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[Hydrad]

well then I have no real theorys except that maybe asher lied to try and make it seem like someone targeted him to make him seem towny?

Either way if asher isn't scum this game will make very little sense. I would say WW/BA are the only other ones I can think of that might be a scum team. And if he isn't scum that means either he lied for no reason/ somehow there is 3 dice stealers/ faust is lying...

the faust is lying doesn't really make sense unless its somehow a PPS/faust team which seems so improbable.

Anyways I guess I'll have time to think of that tomorrow if I somehow survive the night.

[Beyond Awesome]

Okay, so I have been thinking about the Ogre attack, and I see three possibilities

1) Faust is right and the Ogre stole from someone
2) The Ogre attack fails because Hydrad and I used stored dice
3) We have not yet seen what the Ogre attack does because scum is waiting to use its ability

[Hydrad]

Personally I feel like its 3)

[faust]

BA, do you agree to target WW tonight?

[pingpongsam]

I did not steal nor could I be stolen from. My stored die is not a 1 or a 2 since it was not possible for me to roll that yesterday. It is however a decent die for the other monsters. I shan't be playing my die today.

I think it is a good possibility that the ogre effects have not been seen because both plays were stored dice.

Other than the chairs effect my rolls seemed normal and even favorable yesterday.

[Witherweaver]

All I know is I stole from PPS and nothing happened.

So you gave PPS dice, and then you stole them?

[faust]

All I know is I stole from PPS and nothing happened.

So you gave PPS dice, and then you stole them?

Well, I tried to. Obviously I didn't succeed.

[Witherweaver]

Okay, so one of {Faust, Ash, Hydrad} is scum?

So, 8 alive, 2 scum.  Faust gets his wish and lynches me today, I flip town, BA is confirmed town.  Night kill, 6 alive, 2 scum.  Now this is MyLo.  Who would scum!Faust try to mislynch here? Whoever in {Ash, PPS, Lio} isn't his partner I guess.  Is this a good scum strategy?  Maybe.  A stronger one, I think, would to argue for the mislynch out of {Ash, PPS, Lio, Hydrad, Archetype} today and then try to mislynch me/BA for the win. 

I think scum!Faust would know we're telling the truth and not argue against us so much.  Though the "okay we'll lynch Ash but if he's town definitely lynch WW/BA" thing is worrysome, basically trying to set up the two mislynches needed to win.

So now.. Hydrad is the only unconfirmed player that knew Ichi was in the council.  Does scum see an advantage to killing Ichi because of the council?  Maybe they thought it would be a lot harder to push for mislynching me and BA with two players verifying what was said in the council.  But Hydrad has been saying BA and I are believable, and his attitude towards BA and myself sounds more genuine than faked.. for this to be reasonable it would have to be BA/Faust with BA arguing for us as town and Faust arguing for us as scum.  I'm having trouble seeing this as a very reasonable strategy. 

Ichi was a self-proclaimed IC, and wasn't getting a lot of suspicion, so that could explain the kill easily enough.

Ash has just been all kinds of suspicious.. hammering Volt being among the top things.  He'd still be my pick within {Ash, Hydrad, Faust}. Then again, it's silly for scum!Ash to lie now and create a 1-1 type of thing (or 1-1-1 type of thing).  Scum!Ash would know Hydrad was the target of the attack, and he'd have to know that it would be {Ash, Hydrad, Faust} and he'd be the most suspicious.  Maybe he thought he was screwed so he had to try something. 

Ash also had little or nothing to say about BA and I being Town, so that's suspicious.

My preference in the set is Ash > Faust > Hydrad.

[Witherweaver]

All I know is I stole from PPS and nothing happened.

So you gave PPS dice, and then you stole them?

Well, I tried to. Obviously I didn't succeed.

So the obvious implied question is why did you give him dice just to try to steal them back later? 

[faust]

Okay, so one of {Faust, Ash, Hydrad} is scum?

How do you jump to that conclusion?

[faust]

All I know is I stole from PPS and nothing happened.

So you gave PPS dice, and then you stole them?

Well, I tried to. Obviously I didn't succeed.

So the obvious implied question is why did you give him dice just to try to steal them back later?

You will see that I argued for checking PPS' story by trying to steal from him earlier. Well, when I got the role, I saw that stealing has some negative effect if I don't succeed. So PPS needed to have some dice before I could safely target him.

[Witherweaver]

Okay, so one of {Faust, Ash, Hydrad} is scum?

How do you jump to that conclusion?

I consider the case where the monster attacks during the night and depletes someone's supply without it being announced to us not a likely enough scenario.

What's the other option?

[Witherweaver]

All I know is I stole from PPS and nothing happened.

So you gave PPS dice, and then you stole them?

Well, I tried to. Obviously I didn't succeed.

So the obvious implied question is why did you give him dice just to try to steal them back later?

You will see that I argued for checking PPS' story by trying to steal from him earlier. Well, when I got the role, I saw that stealing has some negative effect if I don't succeed. So PPS needed to have some dice before I could safely target him.

Okay, so.. say PPS has zero dice, you give PPS dice, he doesn't use them all.. you steal some dice... what does this verify?  How is this distinguishable from PPS not starting with zero dice?

[Witherweaver]

Also, how is this distinguishable from PPS lying about his Day 1 attack but still using all his dice yesterday?

[ashersky]

Remember how everybody and their moms (except me) had huge town reads on Faust?  And I kept asking why?  And no one answered satisfactorily?

If he was so town for so long, why is he not dead?

[ashersky]

I never claimed my dice were "stolen."  I claimed that someone targeted me last night and now I have no dice.

[ashersky]

For council to be useful to town or harmful to mafia, it couldn't just be a one night neighborhood.

[ashersky]

For council to be useful to town or harmful to mafia, it couldn't just be a one night neighborhood.

So theoretically masons inside makes some sense.

Could the QT do anything?

[Hydrad]

For council to be useful to town or harmful to mafia, it couldn't just be a one night neighborhood.

So theoretically masons inside makes some sense.

Could the QT do anything?

I did not get some sort of ability to use from the QT. maybe BA and WW did but they didn't discuss about getting an extra power or anything

[faust]

Okay, so one of {Faust, Ash, Hydrad} is scum?

How do you jump to that conclusion?

I consider the case where the monster attacks during the night and depletes someone's supply without it being announced to us not a likely enough scenario.

What's the other option?

Then what's your more likely scenario? Scum!ash is lying, and it brings him no benefit at all, but only more suspicion, when he could just have stayed quiet? Scum!me is lying without any reason at all? Scum!Hydrad is lying, which again does nothing for him, but instead makes him more suspicious?

Sorry, but I cannot see how you would assume any of these scenarios as likely.

[faust]

Okay, so.. say PPS has zero dice, you give PPS dice, he doesn't use them all.. you steal some dice... what does this verify?  How is this distinguishable from PPS not starting with zero dice?

If I had received more dice than I gave him, I would have known he was lying.

[Beyond Awesome]

For council to be useful to town or harmful to mafia, it couldn't just be a one night neighborhood.

What makes you think that it wouldn't be a one night deal?

Also, I just thought of something. I think Faust is telling the truth. If he targeted PPS and got nothing back then that sounds actually realistic. PPS could verify he had no dice. The only way that Faust would by lying in this case if he and PPS are partners and the plan was to lynch Ash today by framing him and then mislynch another player the next day.

So, that actually means we have only a couple of possibilities.
1) Either Hydrad or Ash are lying about being stolen from.
2) The Ogre attack stole from either Ash or Hydrad
3) Faust and PPS are scum partners and Faust lied about targeting PPS.

PPE 2

[faust]

Also, how is this distinguishable from PPS lying about his Day 1 attack but still using all his dice yesterday?

It's not. I'm not saying PPS is conf!town to me.

[Witherweaver]

Okay, so.. say PPS has zero dice, you give PPS dice, he doesn't use them all.. you steal some dice... what does this verify?  How is this distinguishable from PPS not starting with zero dice?

If I had received more dice than I gave him, I would have known he was lying.

How many did you give him?

[faust]

Remember how everybody and their moms (except me) had huge town reads on Faust?  And I kept asking why?  And no one answered satisfactorily?

If he was so town for so long, why is he not dead?

I couldn't be killed N1. N2, Xerxes was more townie than me. N3, BA and WW were afraid of Ichi seeing through their fakeclaim.