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[faust]

WW, you never bothered to respond to my case on you, so I'm not really motivated to respond to your case why you're town.

[Witherweaver]

Checking.

What case on me?

[faust]

And what about order?  If you steal from someone, you receive dice right?  How do we know the die you get isn't the d8.  What if someone uses Love Doctor to receive dice with Hated?  What if part of the prize tonight is to receive dice?  How do we know how "next" resolves?

PPE is a thing.

[Witherweaver]

From before:

Yeah I am still down for Vote: yuma

His claim smacked of a lie off the bat. My role directly inserts an 8 sided die into a players supply and thus corresponds with BA's claim.

Wait, what? can you expand on that bit about your role?

It's fairly complicated and totally swingy. When I target a player they receive a 12 sided die. However, when any other player ( I assume the next one but no further after?) gains a die through any method it will be an 8 sided die without their knowledge. Their rolls will alternate between the 8 sided die and the 12 sided dies in their supply. Thus, having a role that detects how many sides are on dice directly relates to what my role does.

[faust]

Faustus Aurelius Productions proudly presents:

Beyond Awesome and Witherweaver: A scum narrative

N0

Scum meets. WW has a dice destroying power and uses it on PPS, because hey, why not? BA might actually have a power similar to the one he claimed.

D1

BA and WW start the game with a nice little ping-ponging with WW asking questions and BA answering them. Then there's the rerolling, where the highest dice roll (from BA) doesn't get rerolled. Still mildly suspicious. #178 features WW fishing for Xerxes' role. #183, BA jumps a wagon on Ichi because he's "quiet" and rolled low. WW also hedging on Ichi. #223, WW uses the classical logical fallacy "I can't always be scum" to defend himself. BA posts his reads in #250: scum read on Voltaire for low roll, town read on WW for flavor reasons when it has been explicitly stated that flavor has no meaning for the game. That's the classical distribution for reads on scum partners: one scummy, one towny.

A long time not much notable. WW votes BA at some point, but doesn't really push this lynch. Then, in post #417, BA defends WW against my accusations. Then, #580 is another interesting reads post from BA. He calls Voltaire "a bit suspicious" and votes for him. He forgets to list WW. Overall, the most scummy Voltaire vote of the day.

In #609, WW states reads, says he finds BA the most scummy, and "doesn't see how this isn't town Volt". That's an especially strong read to have when Volt has done nothing that stands out. Casting suspicion on BA on the other hand is safe, noone else is really suspecting him.

N1

Not much to learn here. Box was a good taget: He claimed lots of dice, seemed townie, yet not enough for people to protect him. WW plans something to make BA look more townie and attacks him (or doesn't, and they just agree to tell this story).

D2

BA opens with a very fake-seeming post. WW states "my reads suck" immediately afterwards, trying to prevent suspicion because of his read on Voltaire and to protect BA. #704 is the classic "I understand why you are voting for me" scumtell. There's also the thing where BA knows that mail-mi was attacked, which I overlooked. WW was very reluctant to answer whether or not he targeted me N1, as is BA. Are they afraid I might find something out?

Throughout the day, BA continues to have an inexplicable town read on WW. In #1001, WW joins the e wagon pretty much without reasoning and giving up his strong scum read on BA rather easily. Post #1082 is BA again defending WW, continuing in a very fishy defense in #1086. When I call WW out for not being on the VOltaire wagon, he cites his scum meta to show that he's usually bussing, which is a bad defense also. Post #1172 is also very telling, hey, I'll even link it.

In #1384, WW says he gets a "huge scumread" on BA, but leaves his vote on PPS. Then, BA is afraid of a mislynch and claims his weird role. #1419 scummy again, with BA saying "I am not trying to get out of being lynched". Really? #1564, BA goes after the easy mislynch chairs, without much of a case at all. Post #1603, #1604 are again interesting BA - WW interaction. In #1610, WW is suddenly okay with lyching e. Why? BA hammers shortly thereafter. (Doesn't really... but they think he does) Supremely scummy.

N2

This is probably where WW makes up his fakeclaim. The Xerxes NK is obvious.

D3

WW's claim:

Okay, looks like there are no dissenters to mass claiming.  I'll go ahead and start

I am a Town X-Shot Saboteur.  I can reveal what X is, but not sure if I should.  I have not used any shots.  This is what my power does:

During the night, I may name a single player, and that player is unable to roll any of the three highest-scoring values.  I can only name one player per night (i.e., I can only use one shot a night). 

Moreover, if I die, then for each shot I have remaining, a random player will be Sabotaged (effect above) on each of the following two days. 

I read this as, if I have X shots left and die tonight, then tomorrow X random players get Sabotaged, and the next day X random players get Sabotaged again.

This is why I didn't want to claim my roll before.. I saw this as largely anti-town, because in most cases we want high rolls.  If I'm night killed, then the effect seems pretty bad for us.  I did not use any shots because there was no reason to believe we wouldn't want high rolls, and even if I had a strong scum read on someone, we still want them to play high.

However, this effect is a boon for these monsters:

OGRE - Only 1s and 2s count.

GOBLIN - Even numbers count as negative.

For those of us that can roll up to 12, my effect takes away 10,11, and 12 as possibilities, so two evens and one odd. (In fact, probably true for anyone, because the highest value is probably even.)  For Ogres, the chance to get 1 or 2 is reduced from 2/12 to 2/9.  So at this point it could help.  This is also why I asked yesterday if anyone had the ability to see what monsters are coming up, so I'd know if I should use my power or not.

The only night actions I've taken were to target Faust with the medical thing on Night 1 and Faust again with the treasure thing on Night 2.

I don't know if we're doing full die claiming, so I won't do that, but as I said before, I lost four dice from my Supply last night.  Nothing happened to me on the previous nights.

I already mentioned how this is a scummy claim: No confirmable actions yet, potentially helpful later, penalty for getting lynched. What add to this is that the role is very similar to chairs' role, but strictly worse for town. I don't think Jimmmmm would include two roles of this kind. Post #1975 reads like: "I made up such an awesome role, why don't you believe me?"

It's also very very much notable how WW screamed "lynch BA next!!!" on D2 and apparently completely forgot about his intentions on D3. How does that happen? In #2131, BA puts chairs at L-1 (wasn't actually, but he thought it was) after he stated he was going to self-hammer. Also very scummy.

N3

Now things get really juicy. WW and BA are being pulled into the Council, under fake names. They decide to use that as an advantage and claim Masons. I will say here that this makes no sense. If the reward was to give us Masons, what was the rest of the Council all about? I don't think Jimmmmm would just add such an unneccessary thing to a reward that is otherwise pretty straightforward. Two, why wouldn't they claim their names? Doing so would maybe kill one of them, but then they know there's scum among Hydrad/Ichi, which seems a good bargain. Three, WW and BA, really? What are the odds for two players that are so scummy to be chosen as Masons?

WW then claims to target BA, which is good because it takes him one day further without having to be confirmed, and the next day is already MyLo. Him targeting BA is town doesn't make sense. BA is confirmed town, shouldn't he be targeting the player who are scum to make it more likely that they have to contribute? Also, it was clear that BA was low on dice. No, that night action doesn't make any sense.

That's pretty much it. The scumminess of the two becomes ever more apparent going on.

[faust]

Not even including today, with would also fill a couple of pages.

[faust]

From before:

Yeah I am still down for Vote: yuma

His claim smacked of a lie off the bat. My role directly inserts an 8 sided die into a players supply and thus corresponds with BA's claim.

Wait, what? can you expand on that bit about your role?

It's fairly complicated and totally swingy. When I target a player they receive a 12 sided die. However, when any other player ( I assume the next one but no further after?) gains a die through any method it will be an 8 sided die without their knowledge. Their rolls will alternate between the 8 sided die and the 12 sided dies in their supply. Thus, having a role that detects how many sides are on dice directly relates to what my role does.

Hmm. PPS, please clarify.

[Witherweaver]

Faustus Aurelius Productions proudly presents:

Beyond Awesome and Witherweaver: A scum narrative
...

So Day 1 I didn't see a reason to think Voltaire was scummy.  I still don't; I don't know how everyone picked him out.  I found BA to be behaving the scummiest throughout most of everything.  I recall stating this a bit later once I realized that I was confusing players.

When I stated "my reads suck" I was confusing BA and Box. So my reads sucking was referring to Volt ending up scum and my scum read ending up town.

I was never reluctant to answer anything about targeting you.  I never made any logical fallacy in defending myself, also.  BA did, and I called him out on it.  "I can't always be scum" is obviously not a real defense.

I agree that BA's townread on me was inexplicable, and questionable.  It's why I considered him to be so scummy.  Reminded me a TON of how DD behaved in Monster's U.  What I said about Voltaire is just true.

I tried to push BA lynches multiple times, and no one jumped on.  I began to suspect PPS because I was coming up with an idea that he faked the whole dice thing on Day 1 to play the victim, with knowledge about scum's roles.  The big thing that was weird to me was how he kept talking about having his dice stolen, and then later on a thief comes and claims.  So I think I was back and forth between PPS and e because of that dichotomy. 

I'm not sure what you mean by the Xerxes kill being obvious.  I didn't know he was town at all, and I believe at this point I had no idea what was going on with everyone that was "in" on the thing.

There is nothing scummy about my claim at all.  I did things in the past that make sense given my claim (resist early claim, try to figure out if we could plan for what monsters were coming up).

Now things get really juicy. WW and BA are being pulled into the Council, under fake names. They decide to use that as an advantage and claim Masons. I will say here that this makes no sense. If the reward was to give us Masons, what was the rest of the Council all about? I don't think Jimmmmm would just add such an unneccessary thing to a reward that is otherwise pretty straightforward. Two, why wouldn't they claim their names? Doing so would maybe kill one of them, but then they know there's scum among Hydrad/Ichi, which seems a good bargain. Three, WW and BA, really? What are the odds for two players that are so scummy to be chosen as Masons?

The issue with me and BA in the QT I already addressed.  Pulling two remaining scum players (what would happen if there were one or three?) into a QT under pseudonyms as a Town reward is just not reasonable. 

I didn't think about using our names to out potential scum in Hydrad/Ichi.  But not a very foolproof plan.. it doesn't prove they're scum just because one of us died.  Also, even so, it would still be the word of me/BA against scum in Hydrad/Ichi. 

Three, WW and BA, really? What are the odds for two players that are so scummy to be chosen as Masons?

This part amounts to I'm scummy because I'm scummy.  And anyway, I wasn't.  I agree that BA was acting scummy, but I was not and you were the only one that had cast suspicion on me before.

[Witherweaver]

Me targeting BA with my ability is obvious, by the way... he's the only player whose alignment I know. I guess I could have thought of it in terms of having other people verify my role, but that didn't occur to me.  My idea going into the night was simply to target whomever I thought was the Towniest player (it may have still been you there, but at this point I was getting nervous about your claim) and announce it the next day.  When BA was confirmed, it made the most sense to target him.  I didn't announce it in the QT because that would give away my identity.

[Witherweaver]

Maybe you can argue pseudonyms were not a good idea.  I'm not sure.  I was actually going to just post as myself without thinking it through much (I didn't immediately see the need for pseudonyms), though BA had already posted in there as Bob and suggested we use them.  And I figured there must be a reason why we have them at all, and I'm guessing it was because scum could have been Neighbors.  So using them seemed safer, since I couldn't think of a good reason not to.

[pingpongsam]

Firstly, I don't think I should specify who I am going to target because that makes them an obvious NK candidate with the WIFOM that scum!pps would claim his target accidentally died. If scum NK my target with luck then lucky them but I'm not thinking it wise to tell them the target up front. The real fun will be when I send my die to scum and they deny having received it and it comes down to a liar-liar situation where I am certain to lose. so, let's hope I target a townie that survives.

As for my role power. I can't quote waht is said but it is rather terse and thus open to some interpretation but this much is clear:

A) I give a die to someone and they knowingly receive a d12.
B) When any other player gains a die through any means at all that die will be a d8 and they will be unaware of it.
B1) I believe that only one person will receive a d8, it is not abundantly clear because someone pointed out all of this night stuff happens simultaneously but I am assuming my role power has some resolution order that Jimmmmm mapped out beforehand. Again, my interpretation is only one player will receive a single d8 and they won't know it is a d8 only that they received a die or some dice but that reception would be through some other means than my giving of the d12 to another person.
B2) In other words, in order for me to solely insure that a specific recipient received the d8 I would presumably have to give them the d12 and then have additional capacity to immediately give them more dice like faust was able to do with the reward and specify that person as the recipient. Even then I don't know Jimmmmm's order of resolution so I couldn't be certain I had given that person the d8 even in this hypothetical situation.
C) The person who receives the d8 will alternate between it and the other dice when they roll which insinuates to me that the d8 is not consumed until they run entirely out of dice and even then I cannot be 100% certain it doesn't reappear if they were to have additional dice supplied to them after exhausting the initial amount. There is simply not that much information in my PM. If we really want clarification on these things I can ask in my QT.

So for example let us say that the recipient of the d8 had 2 dice and received 3 in the night (one of them being the sneaky d8) so he begins the day with 5 dice. Let us say he rolls 3 dice he will effectively be rolling a d12, d12, d8 configuration. Then, let us say a day transpires and he goes into the next day with 2 dice in supply and rolls those dice that day. He would be rolling a d8,d12 configuration on that day.

That's how i understand it.

Another question popped into my head, if they were to do like Ash and trade all of their dice for something from say the LD and then later gain dice would the d8 still be there? I do not know.

[Beyond Awesome]

Please explain PPS why you made a big deal out of your role being anti-town? Now that you have clarified, your claim sounds town.

Let's look at this scenario.

Player 1 gets 1d12 from lio

1d12 in circulation.

Scenario 2

Player 1 gets 1d12 from PPS
Player 2 gets 1d8 from Lio

Dice in circulation 1d12 and 1d8

Now, earlier, you made it seem as if the next player to recieve dice would alternate between d8's and 12's, not that they would have 1d8 in their supply instead of a d12. Anyway, you should have used your power every day if what you claim is true because putting another die in circulation is not scummy.

You see in both scenarios a d12 is in circulation, but in scenario 2 a d12 and d8 is in circulation.

Now, can we please lynch PPS please?

[Beyond Awesome]

Also, PPS you keep changing your story on how your ability works. You can't even keep your lie straight.

[pingpongsam]

Yeah, it's awesome to not be able to roll over 8 and not have any idea why your rolls are coming out so low when you're trying to get that high number and then everyone says you must be scum for low rolling and mislynches you. Wonderful way to treat fellow townies.

Please tell me you're going to feel like an idiot when I flip town.

I have not changed any stories.

[pingpongsam]

Also, you are incorrect, my power only puts one additional die into the universe (per use). The d8 is given by another play unwittingly, in place of the d12 they thought they were giving.

[Beyond Awesome]

In one side, you are saying they get 1 d8. No big deal there. On another side, you are saying every other die they roll will be a d8. Make up your mind.

PPE

[Witherweaver]

Also, PPS you keep changing your story on how your ability works. You can't even keep your lie straight.

The only change, I think, was him initially saying it "directly" inserted a die to the more complicated explanation.  This was brought up before.  What he described here is, I think, consistent with what he said after being prompted for more explanation.

[Witherweaver]

In one side, you are saying they get 1 d8. No big deal there. On another side, you are saying every other die they roll will be a d8. Make up your mind.

PPE

I think the latter was said by Faust, not PPS.

[Beyond Awesome]

Also, you are incorrect, my power only puts one additional die into the universe (per use). The d8 is given by another play unwittingly, in place of the d12 they thought they were giving.

Okay, so a player has 1d8 in their supply. Big deal. That is one more die in circulation.

PPE

[Beyond Awesome]

In one side, you are saying they get 1 d8. No big deal there. On another side, you are saying every other die they roll will be a d8. Make up your mind.

PPE

I think the latter was said by Faust, not PPS.

I think PPS said it at one point as well.

[Witherweaver]

Yeah, it's awesome to not be able to roll over 8 and not have any idea why your rolls are coming out so low when you're trying to get that high number and then everyone says you must be scum for low rolling and mislynches you. Wonderful way to treat fellow townies.

Please tell me you're going to feel like an idiot when I flip town.

I have not changed any stories.

But it's only one die that is a d8, right?

[pingpongsam]

My PM uses the word "alternate". The rolling player will alternate between the d8 and the d12s in their supply.

[pingpongsam]

It isn't clear if the d8 gets consumed in one alternation or not. That it is not clear leads me to believe the d8 continues to be alternated against until the supply is exhausted. Yes, it is only one d8 but it appears to live on until all dice are gone.

[Witherweaver]

My PM uses the word "alternate". The rolling player will alternate between the d8 and the d12s in their supply.

This doesn't make sense to me.  How many d8's are in their supply?

[Witherweaver]

Notably, this thread will soon overcome "Homage to the Best Card" and may eventually overcome "Random Stuff".  Let's all take a moment to pat ourselves on the back.