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[liopoil]

With the way things are going, yuma's massclaim idea is looking more attractive.

Why? I don't really like the idea... I don't think it will help us.

Well if people keep bullheadedly pushing my lynch, I will at least claim, but it's going to suck.

...you only have 3 votes. I share your frustration that people are acting rashly, but there is plenty of time for things to turn around.

[Hydrad]

The way its going it doesn't look like we are going to get 8 people to agree to lynch someone. Unless a post comes out and someone seems super scummy.

[Ichimaru Gin]

With the way things are going, yuma's massclaim idea is looking more attractive.

Why? I don't really like the idea... I don't think it will help us.

Well if people keep bullheadedly pushing my lynch, I will at least claim, but it's going to suck.

...you only have 3 votes. I share your frustration that people are acting rashly, but there is plenty of time for things to turn around.

4 now with Volt I think, but I appreciate what you said.
As time goes on this game, I am getting very ticked at how people are choosing to play. If they don't turn out to be scum it's even worse.

[Hydrad]

The way its going it doesn't look like we are going to get 8 people to agree to lynch someone. Unless a post comes out and someone seems super scummy.

By this i meant for just today. I expect in other days we will have more people agreeing but at the moment it seems really split.

[Ichimaru Gin]

The way its going it doesn't look like we are going to get 8 people to agree to lynch someone. Unless a post comes out and someone seems super scummy.

By this i meant for just today. I expect in other days we will have more people agreeing but at the moment it seems really split.

Today as in a real day or D1 of the game?

[Hydrad]

The way its going it doesn't look like we are going to get 8 people to agree to lynch someone. Unless a post comes out and someone seems super scummy.

By this i meant for just today. I expect in other days we will have more people agreeing but at the moment it seems really split.

Today as in a real day or D1 of the game?

D1 of the game

[Beyond Awesome]

Chairs seems to be lurking. This actually kind of scares me. So far it seems he has drawn little attention to himself.

He had a lurker meta for a long time. But that seemed to have changed in some recent games I've played with him.


Also, why do you think XP is town? I mean, he had his early VT claim and stuff, but I'm not sure that I buy it.
I agree with his assessment that faust and I are both town though--but no one seems to have replied to a lot of his posts.

XP hasn't done anything that screams scum to me. He seems fairly engaged. And, for now, I also buy his claim in the beginning. Although, it could very well be a ruse to trick town. I have considered that possibility, but for now, I am putting him in the likely to be town category.

[Beyond Awesome]

With the way things are going, yuma's massclaim idea is looking more attractive.

Why? I don't really like the idea... I don't think it will help us.

Well if people keep bullheadedly pushing my lynch, I will at least claim, but it's going to suck.

...you only have 3 votes. I share your frustration that people are acting rashly, but there is plenty of time for things to turn around.

4 now with Volt I think, but I appreciate what you said.
As time goes on this game, I am getting very ticked at how people are choosing to play. If they don't turn out to be scum it's even worse.

I actually think you have two votes. My vote was changed to volt.

[Ichimaru Gin]

With the way things are going, yuma's massclaim idea is looking more attractive.

Why? I don't really like the idea... I don't think it will help us.

Well if people keep bullheadedly pushing my lynch, I will at least claim, but it's going to suck.

...you only have 3 votes. I share your frustration that people are acting rashly, but there is plenty of time for things to turn around.

4 now with Volt I think, but I appreciate what you said.
As time goes on this game, I am getting very ticked at how people are choosing to play. If they don't turn out to be scum it's even worse.

I actually think you have two votes. My vote was changed to volt.

Yeah you're right. I miscounted and just added Volt's vote to lio's estimation.

[Witherweaver]

BA seems a lot lot lot like first-time scum to me.  Especially with the most recent jump to Volt.

Ichi seems like he's jumping the gun on acting defensive.  He knows it's expected of him and he's referenced it here. (Something along the lines of a "you know I'm always defensive, why is this time different?" response.)  This I see as scummy (referencing your own meta as a defense), but he did the same thing as town in Greater Idea.   Also that one back in forth with Faust where he gave a preemptive "you're probably going to find me scummy for this" thing is somewhat of a scumtell to me.

On the other hand, I have a very tunneling mentality, so right now everything BA and Ichi say I see as scummy.  I have to actively make myself think about other people.

Nothing else has stood out to me.  Ash seems way way off with his reads to me.. I see nothing scummy about any of the people he's accusing, and I don't see his arguments as very good.  This makes me suspect him somewhat more.  He tunnels as both town and scum, so it's hard to tell there.. it kind of seems here like he's just looking for something to grab ahold of and tunnel on, though.  It's probably not the best idea to lynch him today (he's a great scum player, but he's also just a good player, so he's a big boon if he is town), so not my top choice.

I don't see how this isn't town Volt here.  In Greater Idea he stood out to me as quite not-town Volt.. it really seemed like he was fabricating his town play.  I don't see that here, he just seems like regular Volt.  He could have learned from that, but I can't imagine voting for him today.

PPS seems town enough.. Yuma I have no read on.  New people I can't tell.. Hydrad looks very questionable, but that could be new town as easy as new scum.. Box looks towny.  Lolipop I have to reread.. I didn't follow the arguments made against him, or the votes on him.  That big post that Ash said was super scummy seemed not scummy at all to me.

Xerxes, Mail-Mi, Faust I think are town.  If Mail-Mi is scum, his partner is CERTAINLY someone quite experienced and theory/strategy-driven and cerebral: Ash, Faust, Voltaire, possibly Yuma, but I don't think Yuma goes for those kind of gambits.  As I think Faust and Voltaire are town, and only have a slight scum inclination on Ash, I'm not too compelled by the scum!Mail-Mi scenario.

I'm still voting BA I think, and I'm a little bit stronger on him than Ichi, so I'm okay with that. 

PPE: 3

[Witherweaver]

Also, this was brought up but didn't get a lot of attention as far as I can recall:

In the last run, did any of the monster get changed from enough-points-to-kill to not-enough-points late in the day, as in not enough time for us to respond?  Were there any scum powers that were used during Evening?

I'm inclined to think scum can't continually do stuff to us.. they've already rerolled Faust and Xerxes (via a Troll attack).  I wonder how much more can be done in a single day.. but there is the concern that they reroll (or whatever else) someone right before Evening.  So we should either all be on at that time, or we should overkill the Troll with Mail-Mi.  I'm guessing no one is really going to go for the last option (except those that think Mail-Mi is scum).

[Witherweaver]

I had forgotten about Chairs this game in my last summary post.  I'm null there, slight town inclination for no good reason, except for somewhat genuine-feeling posts.

[Witherweaver]

vote: pps above posts are scummy... (how's that for an explanation?)

Awesome because you just elevated yourself to obvtown afaiac.

I don't get this.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Lolipop I have to reread.. I didn't follow the arguments made against him, or the votes on him.  That big post that Ash said was super scummy seemed not scummy at all to me.

You mean liopoil?

BA seems a lot lot lot like first-time scum to me.  Especially with the most recent jump to Volt.

Ichi seems like he's jumping the gun on acting defensive.  He knows it's expected of him and he's referenced it here. (Something along the lines of a "you know I'm always defensive, why is this time different?" response.)  This I see as scummy (referencing your own meta as a defense), but he did the same thing as town in Greater Idea.   Also that one back in forth with Faust where he gave a preemptive "you're probably going to find me scummy for this" thing is somewhat of a scumtell to me.

On the other hand, I have a very tunneling mentality, so right now everything BA and Ichi say I see as scummy.  I have to actively make myself think about other people.

This actually seems quite townie here. I don't really see scum!WW admitting to having a tunneling mentality. He gives some good analysis of my meta, which I appreciate him seeing that I self-referenced in exactly the same way as town in Greater Idea. Sure, it seems like a bad idea as of course I'll probably use the same reasoning as scum (whenever I get to be scum again, instead of town like 7 games in a row), but that's something.

[liopoil]

BA seems a lot lot lot like first-time scum to me.  Especially with the most recent jump to Volt.

Ichi seems like he's jumping the gun on acting defensive.  He knows it's expected of him and he's referenced it here. (Something along the lines of a "you know I'm always defensive, why is this time different?" response.)  This I see as scummy (referencing your own meta as a defense), but he did the same thing as town in Greater Idea.   Also that one back in forth with Faust where he gave a preemptive "you're probably going to find me scummy for this" thing is somewhat of a scumtell to me.

I don't see how this isn't town Volt here.  In Greater Idea he stood out to me as quite not-town Volt.. it really seemed like he was fabricating his town play.  I don't see that here, he just seems like regular Volt.  He could have learned from that, but I can't imagine voting for him today.

Lolipop I have to reread.. I didn't follow the arguments made against him, or the votes on him.  That big post that Ash said was super scummy seemed not scummy at all to me.

Xerxes, Mail-Mi, Faust I think are town.  If Mail-Mi is scum, his partner is CERTAINLY someone quite experienced and theory/strategy-driven and cerebral: Ash, Faust, Voltaire, possibly Yuma, but I don't think Yuma goes for those kind of gambits.  As I think Faust and Voltaire are town, and only have a slight scum inclination on Ash, I'm not too compelled by the scum!Mail-Mi scenario.

- Agree with you on BA, but it's not a strong read for me
- I disagree with you on ichi, his debate with faust looked like town v. town, and his reactions to stuff seem reasonable thusfar
- I agree that there isn't really anything scummy about voltaire's play in general, however, I do have a scumread on him. Two reasons: 1) he rolled a 5, the lowest of everyone, and 2) The way he acted in regard to his vote on me was a bit strange.
- Yep, got to reread lolipop!
- I don't follow you with mail-mi. It is possible he is scum that actually has a role that benefits from not rolling, right?

[Witherweaver]

Does no one agree with me on BA?  I'm the only one voting there. 

PPE:2

[pingpongsam]

So we should either all be on at that time, or we should overkill the Troll with Mail-Mi.  I'm guessing no one is really going to go for the last option (except those that think Mail-Mi is scum).

I am in favor of the overkill but have no set suspicion he is scum.

[Ichimaru Gin]

So we should either all be on at that time, or we should overkill the Troll with Mail-Mi.  I'm guessing no one is really going to go for the last option (except those that think Mail-Mi is scum).

I am in favor of the overkill but have no set suspicion he is scum.

So you're saying you think it's safer to possibly (probably?) have a town PR be very weakened in order to combat a scum attack/ploy that may or may not happen?

[Witherweaver]

BA seems a lot lot lot like first-time scum to me.  Especially with the most recent jump to Volt.

Ichi seems like he's jumping the gun on acting defensive.  He knows it's expected of him and he's referenced it here. (Something along the lines of a "you know I'm always defensive, why is this time different?" response.)  This I see as scummy (referencing your own meta as a defense), but he did the same thing as town in Greater Idea.   Also that one back in forth with Faust where he gave a preemptive "you're probably going to find me scummy for this" thing is somewhat of a scumtell to me.

I don't see how this isn't town Volt here.  In Greater Idea he stood out to me as quite not-town Volt.. it really seemed like he was fabricating his town play.  I don't see that here, he just seems like regular Volt.  He could have learned from that, but I can't imagine voting for him today.

Lolipop I have to reread.. I didn't follow the arguments made against him, or the votes on him.  That big post that Ash said was super scummy seemed not scummy at all to me.

Xerxes, Mail-Mi, Faust I think are town.  If Mail-Mi is scum, his partner is CERTAINLY someone quite experienced and theory/strategy-driven and cerebral: Ash, Faust, Voltaire, possibly Yuma, but I don't think Yuma goes for those kind of gambits.  As I think Faust and Voltaire are town, and only have a slight scum inclination on Ash, I'm not too compelled by the scum!Mail-Mi scenario.

- Agree with you on BA, but it's not a strong read for me
- I disagree with you on ichi, his debate with faust looked like town v. town, and his reactions to stuff seem reasonable thusfar
- I agree that there isn't really anything scummy about voltaire's play in general, however, I do have a scumread on him. Two reasons: 1) he rolled a 5, the lowest of everyone, and 2) The way he acted in regard to his vote on me was a bit strange.
- Yep, got to reread lolipop!
- I don't follow you with mail-mi. It is possible he is scum that actually has a role that benefits from not rolling, right?

You're lolipop, grats

As for Mail-Mi, I totally agree, BUT, well, maybe my thinking is wrong.  But I have a hard time seeing him make this gambit ... first, it feels honest.  Secondly, he's not the player I expect to do it.  That could just be me totally misreading Mail-Mi as a general player.  But continuing on that line of thought.. it implies that if he is scum, it was a partner that came up with the idea and not him.  That idea I expect from the people I listed, so that's where my line of thought is there.

[Witherweaver]

So we should either all be on at that time, or we should overkill the Troll with Mail-Mi.  I'm guessing no one is really going to go for the last option (except those that think Mail-Mi is scum).

I am in favor of the overkill but have no set suspicion he is scum.

So you're saying you think it's safer to possibly (probably?) have a town PR be very weakened in order to combat a scum attack/ploy that may or may not happen?

Hm, very weakened?  We don't really know how the mechanics of his PR and how drastic of an effect rolling vs. saving is.

[Hydrad]

Does no one agree with me on BA?  I'm the only one voting there. 

PPE:2

The biggest weird thing about BA i find is that his 12 was untouched for the rerolls and stuff. I don't really find him scummy except for that part. It could just be that scum can't touch 12's? Although that would seem like an odd rule. I honestly don't know what to think of him but personally I find Volt and asher as my top 2 for being possible scum.

I don't think BA is town yet but I still think I feel safer with him then with others.

[Ichimaru Gin]

So we should either all be on at that time, or we should overkill the Troll with Mail-Mi.  I'm guessing no one is really going to go for the last option (except those that think Mail-Mi is scum).

I am in favor of the overkill but have no set suspicion he is scum.

So you're saying you think it's safer to possibly (probably?) have a town PR be very weakened in order to combat a scum attack/ploy that may or may not happen?

Hm, very weakened?  We don't really know how the mechanics of his PR and how drastic of an effect rolling vs. saving is.

Yeah you're right. From what we do know it sounds like this

Defeating the Troll > Not Rolling > Rolling Unnecessarily

So it may not have as much of an effect. Who knows, I don't think there's much use in speculating what mail-mi's PR is save that he would prefer to not roll if he could.

[Witherweaver]

Yeah, and I'm not advocating he do roll.  But I am 100^100% advocating that he be online right up to and including the Evening start in case he has to do something.

The rest of us should be, too.

[liopoil]

Okay, reads time:

scumreads: mail-mi, pingpongsam, Voltaire, XerxesPraelor, Beyond Awesome
nullreads: yuma, BoxOfDog, Hydrad
Unsure-reads: ashersky, chairs, Witherweaver
townreads: Ichimaru Gin, faust, liopoil

Would vote for: mail-mi, pingpongsam, Voltaire, Beyond Awesome
Might vote for: ashersky, chairs, Witherweaver
Not planning on voting for: yuma, BoxOfDog, Hydrad, XerxesPraelor
Won't vote for: Ichimaru Gin, faust, liopoil

explanations:

- I'm town
- Hydrad is a new player, nothing he has said so far gives me much of a read on him, but it seems we have set up a standard of not lynching the newbie D1 so I won't be voting there today.
- Yuma has been V/LA and everything he has done is null, including his vote for me. When he comes back, I am unlikely vote for him because in my experience he is always always null.
- I have found most things that Xerxes has done scummy, but I have never played with him before so I could be wrong. His interaction with faust has convinced faust that xerxes is town, so unless something happens I'll let xerxes live for today.
- BoxOfDog has done very little today. His roll was pro-town but he would have to have played that 11 even if he were scum. I could very well vote for him if he does something scummy later, of course.
- WW, chairs, and ashersky I have conflicting ideas about and I need to reread. Is chairs lurking? I feel like chairs is lurking.
- Ichimaru Gin and Faust are townreads that IIRC I have discussed elsewhere.
- I posted my thoughts on Voltaire very recently:

there isn't really anything scummy about voltaire's play in general, however, I do have a scumread on him. Two reasons: 1) he rolled a 5, the lowest of everyone, and 2) The way he acted in regard to his vote on me was a bit strange.

I think he is more likely to be scum than other people but not strongly enough to vote for him over my other scumreads just yet.
- Beyond Awesome is another slight scumread, his actions do seem to be playing it safe sort of, as first time scum. I don't like the timing of his voltaire vote and it is weird that he hasn't been rerolled while others have.
- PPS's vote on me was scummy because it didn't make sense, and I felt like he was sort of grasping at straws in the subsequent discussion. I also do not like his early claim, it is bad play if he is town, but a reasonable move as scum, which I can very much see him doing.
- I have no problem with mail-mi's claim. However, he has been very absent for someone who has been a big topic of discussion. His lurking seems to almost be an attempt to get us to forget about him. I don't have any problem seeing him deciding to make his claim as scum, so the claim itself is null. His has 20 posts in this game with very very little content. If he is town, he needs to be defending his actions and actively trying to find the real scum. Should he fullclaim? I can't know because I don't know his role, but my guess is that if he is town he probably should. I don't totally like the idea of having him roll though.

Of my scumreads, I think mail-mi is the scummiest, Vote: Mail-mi

[pingpongsam]

So we should either all be on at that time, or we should overkill the Troll with Mail-Mi.  I'm guessing no one is really going to go for the last option (except those that think Mail-Mi is scum).

I am in favor of the overkill but have no set suspicion he is scum.

So you're saying you think it's safer to possibly (probably?) have a town PR be very weakened in order to combat a scum attack/ploy that may or may not happen?

At the risk of being gratuitously redundant, yes, that is what I have been saying all along. Are just now taking issue with the notion.