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[Beyond Awesome]

I will also say Ash's VT claim sounds fake. Plus, we know that the LD visited him and he spent dice. So, that is a scary thought there. Between you and Ash, I am torn.

[liopoil]

Ok after all this I feel like pps is telling the truth about his role. But I also believe WW and BA. Faust is town for me also. I think it might be a arch/ash or lio/ash team. Maybe pps is still scum but I think he actually has that role.

But after listening to like 20 pages of almost the same argument I'm in favor of no lynch

Ppe:3

I agree there is probably some element of truth to pps' role. It might even all be true. More likely he fibbed parts of it, particularly the d8 thing, but that doesn't matter. The point is that he is still scum. He might not be the dice destructor. I think it totally possible that dice destruction is a factional power as well. Reads based on roles are just so weak. He has played his role very anti-townly as well. His claiming it on D1 was only potentially a good idea as scum, and really he should be using it, as it does seem to me to be slightly pro-town on average. My role has the potential to be anti-town too, if I give to scum or if the 1d12 is a 1. However I've still used it each night I could because on average it is pro-town.

No lynch will most likely not give us any more information than we already have, and it may come back to bite us depending on how night stuff goes down.

Can we lynch pps now?

[ashersky]

I will also say Ash's VT claim sounds fake. Plus, we know that the LD visited him and he spent dice. So, that is a scary thought there. Between you and Ash, I am torn.

How can a VT claim sound "fake"?  It's either true or a lie, but I didn't make the role up.  Unless you think there are different flavors of townie for the monsters to eat, like chocolate, neopolitan, and banana creme.

If you really are town, why in the world are you doing everything in your power to ensure every single one of your posts paints you as the scummiest player to ever play a game of mafia on this forum?

[pingpongsam]

Well, okay, I admit. I can sort of seeing it being anti-town because one die is restricted in how high it can rool, but someone is still gaining an extra die. I won't say it is anti-town. The ability is neutral at best or slightly pro-town.

It becomes relatively protown when A) I have a better idea of who town is and who is not and B) when roll restrictions start to matter less. In short, the subjective nature of my role changes with game state. In early state my power was remarkably anti-town. That is when I claimed it as such. Now that the game state has changed to where the power could be maybe useful and definitely confirmable I am willing to use it but you want to act as if the game state hasn't changed as a basis for saying I have acted scummy with my role power. I argue I have acted quite responsibly with it.

[ashersky]

On a scale of holyfuckthatismadeup to absolutelyexists, BA's role is the worst (and VT is the best, given we have proof that role is in the game).

Arms Inspector makes zero sense at all as a role, as it doesn't do anything unless someone doesn't have 1d12 (either up or down), and we've yet to see that occur anywhere.  By now, someone would have claimed this.

[ashersky]

Well, okay, I admit. I can sort of seeing it being anti-town because one die is restricted in how high it can rool, but someone is still gaining an extra die. I won't say it is anti-town. The ability is neutral at best or slightly pro-town.

It becomes relatively protown when A) I have a better idea of who town is and who is not and B) when roll restrictions start to matter less. In short, the subjective nature of my role changes with game state. In early state my power was remarkably anti-town. That is when I claimed it as such. Now that the game state has changed to where the power could be maybe useful and definitely confirmable I am willing to use it but you want to act as if the game state hasn't changed as a basis for saying I have acted scummy with my role power. I argue I have acted quite responsibly with it.

Giving one die is "confirmable" if no one else gives one die and the person you give it to doesn't lie.  So no, it isn't confirmable, really.

[pingpongsam]

On a scale of holyfuckthatismadeup to absolutelyexists, BA's role is the worst (and VT is the best, given we have proof that role is in the game).

Arms Inspector makes zero sense at all as a role, as it doesn't do anything unless someone doesn't have 1d12 (either up or down), and we've yet to see that occur anywhere.  By now, someone would have claimed this.

+1, pot calling kettle black to be picking at people's roles.

[faust]

I see now, faust considers lio and arch possibilities. I asked a while ago and never got the answer. Why the conftown read on hydrad? His presence in the council room doesn't absolve him if WW/BA are masons, imho.

I thought Hydrad was town almost certainly before today, and had no reason to change that read. Not confirmed, but he reads super townie.

[Beyond Awesome]

We know there are roles that modify what numbers people can roll. We only learned this fact after I claimed. Not before.

[ashersky]

We know there are roles that modify what numbers people can roll. We only learned this fact after I claimed. Not before.

You mean like the one that blocks rollable numbers?  Here's how that has to work for you:

One night, play X loses the ability to roll 1,2,3,4
Next day, that information is claimed
Next night, you confirm it
Next day, you claim it confirmed

Best case scenario, not knowing the resolution order of night actions, you could both target the same night.

And in the end, that tells us nothing whatsoever.  Since either roll, if they exist, can be help by any alignment, all you've done is confirm that someone can't roll specific numbers.  Like, what purpose does that role serve in the game?

[Beyond Awesome]

We know there are roles that modify what numbers people can roll. We only learned this fact after I claimed. Not before.

You mean like the one that blocks rollable numbers?  Here's how that has to work for you:

One night, play X loses the ability to roll 1,2,3,4
Next day, that information is claimed
Next night, you confirm it
Next day, you claim it confirmed

Best case scenario, not knowing the resolution order of night actions, you could both target the same night.

And in the end, that tells us nothing whatsoever.  Since either roll, if they exist, can be help by any alignment, all you've done is confirm that someone can't roll specific numbers.  Like, what purpose does that role serve in the game?

Well, Hydrad has never rolled higher than a 7. Maybe there is a scum player who can't roll past a certain number. Maybe Volt had a cap on his roll, but we will never know since he's dead. Maybe I have not investigated the right player yet.

[faust]

Ok after all this I feel like pps is telling the truth about his role. But I also believe WW and BA. Faust is town for me also. I think it might be a arch/ash or lio/ash team. Maybe pps is still scum but I think he actually has that role.

But after listening to like 20 pages of almost the same argument I'm in favor of no lynch

Ppe:3

I agree there is probably some element of truth to pps' role. It might even all be true. More likely he fibbed parts of it, particularly the d8 thing, but that doesn't matter. The point is that he is still scum. He might not be the dice destructor. I think it totally possible that dice destruction is a factional power as well. Reads based on roles are just so weak. He has played his role very anti-townly as well. His claiming it on D1 was only potentially a good idea as scum, and really he should be using it, as it does seem to me to be slightly pro-town on average. My role has the potential to be anti-town too, if I give to scum or if the 1d12 is a 1. However I've still used it each night I could because on average it is pro-town.

No lynch will most likely not give us any more information than we already have, and it may come back to bite us depending on how night stuff goes down.

Can we lynch pps now?

Can you please post an actual case on PPS?

[faust]

Also, ash makes so much sense right now, he can't be scum. Scum!ash generally makes much less sense to me.

[Witherweaver]

On a scale of holyfuckthatismadeup to absolutelyexists, BA's role is the worst (and VT is the best, given we have proof that role is in the game).

Arms Inspector makes zero sense at all as a role, as it doesn't do anything unless someone doesn't have 1d12 (either up or down), and we've yet to see that occur anywhere.  By now, someone would have claimed this.

God, there are three claimed abilities that disable certain numbers from being rolled.

Ash can't even make a reasonable argument.

[Witherweaver]

Also, ash makes so much sense right now, he can't be scum. Scum!ash generally makes much less sense to me.

How can you possibly be serious?!  He's posting falsity after falsity.  If you are town you have severely pulled with over your eyes this game.

[ashersky]

On a scale of holyfuckthatismadeup to absolutelyexists, BA's role is the worst (and VT is the best, given we have proof that role is in the game).

Arms Inspector makes zero sense at all as a role, as it doesn't do anything unless someone doesn't have 1d12 (either up or down), and we've yet to see that occur anywhere.  By now, someone would have claimed this.

God, there are three claimed abilities that disable certain numbers from being rolled.

Ash can't even make a reasonable argument.

Claims, claims everywhere!  I'd love some confrrmation, thanks.

[ashersky]

If WW/BA are town, they've blinded themselves with superiority complexes that are not allowed them to look at the game objectively and try to see things from all sides.  It can't just be "let's look at all situations with X=scum".  You need to consider that you may be wrong.  Until that happens, this game will just continue to be a stalemate of yelling past each other.

[Witherweaver]

We know there are roles that modify what numbers people can roll. We only learned this fact after I claimed. Not before.

You mean like the one that blocks rollable numbers?  Here's how that has to work for you:

One night, play X loses the ability to roll 1,2,3,4
Next day, that information is claimed
Next night, you confirm it
Next day, you claim it confirmed

Best case scenario, not knowing the resolution order of night actions, you could both target the same night.

And in the end, that tells us nothing whatsoever.  Since either roll, if they exist, can be help by any alignment, all you've done is confirm that someone can't roll specific numbers.  Like, what purpose does that role serve in the game?

What purpose does PPSs role serve?  What purpose does your role serve?  Or mine?

Our roles are not that great and powerful.  But, hey, his does two things.  It van confirm some of the other roles and it can determine if someone doesn't use d12s.  That could be useful to know I'm a game about rolling dice

[Witherweaver]

On a scale of holyfuckthatismadeup to absolutelyexists, BA's role is the worst (and VT is the best, given we have proof that role is in the game).

Arms Inspector makes zero sense at all as a role, as it doesn't do anything unless someone doesn't have 1d12 (either up or down), and we've yet to see that occur anywhere.  By now, someone would have claimed this.

God, there are three claimed abilities that disable certain numbers from being rolled.

Ash can't even make a reasonable argument.

Claims, claims everywhere!  I'd love some confrrmation, thanks.

Yes. All three players lied.  Brilliant.

Oh. Chairs flipped town.  Does that conformation work?

[ashersky]

Everybody, and I mean everybody, if they are town, needs to look at every single townread and ask the question:

Oh crap, what if {player} is scum?  What am I not considering?

Then look at your scumreads and ask:

Oh crap, what if {player} is town?  What am I not considering?



Instead, we have the BAHs just blindly believing in two players as Innocent Children when they are not mod-confirmed town!  They are not Innocent Children.  They are claimed, unconfirmed masons.  That is a huge difference.

[Hydrad]

Vote: no lynch

Sorry I forgot syntax. Also I see BAs role as something to confirm if people are telling the truth or not to figure out what roles exists. On its own I don't think it has any power. But in combination with others we can use it to confirm what powers exist.

PPE:3

[ashersky]

On a scale of holyfuckthatismadeup to absolutelyexists, BA's role is the worst (and VT is the best, given we have proof that role is in the game).

Arms Inspector makes zero sense at all as a role, as it doesn't do anything unless someone doesn't have 1d12 (either up or down), and we've yet to see that occur anywhere.  By now, someone would have claimed this.

God, there are three claimed abilities that disable certain numbers from being rolled.

Ash can't even make a reasonable argument.

Claims, claims everywhere!  I'd love some confrrmation, thanks.

Yes. All three players lied.  Brilliant.

Oh. Chairs flipped town.  Does that conformation work?

Chairs flipped "Town Manipulator" and we can believe his claim.  That doesn't confirm anyone else's ALIGNMENT or role.  How are you not understanding this?

If Player A flips Cop, that does not prove Player B is a Godfather.  One role does not prove the existence of another.

[Hydrad]

Everybody, and I mean everybody, if they are town, needs to look at every single townread and ask the question:

Oh crap, what if {player} is scum?  What am I not considering?

Then look at your scumreads and ask:

Oh crap, what if {player} is town?  What am I not considering?



Instead, we have the BAHs just blindly believing in two players as Innocent Children when they are not mod-confirmed town!  They are not Innocent Children.  They are claimed, unconfirmed masons.  That is a huge difference.

Don't worry I'm not blindly following them. I think they are town for now but am trying to keep my mind open. Also that's why I like the no lynch to see if we can catch someone in a lie

[ashersky]

Hey guys, BoxofDOG flipped Vanilla Townie.  That's conclusive proof that Faust is a thief!

That's a nonsense line, and it's the same one people are using the try to prove that BA's claim is superduperawesomeamazinghonest.

[Witherweaver]

Can the town player(s) out of Ash, Faust, and PPS please stop acting so scummy?