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Author Topic: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Town wins!)  (Read 547669 times)

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Witherweaver

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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1550 on: July 07, 2014, 12:34:34 am »

Why does Chairs keep coming up?  Does anyone have an actual case against him?
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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1551 on: July 07, 2014, 12:38:43 am »

Why does Chairs keep coming up?  Does anyone have an actual case against him?

Yes, he was super lurky even before he was vla.
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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1552 on: July 07, 2014, 12:39:52 am »

He is also one of the 3 out of 4 players that are on my wagon, but were not on Volt's. It's not much, but it is something.
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ashersky

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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1553 on: July 07, 2014, 12:41:56 am »

Okay, assuming that you are town Ash, what is your opinion of chairs? Do you feel he should be lynched? If not, why?

Chairs is middle-of-the-road for me.  Too lurky, doesn't stick out in my mind at all.  Basically a good place for scum to sit.

Why is no one interested in liopoil?
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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1554 on: July 07, 2014, 01:05:42 am »

Okay, assuming that you are town Ash, what is your opinion of chairs? Do you feel he should be lynched? If not, why?

Chairs is middle-of-the-road for me.  Too lurky, doesn't stick out in my mind at all.  Basically a good place for scum to sit.

Why is no one interested in liopoil?

I am doing a reread on lio right now.
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XerxesPraelor

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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1555 on: July 07, 2014, 01:18:51 am »

I reiterate, just because you say someone is scummy does not make it so.
Policy vote: PPS

Also, Hydrad is acting like BA's scumpartner.
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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1556 on: July 07, 2014, 01:38:10 am »

What's the actual "case" on BA?

I think his claim is scummy and quite possibly fake, so I can see lynching him for that.  I don't see what the big deal was before that.

I think liopoil is obv!scum, hydrad scumslipped into scum, and BA fakeclaimed himself as scum.  I think PPS has been super scummy in defense of scummy players.  Obviously that can't all be right, and town sometimes seems scummy, of course, but those are pretty strong reads.

I've felt BA has been pretty normal newbie for most of this game, until he claimed without pressure with a really crappy fake role.

Nothing about e? What do you think about e?
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faust

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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1557 on: July 07, 2014, 01:39:05 am »

Okay, assuming that you are town Ash, what is your opinion of chairs? Do you feel he should be lynched? If not, why?

Chairs is middle-of-the-road for me.  Too lurky, doesn't stick out in my mind at all.  Basically a good place for scum to sit.

Why is no one interested in liopoil?

liopoil is unlikely to be scum, and if he is, we want to lynch his partner first.
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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1558 on: July 07, 2014, 01:43:06 am »

ashersky sounds really off this game, but I'm not sure that makes him scum. And since there is no actual case against him, I prefer e.
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ashersky

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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1559 on: July 07, 2014, 01:56:37 am »

What's the actual "case" on BA?

I think his claim is scummy and quite possibly fake, so I can see lynching him for that.  I don't see what the big deal was before that.

I think liopoil is obv!scum, hydrad scumslipped into scum, and BA fakeclaimed himself as scum.  I think PPS has been super scummy in defense of scummy players.  Obviously that can't all be right, and town sometimes seems scummy, of course, but those are pretty strong reads.

I've felt BA has been pretty normal newbie for most of this game, until he claimed without pressure with a really crappy fake role.

I had a townish read on yuma, I think.  I don't really recall.  This long weekend really threw off the pace of the game for me.  I suppose I can do a quick yuma re-read.

Nothing about e? What do you think about e?
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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1560 on: July 07, 2014, 01:56:51 am »

What's the actual "case" on BA?

I think his claim is scummy and quite possibly fake, so I can see lynching him for that.  I don't see what the big deal was before that.

I think liopoil is obv!scum, hydrad scumslipped into scum, and BA fakeclaimed himself as scum.  I think PPS has been super scummy in defense of scummy players.  Obviously that can't all be right, and town sometimes seems scummy, of course, but those are pretty strong reads.

I've felt BA has been pretty normal newbie for most of this game, until he claimed without pressure with a really crappy fake role.

Nothing about e? What do you think about e?


I had a townish read on yuma, I think.  I don't really recall.  This long weekend really threw off the pace of the game for me.  I suppose I can do a quick yuma re-read.
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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1561 on: July 07, 2014, 02:54:29 am »

Re-read yuma.  Towny.
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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1562 on: July 07, 2014, 02:58:55 am »

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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1563 on: July 07, 2014, 03:41:11 am »

Re-read yuma.  Towny.

Reasons?

Argued for mass claim early.  That's a town Yuma thing.  His catch up post read well.  Little interaction with Volt -- which I think scum!yuma would normally avoid.

He's prone to gambits in RMM.  I saw none of that here.  I think scum!yuma claims something early instead of advocating for a mass claim, especially given his recent town history.
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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1564 on: July 07, 2014, 04:10:28 am »

Okay, so I have done a full re-read which took me a few hours!!! Whew!

chairs is the master lurker. He rarely seems to say anything, but on post 348, he claims he is very intrigued and thinks that I am scum and that I can't use the reroll power on myself and only rolled one die getting a 12. He also claims he is trying to decide if either I or Ichi are better lynch candidates in a very opportunistic manner. He also states concerns over yuma and votes and then unvotes yuma. On post 655 he says that he doesn't get why there is a wagon on Volt. Ironically, on D2, he plays a 1!

On post 903 chairs votes for me without giving reason. Then, on post 909 he analyzes my wagon and says "let's assume at least one is mafia" Of course, he claims to be town. He states Hydrad is null and the other two are town which was XP and WW at the time. On post 925 chairs says he is against claiming.

Okay guys, based off all of this, I am pretty certain chairs is scum. Top lynch candidate.

****

Ash opens the game playing a 9 with no explanation. Ash is the first one to cast suspicion onto PPS for having his dice stolen on post 97 claiming that it could have been a ploy by scum mates. Ash is also the first player to cast suspicion on mail-mi for not rolling and pushes for him to be lynched D1. On post 542 Ash claims that he is voting for lio because he thinks volt is partner coaching him. But, I am not sure what Ash is talking about here. Then, on post 546, he accuses liopoli of having a calm and collected post which he states makes lio look like scum after lio states he feels like Volt is pushing for a lynch against him. Then, lio claims that he finds volts low roll scummier than Ichi's and Ash votes for lio. Then, on post 667, Ash surprise hammers Volt.

On post 701 on D2 after my dice are stolen, Ash comes out and votes for me saying that I am scum. On post 919, PPS is against mass claiming today but suggests it tomorrow and also shows some confidence that Ash is likely scum.  On post 923, Ash comes out and says PPS and lio are the scum team and says what PPS is doing is what scum PPS does. On post 927, Ash says he never thought I was scum but voted for me to see who would be on my wagon. He says this of course after my wagon had died down. On post 940 Ash claims to have quickhammered volt to see what happened. Ash says he expected scum to play up Ash would quickhammer his partner. This is in response to PPS seeing him as scum and voting Ash. This is probably Ash's towniest post so far. 

On post 948, Ash says he finds nothing townie in PPS putting Volt at L-1 and that PPS had been avoiding Volt all day. On post 950, Ash claims that he usually pushes the mislynch as scum and usually succeeds. On post 988, Ash says he finds mail-mi's actions anti-town by not rolling D1 and also by getting attacked D2 and rolling as if mail-mi knew what would happen with the monster attack.

On post 1338, Ash votes Hydrad and later states the reason why is that Hydrad says beastmaster which must be a scum slip. On post 1364, Ash really pushes the beast master thing, convinced that Hydrad is scum. On post 1400, after I claim, Ash says my power sounds odd and made up. On post 1521, Ash says he is scum and that he is caught, obviously in a sarcastic manner, but still... 1523, Ash says he feels that I have been behaving like a newbie to mafia except that he thinks I claimed a fake roll.

My overall impression is that Ash can be pretty erratic, but there is a level of townness to the way he plays. There is a chance he is scum, but not as strong as I believed before.

*****

For lio, he doesn't say anything to really give me a reading on him one way or another. D1 Volt votes for him randomly it seems and claims he tried to stop XP from becoming a town consensuses. Then, yuma follows up with a vote against lio. Then, on post 354 volt states "Better than spending time on IG right now would be spending time on Box, lio, or BA." On post 398, lio asks for more info about Mail-Mi's dice power that might help a thief. On post 531, lio states that in terms of low rollers he finds Volt scummier than Ichi and then ASH votes for lio right after. A couple of posts later Volt says he likes lio and Ichi for lynch candidates.

Then, in post 545 lio claims that he feels like Volt is pushing for a lynch to see if there is any interest. In the post after, Ash calls lios post super scummy and too calm and collected. After that, more people vote for lio and lio shows his frustration that people are voting for him without giving any reasons. On post 598, lio seems to oppose the idea of a mass claim.

On post 954 lio agrees with Ash that the way PPS put Volt at L-1 is null at best. On post 961, lio votes PPS and offers a lengthy discussion as to why he finds him scummy. On post 974, lio asks faust to confirm that he was the one to target faust, but asks that faust not say what lio's ability is. On post 1132, lio suggests after the monster is defeated that maybe other players should roll as well just in case scum tries something.

On post 1142, lio finds chairs 1 to be scummy. He also states PPS seems scummy. Mail-Mi, Ash, and me, he finds to be scummy, but to a lesser extent. On post 1283, he asks why aren't more people voting PPS. He also states faust has played pro-town this game. On post 1303, lio argues with Ichi giving reasons as to why he finds faust town. On post 1305, lio is pushing for more people to vote PPS. On post 1312, lio opposes a mass claim idea from Hydrad. On post 1434, lio says he finds my claim to be scummy and puts me at L-2.

Overall, I am finding lio townie.

*****

e/yuma doesn't seem to post anything to incriminating to start with D1 until post 505 when he proposes a mass claim, not just of roles, but also of how many dice people have, the dice values they have stored, and their roles. He wants all the info he can get his hands on. Then, on post 577 he switches his vote to PPS after PPS accuses Ash of scumbussing lio. But, on post 644, he makes a long, townish post. On post 956, he tells PPS that he is surprised that he is surprised that PPS has a town read on him rather than null. On post 960 yuma claims he is the thief and targeted Box. Box did have those dice go missing so it is very much possible this is what he did. On post 964, yuma shows more interest in mass claiming.

On post 1097, e analyzes Volt's wagon calling out all the players he finds towny. On post 1139, e presents his reading pretty much finding me scummy but everyone else pretty null or in some instances slightly scum.  On post 1165, e says he is going to roll just so he can store a die for a later date. On post 1197, e says he thinks it is likely that scum was on volt's wagon because of how quickly he got quick hammered, not giving scum enough time to unvote.

On post 1253, e does not want to go with faust's plan of stealing from PPS to confirm him town for various reasons. On post 1270, he tries to get some info on faust and better figure out his role and then votes faust his next post. On post 1335, e claims to do a reread of lio and can't find anything really scummy about him and continues his vote against me. On post 1352, e comes to Hydrads defense and says beast master sounds like a word hydrad made up and was likely not a scum slip. On post 1426, e comes to my defense after I claim and states that he sees how my role has the potential to be like a cop.

And, overall, I find e townie as well.

****

So, that really leaves us with one good lynch candidate for D2 and that's chairs.

So, again Vote: Chairs even though I was already voting for him.
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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1565 on: July 07, 2014, 04:38:47 am »

I would say the case against chairs is very strong. What is most damming are his actions on D2. First, he rolls the 1 which I think is him saying he gives up and then him saying that there is likely at least one scum on my early wagon that popped up after I told everyone I had my dice stolen. Then, there is the whole thing about him saying he doesn't get the volt wagon at all. Plus, it seems like he was trying to push for mislynches.

Then, there is his lurking.

Honestly, we have not seen one town-like thing from chairs this entire game. How is he not scum?
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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1566 on: July 07, 2014, 04:46:51 am »

Hrm.  As a townread of mine, that interests me.  There are currently 4 people on the BA wagon.  Let's assume at least 1 is Mafia.

chairs - I'm as Town as furniture can be.
Hydrad - Newbie Mafia? Newbie Town? Null read for me, other than a strong urge to request that he get off my lawn.  ;D
Witherweaver - Is literally always Mafia... so probably Town.
XerxesPraelor - I feel pretty strongly Town on this one.

Here is the post where chairs says we should assume that at least one person is mafia on my early D2 wagon.
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XerxesPraelor

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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1567 on: July 07, 2014, 07:29:37 am »

I would say the case against chairs is very strong. What is most damming are his actions on D2. First, he rolls the 1 which I think is him saying he gives up and then him saying that there is likely at least one scum on my early wagon that popped up after I told everyone I had my dice stolen. Then, there is the whole thing about him saying he doesn't get the volt wagon at all. Plus, it seems like he was trying to push for mislynches.

Then, there is his lurking.

Honestly, we have not seen one town-like thing from chairs this entire game. How is he not scum?

We wanted him to play the 1 - he's towny for playing it, not scummy.
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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1568 on: July 07, 2014, 09:07:42 am »

yeah, the 1 roll by chairs is a not scummy.  At that point he could only roll a 1,2, or 4.  I mean, rolling dice is a random thing.  I think it is pretty towny that he actually was able to play a die, scum might very well have tried to play off some bad luck that he missed all of those numbers.
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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1569 on: July 07, 2014, 09:09:54 am »

So, if the "Beasmaster" thing is a scumslip of someone's actual roles, why does Ash also argue that not having a Dominion card name for a role must be a lie as well?  Those two can't be compatible. 
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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1570 on: July 07, 2014, 09:16:55 am »

First, let me say that I like it when people put effort into their game and actually reread, even though it's long and tedious work.

Okay, so I have done a full re-read which took me a few hours!!! Whew!

chairs is the master lurker. He rarely seems to say anything, but on post 348, he claims he is very intrigued and thinks that I am scum and that I can't use the reroll power on myself and only rolled one die getting a 12. He also claims he is trying to decide if either I or Ichi are better lynch candidates in a very opportunistic manner. He also states concerns over yuma and votes and then unvotes yuma. On post 655 he says that he doesn't get why there is a wagon on Volt. Ironically, on D2, he plays a 1!

On post 903 chairs votes for me without giving reason. Then, on post 909 he analyzes my wagon and says "let's assume at least one is mafia" Of course, he claims to be town. He states Hydrad is null and the other two are town which was XP and WW at the time. On post 925 chairs says he is against claiming.

Okay guys, based off all of this, I am pretty certain chairs is scum. Top lynch candidate.

I don't quite understand. You're listing lots of things that chairs did, but you don't really say which of them are scummy and why. Sure, not being on the Voltaire wagon is slight indication for scum. Playing a 1 isn't, it was like the second best thing to play at this point in the game. Yes, he's lurking, but that's what he does regardless of alignment. And that's the whole case, or at least, I don't see what about the other things you list is scummy. So I'm wholly unconvinced by this case. Plus, chairs is like an easy person to jump for his recent VLA-ness.

Quote
Ash opens the game playing a 9 with no explanation. Ash is the first one to cast suspicion onto PPS for having his dice stolen on post 97 claiming that it could have been a ploy by scum mates. Ash is also the first player to cast suspicion on mail-mi for not rolling and pushes for him to be lynched D1. On post 542 Ash claims that he is voting for lio because he thinks volt is partner coaching him. But, I am not sure what Ash is talking about here. Then, on post 546, he accuses liopoli of having a calm and collected post which he states makes lio look like scum after lio states he feels like Volt is pushing for a lynch against him. Then, lio claims that he finds volts low roll scummier than Ichi's and Ash votes for lio. Then, on post 667, Ash surprise hammers Volt.

On post 701 on D2 after my dice are stolen, Ash comes out and votes for me saying that I am scum. On post 919, PPS is against mass claiming today but suggests it tomorrow and also shows some confidence that Ash is likely scum.  On post 923, Ash comes out and says PPS and lio are the scum team and says what PPS is doing is what scum PPS does. On post 927, Ash says he never thought I was scum but voted for me to see who would be on my wagon. He says this of course after my wagon had died down. On post 940 Ash claims to have quickhammered volt to see what happened. Ash says he expected scum to play up Ash would quickhammer his partner. This is in response to PPS seeing him as scum and voting Ash. This is probably Ash's towniest post so far. 

On post 948, Ash says he finds nothing townie in PPS putting Volt at L-1 and that PPS had been avoiding Volt all day. On post 950, Ash claims that he usually pushes the mislynch as scum and usually succeeds. On post 988, Ash says he finds mail-mi's actions anti-town by not rolling D1 and also by getting attacked D2 and rolling as if mail-mi knew what would happen with the monster attack.

On post 1338, Ash votes Hydrad and later states the reason why is that Hydrad says beastmaster which must be a scum slip. On post 1364, Ash really pushes the beast master thing, convinced that Hydrad is scum. On post 1400, after I claim, Ash says my power sounds odd and made up. On post 1521, Ash says he is scum and that he is caught, obviously in a sarcastic manner, but still... 1523, Ash says he feels that I have been behaving like a newbie to mafia except that he thinks I claimed a fake roll.

My overall impression is that Ash can be pretty erratic, but there is a level of townness to the way he plays. There is a chance he is scum, but not as strong as I believed before.

Again here, while I mostly agree with your read, it is hard for me to see where it comes from. There's only one thing you name as specifically towny, the rest is just description.

Quote
For lio, he doesn't say anything to really give me a reading on him one way or another. D1 Volt votes for him randomly it seems and claims he tried to stop XP from becoming a town consensuses. Then, yuma follows up with a vote against lio. Then, on post 354 volt states "Better than spending time on IG right now would be spending time on Box, lio, or BA." On post 398, lio asks for more info about Mail-Mi's dice power that might help a thief. On post 531, lio states that in terms of low rollers he finds Volt scummier than Ichi and then ASH votes for lio right after. A couple of posts later Volt says he likes lio and Ichi for lynch candidates.

Then, in post 545 lio claims that he feels like Volt is pushing for a lynch to see if there is any interest. In the post after, Ash calls lios post super scummy and too calm and collected. After that, more people vote for lio and lio shows his frustration that people are voting for him without giving any reasons. On post 598, lio seems to oppose the idea of a mass claim.

On post 954 lio agrees with Ash that the way PPS put Volt at L-1 is null at best. On post 961, lio votes PPS and offers a lengthy discussion as to why he finds him scummy. On post 974, lio asks faust to confirm that he was the one to target faust, but asks that faust not say what lio's ability is. On post 1132, lio suggests after the monster is defeated that maybe other players should roll as well just in case scum tries something.

On post 1142, lio finds chairs 1 to be scummy. He also states PPS seems scummy. Mail-Mi, Ash, and me, he finds to be scummy, but to a lesser extent. On post 1283, he asks why aren't more people voting PPS. He also states faust has played pro-town this game. On post 1303, lio argues with Ichi giving reasons as to why he finds faust town. On post 1305, lio is pushing for more people to vote PPS. On post 1312, lio opposes a mass claim idea from Hydrad. On post 1434, lio says he finds my claim to be scummy and puts me at L-2.

Overall, I am finding lio townie.

You open the post saying lio doesn't give you something to read him and end with a town read. I guess that's normal reread process, but it sounds a little strange.

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e/yuma doesn't seem to post anything to incriminating to start with D1 until post 505 when he proposes a mass claim, not just of roles, but also of how many dice people have, the dice values they have stored, and their roles. He wants all the info he can get his hands on. Then, on post 577 he switches his vote to PPS after PPS accuses Ash of scumbussing lio. But, on post 644, he makes a long, townish post. On post 956, he tells PPS that he is surprised that he is surprised that PPS has a town read on him rather than null. On post 960 yuma claims he is the thief and targeted Box. Box did have those dice go missing so it is very much possible this is what he did. On post 964, yuma shows more interest in mass claiming.

On post 1097, e analyzes Volt's wagon calling out all the players he finds towny. On post 1139, e presents his reading pretty much finding me scummy but everyone else pretty null or in some instances slightly scum.  On post 1165, e says he is going to roll just so he can store a die for a later date. On post 1197, e says he thinks it is likely that scum was on volt's wagon because of how quickly he got quick hammered, not giving scum enough time to unvote.

On post 1253, e does not want to go with faust's plan of stealing from PPS to confirm him town for various reasons no reasons at all. On post 1270, he tries to get some info on faust and better figure out his role so he knows if he's a good NK target and then votes faust his next post. On post 1335, e claims to do a reread of lio and can't find anything really scummy about him and continues his vote against me. On post 1352, e comes to Hydrads defense and says beast master sounds like a word hydrad made up and was likely not a scum slip. On post 1426, e comes to my defense after I claim and states that he sees how my role has the potential to be like a cop while ironically he completely ignored the potential of his own role before.

And, overall, I find e townie as well.

Made some fixes.

Seriously, I can understand that yuma seems townish to people. He's the kind of expert player who does that. But I can't really see how people can find e's posts townie.

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So, that really leaves us with one good lynch candidate for D2 and that's chairs.

So, again Vote: Chairs even though I was already voting for him.

What about all the other people? Why did you choose exactly these players for your reread?
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Witherweaver

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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1571 on: July 07, 2014, 09:18:22 am »

He is also one of the 3 out of 4 players that are on my wagon, but were not on Volt's. It's not much, but it is something.

That's motivation for you, I see, but the rest of us can't assume you're town.
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faust

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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1572 on: July 07, 2014, 09:18:32 am »

So, if the "Beasmaster" thing is a scumslip of someone's actual roles, why does Ash also argue that not having a Dominion card name for a role must be a lie as well?  Those two can't be compatible.

Good point. But of course there's also the fact that Priest isn't a Dominion card as well, so I'm guessing ash is just confused.
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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1573 on: July 07, 2014, 09:19:17 am »

He is also one of the 3 out of 4 players that are on my wagon, but were not on Volt's. It's not much, but it is something.

That's motivation for you, I see, but the rest of us can't assume you're town.

Aren't you suspicious of the company you're in though?
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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1574 on: July 07, 2014, 09:22:16 am »

So, if the "Beasmaster" thing is a scumslip of someone's actual roles, why does Ash also argue that not having a Dominion card name for a role must be a lie as well?  Those two can't be compatible.

I think the "dominion card" thing is actually not a thing.  although it may give us insight into what Ash's role name is, because he probably has a dominion card.  I think the only reason there is some overlap is because we are a town out on a quest to find the Loyalty Stone.  And since we are a town we have standard town jobs.

Thief, swindler, priest, arms inspector
I wouldn't be surprised to find more role names such as:
Innkeeper
Jester
Smithy
Scout
Ambassador
Cutpurse
herbalist
alchemist
Peddler
fortune teller
beggar
sage
hermit
doctor
butcher


So as you can see these Dominion cards could all very well be roles (some more likely than others) as they all would have some sort of job/function in an ordinary town.

PPE: 4
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