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[ashersky]

Jimmm would have decided rewards before starting the game, I'm sure.

I'm pretty sure he has a pool of rewards to randomly choose from.  Even if he doesn't, if there were more scum than town (the situation where a random role can't return 2 town to join council), scum has already won, dude.

So now who's obtuse?

If there are three scum alive and he chooses four people randomly then it's possible to not have two town.

I mentioned this in a subsequent post.  But there weren't 3 scum alive, so this is a moot point.

[Witherweaver]

The only time a random roll of 4 players isn't guaranteed to return at least two town is when all three scum are alive.  Maybe the size of the Council is determined by size of player pool (50% rounded down, for example).

It's obviously possible he rolled two random townies to be masons then two random players to be neighbors with them.  I'm saying you cannot be sure that happened, but you continue to act like you are.  I am then arguing that since you are making that argument, it's actually because you and BA have been partners the entire time, so you aren't separating yourself like you should have to begin with.

This is the most likely case, so it's the one I'm taking to be true.  The wording in the QT hints at this.

[Witherweaver]

Did you read Hydrad's post about how we interacted in the QT?

I did.  I also read how you stated you didn't get to the QT until way after it opened.  If you are scum, you go to the QT website and you absolutely read your scum QT first, to see what BA has said and tells you to say in the Council QT.

Yes, BA and I had a masterful plan for him to not understand what a Mason was in the Council QT.

[ashersky]

The only time a random roll of 4 players isn't guaranteed to return at least two town is when all three scum are alive.  Maybe the size of the Council is determined by size of player pool (50% rounded down, for example).

It's obviously possible he rolled two random townies to be masons then two random players to be neighbors with them.  I'm saying you cannot be sure that happened, but you continue to act like you are.  I am then arguing that since you are making that argument, it's actually because you and BA have been partners the entire time, so you aren't separating yourself like you should have to begin with.

This is the most likely case, so it's the one I'm taking to be true.  The wording in the QT hints at this.

Will you concede that it is not guaranteed to be true?  You keep talking like it is, but now you use words ilke "most likely case" and "hints."

IT IS NOT CONFIRMED THAT IT WORKED THIS WAY.  It is also not confirmed that you are masons.  Only way to confirm that is a flip.  Are you convinced your flip will say you are a Mason?

[ashersky]

Did you read Hydrad's post about how we interacted in the QT?

I did.  I also read how you stated you didn't get to the QT until way after it opened.  If you are scum, you go to the QT website and you absolutely read your scum QT first, to see what BA has said and tells you to say in the Council QT.

Yes, BA and I had a masterful plan for him to not understand what a Mason was in the Council QT.

It says masons in your personal QT, right?  I'm to believe he went many many hours without looking it up or asking?  "Newbie ignorance" is a scum tactic.  It's used every single game with newbie scum.

[Witherweaver]

The only time a random roll of 4 players isn't guaranteed to return at least two town is when all three scum are alive.  Maybe the size of the Council is determined by size of player pool (50% rounded down, for example).

It's obviously possible he rolled two random townies to be masons then two random players to be neighbors with them.  I'm saying you cannot be sure that happened, but you continue to act like you are.  I am then arguing that since you are making that argument, it's actually because you and BA have been partners the entire time, so you aren't separating yourself like you should have to begin with.

This is the most likely case, so it's the one I'm taking to be true.  The wording in the QT hints at this.

Will you concede that it is not guaranteed to be true?  You keep talking like it is, but now you use words ilke "most likely case" and "hints."

IT IS NOT CONFIRMED THAT IT WORKED THIS WAY.  It is also not confirmed that you are masons.  Only way to confirm that is a flip.  Are you convinced your flip will say you are a Mason?

Actually I don't know if it will say I'm a Mason.  I'm thinking not, because that's not what my role PM says.  It will say Saboteur.  QT specifically used the word "Mason" though.  It's up to the mod to figure out if role modifications show on flip I guess.

[ashersky]

First message in Council (from Jimmm) said Alice, Bob, Ichimaru and Hydrad were present.  First poster was BA (as Bob). 

When I came in (the QT opened up at night and I didn't see it until the next morning), Bob had posted a few messages from the previous night and Hydrad had checked in.  I decided to post under Alice as well. (BA's third message was to tell me (Alice) he knew my identity and to use pseudonyms until today.)

WW, don't be super-duper specific or you may get modkilled.

It was stated I could paraphrase, so I believe I was within those confines.

I was meaning more with your PM.

Arch, what PM are you referring to here?

[ashersky]

Four players.  I received a in my person QT saying I have been invited to attend the Council, along with my fellow Mason, Beyond Awesome (in green text) and it explicitly said he was town-aligned (again, green text).  It  also said that two Neighbors (bold, not green) have been randomly selected from all other players to join as well.

Then it said that if I want to protect my identity, I can post under the pseudonym Alice.  It informed me that Beyond Awesome could post under the pseudonym Bob.  It then gave me a link to the Council QT.

Here's the original explanation from WW again.  He claims here it says "fellow Mason" in green.

[Archetype]

First message in Council (from Jimmm) said Alice, Bob, Ichimaru and Hydrad were present.  First poster was BA (as Bob). 

When I came in (the QT opened up at night and I didn't see it until the next morning), Bob had posted a few messages from the previous night and Hydrad had checked in.  I decided to post under Alice as well. (BA's third message was to tell me (Alice) he knew my identity and to use pseudonyms until today.)

WW, don't be super-duper specific or you may get modkilled.

It was stated I could paraphrase, so I believe I was within those confines.

I was meaning more with your PM.

Arch, what PM are you referring to here?

When he was told that he and BA were Masons. He was talking about the color of the text and stuff which is pushing it claiming-wise.

[Beyond Awesome]

Four players.  I received a in my person QT saying I have been invited to attend the Council, along with my fellow Mason, Beyond Awesome (in green text) and it explicitly said he was town-aligned (again, green text).  It  also said that two Neighbors (bold, not green) have been randomly selected from all other players to join as well.

Then it said that if I want to protect my identity, I can post under the pseudonym Alice.  It informed me that Beyond Awesome could post under the pseudonym Bob.  It then gave me a link to the Council QT.

Here's the original explanation from WW again.  He claims here it says "fellow Mason" in green.

It does say that and our names also appear in green. Anyway, at first, I just thought WW was a Mason because I thought that was his role name like Arms Inspector was my role name. I did not even know I was a Mason until WW said I was a Mason in the QT because it referred to WW as my fellow mason who was town-aligned. So, when it mentioned town-aligned, I actually assumed Mason was his role title. I actually thought WW fake claimed his Saboteur role or had his role changed to Mason when I got the message. The word Mason appeared in green before his name, so I thought that was his role since when people flip, we get their role title and then their name.

PPE

[Witherweaver]

Did you read Hydrad's post about how we interacted in the QT?

I did.  I also read how you stated you didn't get to the QT until way after it opened.  If you are scum, you go to the QT website and you absolutely read your scum QT first, to see what BA has said and tells you to say in the Council QT.

Yes, BA and I had a masterful plan for him to not understand what a Mason was in the Council QT.

It says masons in your personal QT, right?  I'm to believe he went many many hours without looking it up or asking?  "Newbie ignorance" is a scum tactic.  It's used every single game with newbie scum.

I'm pretty sure he didn't key in on "Mason" being a role, just that my alignment was revealed.  The QT doesn't use the phrase "hi you're Masons".  Or maybe he just thought it was calling me a Mason (it uses the modifier "fellow") and didn't know what it meant.  I don't know.  But Hydrad can verify there was some pretty obvious confusion in the Council QT, and I admitted the town-aligned part right off the bat, no time to create a fake story.

[Witherweaver]

First message in Council (from Jimmm) said Alice, Bob, Ichimaru and Hydrad were present.  First poster was BA (as Bob). 

When I came in (the QT opened up at night and I didn't see it until the next morning), Bob had posted a few messages from the previous night and Hydrad had checked in.  I decided to post under Alice as well. (BA's third message was to tell me (Alice) he knew my identity and to use pseudonyms until today.)

WW, don't be super-duper specific or you may get modkilled.

It was stated I could paraphrase, so I believe I was within those confines.

I was meaning more with your PM.

Arch, what PM are you referring to here?

When he was told that he and BA were Masons. He was talking about the color of the text and stuff which is pushing it claiming-wise.

It was in the person QT not a PM, but in other games it would be a PM thing.

[Beyond Awesome]

For reference, the message says Mason WW who is town-aligned. Except those things were in green. So, Mason appears before his name, so I assumed it was a role like Arms Inspector.

[ashersky]

liopoil, you're asking me to bet the game on PPS being scum, and asking me to bet the game on believing WW/BA.

[Beyond Awesome]

Then, when WW tells me I was a Mason, I got even more confused and thought my role of Arms Inspector went away so I had to ask Jimmmm to make sure this was not the case.

[Beyond Awesome]

To be precise, I actually asked Jimmm if I could still use my Arms Inspector ability. I did not ask if my role of Arms Inspector was changed into Mason.

[Beyond Awesome]

There is even a message in the Council Room QT where I announce that Jimmm got back to me and told me that WW and I can still use our abilities. I think Hydrad brought this up, but he can confirm that if you want him to.

[liopoil]

liopoil, you're asking me to bet the game on PPS being scum, and asking me to bet the game on believing WW/BA.

if pps is scum then ww/BA must be telling the truth anyway, so the second is redundant. But no, it is possible that even if  PPS is somehow town that we could still win this.

[ashersky]

liopoil, you're asking me to bet the game on PPS being scum, and asking me to bet the game on believing WW/BA.

if pps is scum then ww/BA must be telling the truth anyway, so the second is redundant. But no, it is possible that even if  PPS is somehow town that we could still win this.

I suppose it's the other way around then.  You are asking me to bet the game on WW/BA being honest.

[liopoil]

liopoil, you're asking me to bet the game on PPS being scum, and asking me to bet the game on believing WW/BA.

if pps is scum then ww/BA must be telling the truth anyway, so the second is redundant. But no, it is possible that even if  PPS is somehow town that we could still win this.

I suppose it's the other way around then.  You are asking me to bet the game on WW/BA being honest.

Well, no, because even if we mislynch we still have a chance. This isn't mylo. But if it were, we'd have to bet the game on something anyway.

[ashersky]

liopoil, you're asking me to bet the game on PPS being scum, and asking me to bet the game on believing WW/BA.

if pps is scum then ww/BA must be telling the truth anyway, so the second is redundant. But no, it is possible that even if  PPS is somehow town that we could still win this.

I suppose it's the other way around then.  You are asking me to bet the game on WW/BA being honest.

Well, no, because even if we mislynch we still have a chance. This isn't mylo. But if it were, we'd have to bet the game on something anyway.

If scum are loved, it is mylo.

[Witherweaver]

You know that I have both been attacked by dice reduction.  You know this because Faust claimed to steal from me and Faust and I can't both be lying if I'm scum.  I suppose you can't be sure that BA's was legitimate, but he was attacked as well.  You also know that we've both been playing high rolls all game (except when low ones were needed, obviously). 

The likelihood for us having dice to spend on permanent Lovedhood is pretty small.

[Witherweaver]

How much does it cost?  10?

[Hydrad]

liopoil, you're asking me to bet the game on PPS being scum, and asking me to bet the game on believing WW/BA.

if pps is scum then ww/BA must be telling the truth anyway, so the second is redundant. But no, it is possible that even if  PPS is somehow town that we could still win this.

I suppose it's the other way around then.  You are asking me to bet the game on WW/BA being honest.

Well, no, because even if we mislynch we still have a chance. This isn't mylo. But if it were, we'd have to bet the game on something anyway.

If scum are loved, it is mylo.

We still have outs such as getting the GR and using the vig ability to kill a scum. But yes better to not be in that situation where we have to hope

PPE:2

[Hydrad]

How much does it cost?  10?

I think it was mentioned that it was 5 dice to be loved for the rest of the game