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Author Topic: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Town wins!)  (Read 548119 times)

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Witherweaver

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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1275 on: July 05, 2014, 01:32:25 pm »

I'm not sure that's a scummy trait for Faust, though.  I think he tends to ride someone a bit until he gets something to aid his decision making as town or scum.

I'm not entirely sure of this statement as I've mostly just seen him as scum. Maybe someone with a better sense of his meta can comment.  It could be scum Faust deciding no one is going to follow him, or  it could be town!Faust changing his mind.

I wonder, though, why didn't Ash jump on you for rolling low?  Seems like something he would be likely to do
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1276 on: July 05, 2014, 01:35:28 pm »

Yeah; vote: faust
Wait, I thought you had a good reason to think faust was town because of D1?

No theory related reason, just a town read for telling the truth and his reactions to what I did.

Also  we all thought scum stole his dice, which is not true if we believe Ichi.
How dare you question the IC?

JK.

On a more serious note, I have been suspicious of faust since D1, but no one really seemed interested at all in a case on him. Glad to see those opinions are changing.

I actually did find faust scummy but never said anything because of XP. I thought XP was able to prove faust was town. Guess not. Oh, and I love the points e makes. I have been wondering the same thing. Why is faust fishing for so much information?
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Witherweaver

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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1277 on: July 05, 2014, 01:36:18 pm »

Actually Ichi can you present this case with relevant quotes?
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EFHW

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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1278 on: July 05, 2014, 01:40:39 pm »

Vote Count 2.6.1

Beyond Awesome (2): chairs, 2.71828.....
chairs (2): mail-mi, Beyond Awesome
pingpongsam (2): Ichimaru Gin, liopoil
2.71828..... (1): faust
liopoil (1): ashersky
faust (1): XerxesPraelor

not voting (3): Witherweaver, pingpongsam, Hydrad


With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Evening begins on July 9 at 11pm forum time.
Day 1 ends on July 11 at 11pm forum time.

Target: 60
Score: 64
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EFHW

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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1279 on: July 05, 2014, 01:44:33 pm »

Vote Count 2.6.2

Sigh...


Beyond Awesome (1): chairs
chairs (2): mail-mi, Beyond Awesome
pingpongsam (1):  liopoil
2.71828..... (1): faust
liopoil (1): ashersky
faust (3): XerxesPraelor, 2.71828....., Ichimaru Gin

not voting (3): Witherweaver, pingpongsam, Hydrad


With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Evening begins on July 9 at 11pm forum time.
Day 1 ends on July 11 at 11pm forum time.

Target: 60
Score: 64
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liopoil

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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1280 on: July 05, 2014, 01:50:41 pm »

Why did you want to know if people targeted you N0 or N1?[/b]
I know why he wanted to know who targeted him N1 (after all, it was I who targeted him), and would rather he not answer this.
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Ichimaru Gin

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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1281 on: July 05, 2014, 02:02:01 pm »

Actually Ichi can you present this case with relevant quotes?

Early on, faust fights quite a bit with Ashersky. It feels a bit contrived.

Sorry. I know see that 6 wasn't a very good roll. I rolled only a couple dice, but 6 was the highest I had, and I had to play one.
So faust's assumption seems to not be taking a lot of things into account.

Also, how many dice did you roll exactly?

I'm back to vote: Ichimaru for now. The one thing we need to do is discourage bad dice rolls. And I think his reaction to being accused is scummy.
He pressures to to tell him how many dice I rolled, voting to add extra weight. He completely ignores my response and just says that he's feeling better about his vote on me.

#152 Asks me what I am afraid of, as if there are no PR's that can mess with dice or rolls. This feels kind of taunting. He also says it will help determine exactly how likely it is I am telling the truth. The logic here really fails because of course scum!me would just lie about how many dice I rolled.

#204 I kind of forgot just how much he twisted words in order to make me look scummy. Again, there is a huge difference between a statistic and an individual event. faust just seems like low roll = 100% scum here. Also, I expect this as exactly the sort of tactic that scum would take because it makes people focus on numbers rather than reads and interactions.

#392 He pressures mail-mi to roll. Exactly as would be expected by scum trying to weaken a town PR. He goes for more threats there too, basically saying people will die if they don't listen to him.

#488 So much WIFOM in this post. Basically shows how his mind is made up on me for evidence that is very thin and 100% WIFOM. Like coincidences don't happen or he never factors them into his reads. In light of how dice rolling works, this is pretty ludicrous.

Link to my first reread of faust http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=11174.msg393288#msg393288

#588 Damning evidence in my mind. faust thinks setting me up as a mislynch is still worth a shot and noticeably hedges on Voltaire in a very scum-partnerish way.

#657 Even better. This is the post I keep referencing where faust just drops my case and flips to Voltaire.The last posts from me just before faust posts this are as follows: A joke about lio's interaction with EFHW, interpreting WW's statement about people not making sense as directed to me, replying to PPS's irritation at me asking a clarifying question, posting some pretty obvious stuff about mail-mi's preferences to roll or not, me having a townread on WW.

This (technically #658 when he corrects a bolding mistake) was faust's last post of D1 before Ash hammered Voltaire.

Ok. Thinking about reading D2. I'll post this for now.

Also, I know my first reread of faust that I link to is flawed in some ways, but it still provides info on faust.


Ichimaru Gin

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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1282 on: July 05, 2014, 02:05:12 pm »

Also. Just look at the wording he chooses to use "discourage bad dice rolls"

We need to discourage people from having bad luck!!!

It would make more sense as discourage playing low dice. Seriously though, this gives incite into an obvious scum mentality.

liopoil

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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1283 on: July 05, 2014, 02:06:53 pm »

I don't buy it. Ichi, you're having a bit of tunnel vision and finding everything he does scummy. Faust has played very pro-town this game. Do I need to pull quotes, or are you guys (XerxesPraelor, 2.71828....., and Ichimaru Gin) going to see the light and snap out of it?

Also, why aren't more people voting for pps?
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XerxesPraelor

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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1284 on: July 05, 2014, 02:09:21 pm »

BTW, what Faust knows about the advisor comes from that he was visited, and part of the message he received was that the advisor was confirmed to be town-aligned. In fact, all these questions seem like trying to discover roles, so I'd be fine with vote: e except that I already did that.

I think Faust has in fact acted quite pro-town, so I'm somewhat hesitant about lynching him. But he does seem scummy and his lynch will give us lots of information.

PPE: 1
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Ichimaru Gin

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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1285 on: July 05, 2014, 02:11:58 pm »

I don't buy it. Ichi, you're having a bit of tunnel vision and finding everything he does scummy. Faust has played very pro-town this game. Do I need to pull quotes, or are you guys (XerxesPraelor, 2.71828....., and Ichimaru Gin) going to see the light and snap out of it?

Also, why aren't more people voting for pps?
What a joke. I haven't said or done much to find faust scummy in quite a while (pretty much this whole day).

Why don't you look at what I actually said and tell me what you think about him tunneling me all day for D1. His first post was literally to vote for me and he kept it up for the entire day.

Sure, go ahead and pull quotes. I'm sure faust has done some townie things, but what, there is not one thing in my post that you think is legitimate or could offer an opinion on? It's not like I make the best cases, but I have a problem with you choosing to ignore every single point as just "you have tunnel vision" which is an obviously untrue statement.

PPE: XP. faust has acted pro-town but he's also scummy?

Ichimaru Gin

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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1286 on: July 05, 2014, 02:14:13 pm »

Where are e and WW? I'm sure they'll at least have some useful things to say.

Witherweaver

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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1287 on: July 05, 2014, 02:22:43 pm »

"His flip will give us a lot of information" sounded like "he's a good mislynch" here
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liopoil

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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1288 on: July 05, 2014, 02:24:11 pm »

"His flip will give us a lot of information" sounded like "he's a good mislynch" here
And indeed, he would surely be a great mislynch for scum.

Ichi: I'm in the process of writing up a post, don't think I ignored you.
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Ichimaru Gin

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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1289 on: July 05, 2014, 02:26:15 pm »

"His flip will give us a lot of information" sounded like "he's a good mislynch" here
And indeed, he would surely be a great mislynch for scum.

Ichi: I'm in the process of writing up a post, don't think I ignored you.
K.

XP's post seems very contradictory to me.

Witherweaver

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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1290 on: July 05, 2014, 02:26:33 pm »

I have to check out the links where he switches from you to Volt, but I really don't feel strongly about your case. His argument for lynching low rollers was reasonable: even if it was just town getting bad luck, the policy discourages scum from playing low rolls.

  Also, asking all these questions seems like more work than it's worth for scum.
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Ichimaru Gin

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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1291 on: July 05, 2014, 02:28:36 pm »

I have to check out the links where he switches from you to Volt, but I really don't feel strongly about your case. His argument for lynching low rollers was reasonable: even if it was just town getting bad luck, the policy discourages scum from playing low rolls.

  Also, asking all these questions seems like more work than it's worth for scum.
Hmm. You asked me to make a case. I did my best. Understandable if you don't find it that compelling.

I find this interaction scummy however. I also feel you are overly simplifying faust's tack on low-rollers.

Witherweaver

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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1292 on: July 05, 2014, 02:29:53 pm »

Also Ichi, you were a top scum read of mine day 1 so I don't really find Faust going after you too suspicious.

 I'm still not over newbie scum vibe from BA, by the way.  Reminds me of DD's first scum game.
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Witherweaver

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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1293 on: July 05, 2014, 02:31:37 pm »

I know. I asked you to make it because I didn't see what you were talking about on my reread, so I wanted yo get specific links.  Still need to go back and read the posts you highlighted, that was just my first impression from reading your post.
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Ichimaru Gin

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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1294 on: July 05, 2014, 02:34:54 pm »

Also Ichi, you were a top scum read of mine day 1 so I don't really find Faust going after you too suspicious.

 I'm still not over newbie scum vibe from BA, by the way.  Reminds me of DD's first scum game.
Look. Though faust attacking me, who is confirmed town in some people's eyes now, is a component of the case on him, it is by no means the only thing.

Furthermore, now that I have semi-IC status, hopefully it is a little more apparent that faust's case on me was wrong.

After tunneling me the entire day, faust just ups and drops that case on me with one sentence. What convinced him to switch to Volt and drop the case he'd been working the entire day? When faust shows up, I want a better answer to that question.

PPE: 1

Witherweaver

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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 1 - PM me for Speccy QT)
« Reply #1295 on: July 05, 2014, 02:44:11 pm »

yuma looks like town, so that's good.

Ichi's most recent posts are also on the townier side.

How about vote: Voltaire? He just feels like scum. Will look at this in more detail after the weekend.

Oh yeah, that's L-2.

Okay.. this is where Faust switches to you.  I analyzed this post before.. I had trouble seeing it as coming from Volt's partner.. This is what I said about it before:

yuma looks like town, so that's good.

Ichi's most recent posts are also on the townier side.

How about vote: Voltaire? He just feels like scum. Will look at this in more detail after the weekend.

Oh yeah, that's L-2.

Faust here puts Volt at L-2.  Would he do this to his partner?  I'm pretty sure Faust is not a gambit-lynch-my-own-partner-for-town-points scum player, unless he's pretty certain his partner is caught (e.g., Xerxes in Innovation).  It didn't seem like Volt was caught at this point, at least from my point of view the lynch was far from being decided and there were quite a few candidates.  So, in this line of thinking, a scum Faust would only do this if he thought Volt was going to get out of this.

I find Faust less likely scum for this.  The only caveat would be "will look at this in more detail after the weekend"... setting up an out to say he changed his mind and unvote.. but very dangerous to do if Volt does get lynched and flips scum.  To me this vote looks scummy only in the case that Volt is town.
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Witherweaver

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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1296 on: July 05, 2014, 02:45:02 pm »

If Volt flipped town, then Faust dropping you and jumping to Volt looks very scummy.  But, Volt was scum, and you're arguing Faust was his partner.
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Ichimaru Gin

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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1297 on: July 05, 2014, 02:45:37 pm »

I think that's a good point. I also think Ash's quickhammer was a surprise to everyone.

PPE: 1

Witherweaver

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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1298 on: July 05, 2014, 02:48:39 pm »

I think that's a good point. I also think Ash's quickhammer was a surprise to everyone.

PPE: 1

But what is scum Faust's motivation to bus his partner here?  Out of all the L-2, L-1, hammer votes, Faust's seems the most town.
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Ichimaru Gin

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Re: RMM16: Dice Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #1299 on: July 05, 2014, 02:50:19 pm »

I think that's a good point. I also think Ash's quickhammer was a surprise to everyone.

PPE: 1

But what is scum Faust's motivation to bus his partner here?  Out of all the L-2, L-1, hammer votes, Faust's seems the most town.
I don't know faust's meta that well. I don't feel that he has played very pro-town this game, but you remind me of information that made me think he was townier earlier today.
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