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[Beyond Awesome]

This is ridiculous. Not a scumslip.

Can you explain the inconsistencies?

There isn't an inconsistency.  Your paraphrase was almost entirely correct except for the extra "randomly".  That we were randomly selected is the obvious assumption, it just didn't explicitly say so in the QT.

You are being absurd, and you know it.

I'm not being absurd.  I asked if my paraphrase was right.  One of you said yes, the other said no.  In fact, the one who said yes went so far as to then say he made a mistake and double-checked in his QT.  If there was no inconsistency, why did he own up to it?

You are being absurd because you got caught.

Actually, I really did think my QT message said we were randomly chosen. So, I went back and double-checked what it said and the QT does not say WW and I are randomly chosen. It does say the neighbors are randomly chosen though.

See WW, BA continues to agree that there was an inconsistency between your two answers, even though you deny it.

No. I just did not remember the exact wording of my QT. I thought it did say WW and I were randomly chosen, and I remembered incorrectly.

[ashersky]

This is ridiculous. Not a scumslip.

Can you explain the inconsistencies?

There isn't an inconsistency.  Your paraphrase was almost entirely correct except for the extra "randomly".  That we were randomly selected is the obvious assumption, it just didn't explicitly say so in the QT.

You are being absurd, and you know it.

Agreed 100%.

But folks, as I've said since early on this day, ww/BA lynch isn't happening today, period. Stop trying to lynch them. Stop responding to posts trying to lynch them.

8 alive, takes 5 to lynch.  You are saying you will force a no lynch before ensuring we get a lynch today?  That's what you are doing by trying to stop all discussion about lynching.

[ashersky]

No. I just did not remember the exact wording of my QT. I thought it did say WW and I were randomly chosen, and I remembered incorrectly.

In answering the exact same question, the two "masons" gave opposite answers.  That's an inconsistency which you are attempting to squirrel away through "misrememberance" arguments.

[Beyond Awesome]

No. I just did not remember the exact wording of my QT. I thought it did say WW and I were randomly chosen, and I remembered incorrectly.

In answering the exact same question, the two "masons" gave opposite answers.  That's an inconsistency which you are attempting to squirrel away through "misrememberance" arguments.

Dude, how am I supposed to remember the exact wording of a message I get in my QT? It did say players were chosen randomly. For some reason, I thought it also said WW and I were also chosen randomly.

[Witherweaver]

No. I just did not remember the exact wording of my QT. I thought it did say WW and I were randomly chosen, and I remembered incorrectly.

In answering the exact same question, the two "masons" gave opposite answers.  That's an inconsistency which you are attempting to squirrel away through "misrememberance" arguments.

Okay I'm convinced.

Vote: Ashersky

If he's not scum he's just trying to lose.

[liopoil]

This is ridiculous. Not a scumslip.

Can you explain the inconsistencies?

There isn't an inconsistency.  Your paraphrase was almost entirely correct except for the extra "randomly".  That we were randomly selected is the obvious assumption, it just didn't explicitly say so in the QT.

You are being absurd, and you know it.

Agreed 100%.

But folks, as I've said since early on this day, ww/BA lynch isn't happening today, period. Stop trying to lynch them. Stop responding to posts trying to lynch them.

8 alive, takes 5 to lynch.  You are saying you will force a no lynch before ensuring we get a lynch today?  That's what you are doing by trying to stop all discussion about lynching.

Yes, here are my priorities today:

1st choice - Lynch pps
2nd choice - No lynch
3rd choice - lynch somebody else

[ashersky]

8 alive (6 town), 5 to lynch on D4.  A loved scum means 6 to lynch.  No lynch means...

7 alive (5 town), 4 to lynch on D5.  A loved scum means 5 to lynch.  No lynch means loved scum auto-wins.  Mislynch means loved scum auto-wins.  So D5 is lylo for town if we no lynch today and scum is or gets loved.

Instead...8 alive (6 town), 5 to lynch on D4.  Mislynch means...
6 alive (4 town), 4 to lynch on D4.  A loved scum means 5 to lynch.  Scum auto-wins.

So, the risks are, if a scum is loved already, or can get it tonight, the game is over with a mislynch today.  A no lynch just pushes that scenario to tomorrow, but with one less mislynch option (unless scum no kills).

To me, while no lynch is "safe" it is just delaying the inevitable.

[Witherweaver]

And my QT uses the word "other"

Right.  Here's a way to write it in your scum QT:

"The town defeated the monster and has been rewarded with Council.  You must post in this QT (link) tonight.  The others in the QT will be randomly selected from remaining players.  You may create aliases to post, using the names Alice and Bob."

And there is zero reason to think this is true, unless you're trying blindly to push for mislynches.

[ashersky]

No. I just did not remember the exact wording of my QT. I thought it did say WW and I were randomly chosen, and I remembered incorrectly.

In answering the exact same question, the two "masons" gave opposite answers.  That's an inconsistency which you are attempting to squirrel away through "misrememberance" arguments.

Okay I'm convinced.

Vote: Ashersky

If he's not scum he's just trying to lose.

Scummy post.

[ashersky]

And my QT uses the word "other"

Right.  Here's a way to write it in your scum QT:

"The town defeated the monster and has been rewarded with Council.  You must post in this QT (link) tonight.  The others in the QT will be randomly selected from remaining players.  You may create aliases to post, using the names Alice and Bob."

And there is zero reason to think this is true, unless you're trying blindly to push for mislynches.

Just as much reason to think what you are claiming is true.  It's 100000000% unverified that you two are masons.  There is literally nothing to prove it.  It's just the word of two players.

I still have yet to see anyone posit reasoning for how Council was a town reward if all it was was this.

[Witherweaver]

This:

Ash, the other two were chosen randomly.  It said this  in our QTs

was a phone post in response to this:

This definitely points to BA/WW being Town. Why would it continue to be open? As soon as no one claims Alice or Bob the following day, the QT becomes useless because the other two players in the QT know they are talking to scum since they didn't claim to be Alice or Bob.

I don't know.  It could mean BA/WW is town and the other to are scum.  Except IG died and flipped town, so that's not it.  That still leaves BA/WW are scum and Ichi/Hydrad are town as options.

Scum teams claiming masons is a thing.  It's not unheard of.  It works well if they are believed.

The reason for me posting this is to show that the Council setup is independent of alignment of IG/Hydrad.  Obviously it couldn't just be four random players, because there would be no guarantee scum would be dead and you can't have Masons with one town.    My best educated guess is that Jimmm randomly chose two remaining town players to make Masons, and then randomly chose two more players from everyone else left alive to be in the QT. 

This is also the most obvious thing, and almost entirely confirmed.

[ashersky]

Yes, here are my priorities today:

1st choice - Lynch pps
2nd choice - No lynch
3rd choice - lynch somebody else

Why are you resigned to the "if BA/WW are lying, they deserve to win" mentality?

[pingpongsam]

8 alive (6 town), 5 to lynch on D4.  A loved scum means 6 to lynch.  No lynch means...

7 alive (5 town), 4 to lynch on D5.  A loved scum means 5 to lynch.  No lynch means loved scum auto-wins.  Mislynch means loved scum auto-wins.  So D5 is lylo for town if we no lynch today and scum is or gets loved.

Instead...8 alive (6 town), 5 to lynch on D4.  Mislynch means...
6 alive (4 town), 4 to lynch on D4.  A loved scum means 5 to lynch.  Scum auto-wins.

So, the risks are, if a scum is loved already, or can get it tonight, the game is over with a mislynch today.  A no lynch just pushes that scenario to tomorrow, but with one less mislynch option (unless scum no kills).

To me, while no lynch is "safe" it is just delaying the inevitable.

I agree but the lynch pool will be 1 smaller, we will have a reward and hopefully I can confirm my role.

[Witherweaver]

And my QT uses the word "other"

Right.  Here's a way to write it in your scum QT:

"The town defeated the monster and has been rewarded with Council.  You must post in this QT (link) tonight.  The others in the QT will be randomly selected from remaining players.  You may create aliases to post, using the names Alice and Bob."

And there is zero reason to think this is true, unless you're trying blindly to push for mislynches.

Just as much reason to think what you are claiming is true.  It's 100000000% unverified that you two are masons.  There is literally nothing to prove it.  It's just the word of two players.

I still have yet to see anyone posit reasoning for how Council was a town reward if all it was was this.

Three players.  We have Hydrad to verify everything we said in Council QT.  Even if you allow some uncertainty, it's got to be 90-95% certain that BA and I didn't plan anything.

Plus the fact that it makes no sense.

[ashersky]

This:

Ash, the other two were chosen randomly.  It said this  in our QTs

was a phone post in response to this:

This definitely points to BA/WW being Town. Why would it continue to be open? As soon as no one claims Alice or Bob the following day, the QT becomes useless because the other two players in the QT know they are talking to scum since they didn't claim to be Alice or Bob.

I don't know.  It could mean BA/WW is town and the other to are scum.  Except IG died and flipped town, so that's not it.  That still leaves BA/WW are scum and Ichi/Hydrad are town as options.

Scum teams claiming masons is a thing.  It's not unheard of.  It works well if they are believed.

The reason for me posting this is to show that the Council setup is independent of alignment of IG/Hydrad.  Obviously it couldn't just be four random players, because there would be no guarantee scum would be dead and you can't have Masons with one town.    My best educated guess is that Jimmm randomly chose two remaining town players to make Masons, and then randomly chose two more players from everyone else left alive to be in the QT. 

This is also the most obvious thing, and almost entirely confirmed.

Wasn't IG in the QT before he died?  I don't understand your argument here.

Jimmmmm could roll for 4 random players.  He is guaranteed, GUARANTEED to have two town in that random roll, as there are only two scum left.  So yes, IT could be four random players.

[Witherweaver]

Jimmm would have decided rewards before starting the game, I'm sure.

[Witherweaver]

Unless you think Jimm is psychic you're being purposefully obtuse.

[ashersky]

And my QT uses the word "other"

Right.  Here's a way to write it in your scum QT:

"The town defeated the monster and has been rewarded with Council.  You must post in this QT (link) tonight.  The others in the QT will be randomly selected from remaining players.  You may create aliases to post, using the names Alice and Bob."

And there is zero reason to think this is true, unless you're trying blindly to push for mislynches.

Just as much reason to think what you are claiming is true.  It's 100000000% unverified that you two are masons.  There is literally nothing to prove it.  It's just the word of two players.

I still have yet to see anyone posit reasoning for how Council was a town reward if all it was was this.

Three players.  We have Hydrad to verify everything we said in Council QT.  Even if you allow some uncertainty, it's got to be 90-95% certain that BA and I didn't plan anything.

Plus the fact that it makes no sense.

I'm not arguing that the QT doesn't exist.  It clearly does.  It's entirely possible and easy to post in two QTs at the same time, formulating plans.  Go read Modern Community and see what Robz did as Mentor, going back and forth between the mafia and mentor QTs.

[ashersky]

Jimmm would have decided rewards before starting the game, I'm sure.

I'm pretty sure he has a pool of rewards to randomly choose from.  Even if he doesn't, if there were more scum than town (the situation where a random role can't return 2 town to join council), scum has already won, dude.

So now who's obtuse?

[liopoil]

Yes, here are my priorities today:

1st choice - Lynch pps
2nd choice - No lynch
3rd choice - lynch somebody else

Why are you resigned to the "if BA/WW are lying, they deserve to win" mentality?

I'm not. I will highly consider lynching them if we mislynch. If one is loved (not too likely, right?) then okay, they win if we mislynch. But really, they just aren't scum because pps is, and ash/arch are scummy. And because of hydrad confirming stuff that happened in the council QT.

[Witherweaver]

Did you read Hydrad's post about how we interacted in the QT?

[ashersky]

The only time a random roll of 4 players isn't guaranteed to return at least two town is when all three scum are alive.  Maybe the size of the Council is determined by size of player pool (50% rounded down, for example).

It's obviously possible he rolled two random townies to be masons then two random players to be neighbors with them.  I'm saying you cannot be sure that happened, but you continue to act like you are.  I am then arguing that since you are making that argument, it's actually because you and BA have been partners the entire time, so you aren't separating yourself like you should have to begin with.

[Witherweaver]

Jimmm would have decided rewards before starting the game, I'm sure.

I'm pretty sure he has a pool of rewards to randomly choose from.  Even if he doesn't, if there were more scum than town (the situation where a random role can't return 2 town to join council), scum has already won, dude.

So now who's obtuse?

If there are three scum alive and he chooses four people randomly then it's possible to not have two town. 

[Witherweaver]

Oh, and it's you, to answer your question.

[ashersky]

Did you read Hydrad's post about how we interacted in the QT?

I did.  I also read how you stated you didn't get to the QT until way after it opened.  If you are scum, you go to the QT website and you absolutely read your scum QT first, to see what BA has said and tells you to say in the Council QT.