confirmed town. But, try to see it from the perspective of those who were not visited. Don't you think it a bit strange XP was the first "true" town NK and not you or Ichi? I think this is something you need to really think about rather than deciding that WW and I are scum no matter what.

[Beyond Awesome]

Still missing arch's list.

2 for BA/WW, 2 for Ash, 2 for PPS, 1 for Arch.  I assume Arch would put his top choice in the ash/PPS area.

No consensus, at all.

This is not true. When lists are weighted, it is a literal tie between you and PPS.

[Beyond Awesome]

And, when we go by just the top two choices, PPS comes out ahead.

[Beyond Awesome]

Archetype>>>hydrad>>ashersky/liopoil>no lynch>WW/BA>>>>faust

Why is Hydrad your number two choice?

[Beyond Awesome]

And, when we go by just the top two choices, PPS comes out ahead.

Although, this is because lio has Ash as his third lynch preference and PPS as his first.

Hydrad has Ash and PPS in the same spot.

I have PPS as my top lynch and Ash second.

WW has Ash as his top lynch and PPS as his second.

[Beyond Awesome]

Okay Faust, assuming WW and I are town, who do you think is most likely scum, Ash or PPS?

[Beyond Awesome]

Hydrad, it seems it is a literal tie between Ash and PPS. You have PPS and Ash as your top lynch choices. Of the two, who do you think is most likely scum?

[Hydrad]

Hydrad, it seems it is a literal tie between Ash and PPS. You have PPS and Ash as your top lynch choices. Of the two, who do you think is most likely scum?

I think I would actually go with asher just because I believe PPS's claim so I think asher has the highest chance of being the "dice destroyer"

[pingpongsam]

Archetype>>>hydrad>>ashersky/liopoil>no lynch>WW/BA>>>>faust

Why is Hydrad your number two choice?

We discussed this. Other than his relationship to the Council Room there is nothing specific that confirms him as town but he acts as if he is. If we accept that the QT had masons and the other attendees could have been randomly selected the QT does not conf town him. So, with the idea he is conf town out of the way I have to look at what's left. I choose to believe WW/BA, Faust and ash and lio for reasons I have already discussed to death. Archetype is much more likely in my mind to be scum but hydrad defaults to second because I find nothing that supports him being for sure town like I do in the other guys. While I feel ash is towniest I admit he could easily be scum and I think his flip will be the most useful in the event of a mislynch (my own notwithstanding). That is, I put myself in the same category as ash with regards to the whole context of the game but since I know I am town and well, I am myself too, I have to choose ash instead of myself.

[ashersky]

If WW/BA are not lying, I think scum is in arch/lio/hydrad.  I think it is very unlikely Faust/PPS are scum.

But WW/BA are lying.  If we are going to lose to this fake claim, all of you should be ridiculously embarrassed and ashamed.  I'd much rather die right than survive wrong.  If outing was allowed, I absolutely would at this point.

There are too many inconsistencies, and too many statements they just want you to believe, for this to be just accepted at face value.  Why any of you continue to give them IC status is beyond me.

Those of you blindly following like sheep deserve the loss.  Unfortunately, that means all town gets a loss on their record, and this was a winnable game for town before this.

GG WW/BA.

[ashersky]

In fact, if I am somehow wrong, I can vow never to play another game of mafia again.  That's how strongly I feel about this.

[pingpongsam]

Ashersky, you'll never get 5 ppl to vote for the magical masons today. So, what's the backup plan? There was a point I wanted them lynched too but we have to accept reality here and move forward in the smartest manner possible. Maybe our reward is a town conensus vig, if so tonight we all vote for a magical mason of our choice and hope we get an IC or an easy win tomorrow. That ashersky seems so distraught but hasn't done the signature self vote does make me wonder...

[pingpongsam]

I swear this game feels like it started with a 5 man scum team.

[Beyond Awesome]

ash, what's keeping you from claiming? Your stretching this out is scummy.

I don't trust you and refuse to do what you say.

Why don't you trust Faust?

Why should I?  He's been leading town around like he's king of the world with zero reason.  He's not confirmed town by anyone.

He's pretty clearly scum leading town around like slobbering puppies, and he's wielding his power like that evil guy from Aladdin.  Or, you know, his namesake.

I've seen nothing redeeming in his play that confers on him God Emperor status.  I suggest you all temper for hero worship a bit.

WW/BA > liopoil > archetype > hydrad > PPS > faust

On D3, you said that Faust was definite scum, but yet now on D4, you have scum as the player you want lynched least.