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[Witherweaver]

Yeah, my gut stopped talking to me about PPS some time after that.. I had also thought Faust was very town until yesterday, something had made me very uneasy.  Could have been OMGUS.

Lio and PPS could be mutually bussing in a last ditch effort to keep one alive.  But I think Ash is more likely to be on the team.

[ashersky]

If Faust is scum he deserves the win. If ash is town he deserves the loss and so do I.

No, Faust deserves to be lynched.

I'm fairly certain remaining scum are in lio/PPS/Faust.  Those are final reads.

Whomever targeted me last night...thanks.  I now have zero dice.

I'm a VT.

[Beyond Awesome]

How many dice did you lose?

[Hydrad]

I guess I should say how many I lost.

I lost 4 dice tonight.

[Beyond Awesome]

Okay, Ash how many dice did you lose?

And, Faust, how many dice did you gain?

[Beyond Awesome]

So, I have been doing some thinking. I still plan on doing a full reread, but we can confirm lio's, Archetype's and Fausts abilities.

Only PPS and Ash are the two that can't be confirmed. For sure, one of them has to be the "dice destroyer." I just don't see someone having two abilities in this game.

So, anyway, I think we have to lynch between the two of them. But, to be safe, I do plan on doing a thorough reread within the next couple of days.

[Beyond Awesome]

Okay, so I have started doing my reread, and I think Ash and PPS are partners. Also, I think I may have caught PPS in a lie. However, it is super late, and I am just glazing over D1 right now before going to bed. It will still be a while before I get the full reread compiled.

Anyway, regarding the PPS lie thing, PPS says this followed immediately by a comment from Ash

Oh yeah, I got an anti-town power.

?

Yeah, basically I am VT unless I have near certainty of scum at which point it will be largely too late to use the power. If I use my power on a townie it would be detrimental.

Here is Ash's immediate follow-up comment.

Oh yeah, I got an anti-town power.

?

Yeah, basically I am VT unless I have near certainty of scum at which point it will be largely too late to use the power. If I use my power on a townie it would be detrimental.

Would full claim get you killed?

Then, here is where PPS discusses what his role does. Also, remember that his role name is Swindler.

Yeah I am still down for Vote: yuma

His claim smacked of a lie off the bat. My role directly inserts an 8 sided die into a players supply and thus corresponds with BA's claim.

Wait, what? can you expand on that bit about your role?

It's fairly complicated and totally swingy. When I target a player they receive a 12 sided die. However, when any other player ( I assume the next one but no further after?) gains a die through any method it will be an 8 sided die without their knowledge. Their rolls will alternate between the 8 sided die and the 12 sided dies in their supply. Thus, having a role that detects how many sides are on dice directly relates to what my role does.

So, on D1, he says using his power on a townie would be detrimental, but then on D2, he says that the first player he targets, it is a good thing, but then the player who gains dice afterwards gets screwed. But, on D1 he says if he has near certainty of scum it is worth using. However, that can't be true because his power is "anti-town" which he does say that on D1 which means his power is pretty much never worth using. In other words, using his power on scum would only be good for scum and bad for town.

However, a large part of me really wants to believe he is not lying here. First, he comes to my defense when I claim my ability when people say it sounds made up, and he brings up how he has a role that can affect what values of dice someone can roll. PPS was also the first player to claim a role that affects the values other players can roll. So, that also makes me believe him to an extent.

Anyway, just an immediate observation I made.

[Beyond Awesome]

Oh, and we also have this exchange with PPS and Ash right when PPS announces his dice were swiped.

I just discovered that someone swiped half my supply of dice last night.

Ash's response

I just discovered that someone swiped half my supply of dice last night.

Points to you being town, with scum stealing your dice.

Or you (or your partner) has the dice-stealing scum power and you are preemptively claiming to have been robbed when you actually didn't use the power for yet even more cred.

Also, PPS saying he rolled well ahead and noticing his supply was swiped which never made sense to me that he rolled ahead or did no see his QT seeing that his dice were swiped. Also, as I understand in the rules, we can only roll up to 1 hour ahead, so Jimmmm should have said that PPS rolled or something. I don't know. I just don't see how you can roll ahead.

I rolled well ahead of realizing my supply was depleted. Nice theory though, maybe you can leverage it for my mislynch when I am actually out of dice while you do whatever you please with the ones you stole?

[Beyond Awesome]

Also, he seems to believe his dice were stolen. We know yuma/e was a thief. Could it be possible that scum also has a thief and not a destroyer? What made PPS believe that his dice were stolen and not destroyed?

[Beyond Awesome]

I rolled well ahead of realizing my supply was depleted. Nice theory though, maybe you can leverage it for my mislynch when I am actually out of dice while you do whatever you please with the ones you stole?

Was your supply depleted before or after your claim?

I do not follow the question. I am assuming my supply was depleted going into D1. When I posted the realization is when I realized it myself. Checking my QT now I see that my new supply number was proved at 4pm D1. I have yet to subscribe to my QT so I am not yet getting alerts to new posts in it. Now that I am looking at it again I see that my supply is now reduced further than the number of dice I rolled today. In fact, in full disclosure, N0 I had 9 dice, starting D1 I had 5 dice. I rolled 3 dice and I have 1 remaining die in my supply.

 Knowing my own power I suspect that I am the target of multiple N0 actions with 1 of them likely a Town action. I was extremely tempted to use my power N0 because it might have allowed me an advantage in determining a player's alignment. However, ultimately I could not reconcile wielding it on a likely town player.

I expect my reduced utility to the game at this point to mean I am the easy mislynch.

Going back and rereading, this entire post makes no sense to me.

[Beyond Awesome]

Anyway, sorry for all the posts. I only meant to make one, and then go to bed, but continued to do more skimming. I swear this is my last post. But, on a final note, PPS put chairs at L-1 and Ash hammered.

[faust]

I targeted PPS last night and received no dice. I'm not responsible for whatever happened with ashersky.

Receiving no dice from PPS makes me more certain of his townieness, because it means that he has no supply dice left and thus was telling the truth (probably).

[pingpongsam]

I targeted PPS last night and received no dice. I'm not responsible for whatever happened with ashersky.

Receiving no dice from PPS makes me more certain of his townieness, because it means that he has no supply dice left and thus was telling the truth (probably).

Correct, I rolled everything yesterday hoping to kill the witch and to store something useful for the possible monsters knowing I was screwed by chairs for the ogre. I have the best possible die from those results stored for the remaining monsters.

I have no response to hydrad because my answers are as clear as they could be when I made them and have been clarified as needed. There are no lies and reading lies into me is reaching hard.

[pingpongsam]

And by hydrad I mean BA.

[faust]

Faustus Aurelius Productions proudly presents:

Beyond Awesome and Witherweaver: A scum narrative

N0

Scum meets. WW has a dice destroying power and uses it on PPS, because hey, why not? BA might actually have a power similar to the one he claimed.

D1

BA and WW start the game with a nice little ping-ponging with WW asking questions and BA answering them. Then there's the rerolling, where the highest dice roll (from BA) doesn't get rerolled. Still mildly suspicious. #178 features WW fishing for Xerxes' role. #183, BA jumps a wagon on Ichi because he's "quiet" and rolled low. WW also hedging on Ichi. #223, WW uses the classical logical fallacy "I can't always be scum" to defend himself. BA posts his reads in #250: scum read on Voltaire for low roll, town read on WW for flavor reasons when it has been explicitly stated that flavor has no meaning for the game. That's the classical distribution for reads on scum partners: one scummy, one towny.

A long time not much notable. WW votes BA at some point, but doesn't really push this lynch. Then, in post #417, BA defends WW against my accusations. Then, #580 is another interesting reads post from BA. He calls Voltaire "a bit suspicious" and votes for him. He forgets to list WW. Overall, the most scummy Voltaire vote of the day.

In #609, WW states reads, says he finds BA the most scummy, and "doesn't see how this isn't town Volt". That's an especially strong read to have when Volt has done nothing that stands out. Casting suspicion on BA on the other hand is safe, noone else is really suspecting him.

N1

Not much to learn here. Box was a good taget: He claimed lots of dice, seemed townie, yet not enough for people to protect him. WW plans something to make BA look more townie and attacks him (or doesn't, and they just agree to tell this story).

D2

BA opens with a very fake-seeming post. WW states "my reads suck" immediately afterwards, trying to prevent suspicion because of his read on Voltaire and to protect BA. #704 is the classic "I understand why you are voting for me" scumtell. There's also the thing where BA knows that mail-mi was attacked, which I overlooked. WW was very reluctant to answer whether or not he targeted me N1, as is BA. Are they afraid I might find something out?

Throughout the day, BA continues to have an inexplicable town read on WW. In #1001, WW joins the e wagon pretty much without reasoning and giving up his strong scum read on BA rather easily. Post #1082 is BA again defending WW, continuing in a very fishy defense in #1086. When I call WW out for not being on the VOltaire wagon, he cites his scum meta to show that he's usually bussing, which is a bad defense also. Post #1172 is also very telling, hey, I'll even link it.

In #1384, WW says he gets a "huge scumread" on BA, but leaves his vote on PPS. Then, BA is afraid of a mislynch and claims his weird role. #1419 scummy again, with BA saying "I am not trying to get out of being lynched". Really? #1564, BA goes after the easy mislynch chairs, without much of a case at all. Post #1603, #1604 are again interesting BA - WW interaction. In #1610, WW is suddenly okay with lyching e. Why? BA hammers shortly thereafter. (Doesn't really... but they think he does) Supremely scummy.

N2

This is probably where WW makes up his fakeclaim. The Xerxes NK is obvious.

D3

WW's claim:

Okay, looks like there are no dissenters to mass claiming.  I'll go ahead and start

I am a Town X-Shot Saboteur.  I can reveal what X is, but not sure if I should.  I have not used any shots.  This is what my power does:

During the night, I may name a single player, and that player is unable to roll any of the three highest-scoring values.  I can only name one player per night (i.e., I can only use one shot a night). 

Moreover, if I die, then for each shot I have remaining, a random player will be Sabotaged (effect above) on each of the following two days. 

I read this as, if I have X shots left and die tonight, then tomorrow X random players get Sabotaged, and the next day X random players get Sabotaged again.

This is why I didn't want to claim my roll before.. I saw this as largely anti-town, because in most cases we want high rolls.  If I'm night killed, then the effect seems pretty bad for us.  I did not use any shots because there was no reason to believe we wouldn't want high rolls, and even if I had a strong scum read on someone, we still want them to play high.

However, this effect is a boon for these monsters:

OGRE - Only 1s and 2s count.

GOBLIN - Even numbers count as negative.

For those of us that can roll up to 12, my effect takes away 10,11, and 12 as possibilities, so two evens and one odd. (In fact, probably true for anyone, because the highest value is probably even.)  For Ogres, the chance to get 1 or 2 is reduced from 2/12 to 2/9.  So at this point it could help.  This is also why I asked yesterday if anyone had the ability to see what monsters are coming up, so I'd know if I should use my power or not.

The only night actions I've taken were to target Faust with the medical thing on Night 1 and Faust again with the treasure thing on Night 2.

I don't know if we're doing full die claiming, so I won't do that, but as I said before, I lost four dice from my Supply last night.  Nothing happened to me on the previous nights.

I already mentioned how this is a scummy claim: No confirmable actions yet, potentially helpful later, penalty for getting lynched. What add to this is that the role is very similar to chairs' role, but strictly worse for town. I don't think Jimmmmm would include two roles of this kind. Post #1975 reads like: "I made up such an awesome role, why don't you believe me?"

It's also very very much notable how WW screamed "lynch BA next!!!" on D2 and apparently completely forgot about his intentions on D3. How does that happen? In #2131, BA puts chairs at L-1 (wasn't actually, but he thought it was) after he stated he was going to self-hammer. Also very scummy.

N3

Now things get really juicy. WW and BA are being pulled into the Council, under fake names. They decide to use that as an advantage and claim Masons. I will say here that this makes no sense. If the reward was to give us Masons, what was the rest of the Council all about? I don't think Jimmmmm would just add such an unneccessary thing to a reward that is otherwise pretty straightforward. Two, why wouldn't they claim their names? Doing so would maybe kill one of them, but then they know there's scum among Hydrad/Ichi, which seems a good bargain. Three, WW and BA, really? What are the odds for two players that are so scummy to be chosen as Masons?

WW then claims to target BA, which is good because it takes him one day further without having to be confirmed, and the next day is already MyLo. Him targeting BA is town doesn't make sense. BA is confirmed town, shouldn't he be targeting the player who are scum to make it more likely that they have to contribute? Also, it was clear that BA was low on dice. No, that night action doesn't make any sense.

That's pretty much it. The scumminess of the two becomes ever more apparent going on.

[pingpongsam]

It could happen. Where is the ashersky that plays the game? He's been like a sulky teenager the whole game.

[ashersky]

It could happen. Where is the ashersky that plays the game? He's been like a sulky teenager the whole game.

Check the VLA thread.

[liopoil]

Beyond Awesome and Witherweaver: A scum narrative

Okay faust, you certainly have a point, and I will consider it... should we get to lylo with them both still alive and we haven't lynched a second scum yet. In the meantime, you have to get that out of your head and assume they aren't scum.

In response to BA: a pps-ash team is certainly possible, in fact it is from my perspective that it should be the most possible, but their interactions are a bit weird for that. Although, it is pps and ashersky after all... I will certainly consider that. But an arch-pps or arch-ash team also seems highly possible, and I'd like people to consider that more.

[pingpongsam]

Beyond Awesome and Witherweaver: A scum narrative

Okay faust, you certainly have a point, and I will consider it... should we get to lylo with them both still alive and we haven't lynched a second scum yet. In the meantime, you have to get that out of your head and assume they aren't scum.

In response to BA: a pps-ash team is certainly possible, in fact it is from my perspective that it should be the most possible, but their interactions are a bit weird for that. Although, it is pps and ashersky after all... I will certainly consider that. But an arch-pps or arch-ash team also seems highly possible, and I'd like people to consider that more.

Common thread here is ashersky. Also, if he flips town it boils down to me or you.

[liopoil]

How is ash a common thread more than you are?

[pingpongsam]

How is ash a common thread more than you are?

Fair point.

[faust]

Beyond Awesome and Witherweaver: A scum narrative

Okay faust, you certainly have a point, and I will consider it... should we get to lylo with them both still alive and we haven't lynched a second scum yet. In the meantime, you have to get that out of your head and assume they aren't scum.

In response to BA: a pps-ash team is certainly possible, in fact it is from my perspective that it should be the most possible, but their interactions are a bit weird for that. Although, it is pps and ashersky after all... I will certainly consider that. But an arch-pps or arch-ash team also seems highly possible, and I'd like people to consider that more.

Yeah, well, thing is, there is only one player other than WW and BA that I think has a decent chance of being scum, and that's ashersky. Only he can't be scum alone, so it gets back to WW/BA. Why should we not lynch one of them today? What makes lynching among you/Arch/PPS/ash so much better?

[liopoil]

Beyond Awesome and Witherweaver: A scum narrative

Okay faust, you certainly have a point, and I will consider it... should we get to lylo with them both still alive and we haven't lynched a second scum yet. In the meantime, you have to get that out of your head and assume they aren't scum.

In response to BA: a pps-ash team is certainly possible, in fact it is from my perspective that it should be the most possible, but their interactions are a bit weird for that. Although, it is pps and ashersky after all... I will certainly consider that. But an arch-pps or arch-ash team also seems highly possible, and I'd like people to consider that more.

Yeah, well, thing is, there is only one player other than WW and BA that I think has a decent chance of being scum, and that's ashersky. Only he can't be scum alone, so it gets back to WW/BA. Why should we not lynch one of them today? What makes lynching among you/Arch/PPS/ash so much better?

What makes it better is that:

-if we ever do decide to lynch one of WW/BA and they are scum, we win
-if they are town there is a non-zero chance one of them dies or we get other new information before we lynch them.

Also, you really have that much of a townread on arch, pps, and me?

[faust]

So summary:

liopoil deals out dice, and he has done that in a very pro-town way. He's also not going after BA/WW, which I think scum!him would need to do in order to win.

Arch/previously mail-mi has played a generally pro-town game, I don't see what incriminates him. The way mail-mi approached his role D1 is unlikely to come from scum!him I think.

PPS has apparently always told the truth about his dice situation, why would scum steal from themselves D1? It only made PPS a better lynch target. He used all his dice in a very pro-town way. I get a town vibe from his posts.

ash is so strange this game, I think scum!him would be more involved. The VT claim makes little sense as scum, it's ash though, so who knows?

So who is left, really? We can end this game with a win right now, why stretch it out?

[faust]

What makes it better is that:

-if we ever do decide to lynch one of WW/BA and they are scum, we win
-if they are town there is a non-zero chance one of them dies or we get other new information before we lynch them.

Also, you really have that much of a townread on arch, pps, and me?

We won't get new information, scum will kill me or Hydrad tonight, pretty certain about that. And yeah, if we lynch them and they flip scum, we win. I want to win, sooner rather than later.