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[Beyond Awesome]

Anyway, had a busy day today. It's 1AM here, so I'm pretty tired, so I'm not going to comment on the back and forth exchange between Ichi and Faust going on right now, but I have been giving a lot of thought about mail-mi all day. And, the more I think about it, the more concerned I am like Ash. Now, maybe, I am just being on the paranoid side. But, I think it is better to be a bit paranoid than not paranoid. But, Ash brings up a good point that if mail-mi is scum there is no telling what his power is and what trouble it can cause us later on down the road. On top of that, mail-mi even tells us that his power is anti-town. I'm not saying we should lynch mail-mi, but as town are we 100% sure it is in our best interest to not have mail-mi roll even though the troll has been defeated. Is the "supposed" benefit really going to be worth it. I honestly don't know. I feel like we might be taking an unnecessary risk here though.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Also faust. I realize that the argument between us is likely moving further into hostile and probably less productive territory.

I am incredibly frustrated, but I am not sure whether you are purposefully misinterpreting me, or we simply aren't getting our points across to each other. You have marked me as scum, since your very first post, and that is very difficult for me accept that you haven't given me a chance just because I rolled poorly and was forced to play a low dice. I understand that your read on me has evolved into more than that and includes other information, but your initial post and vote was based off of my roll and lack of contribution.

It is very difficult for me to think about other aspects of a game when I feel tunneled by someone. You must know that by riding me as hard and consistently as you have, it makes it nearly impossible for me to not respond to you and attempt to defend myself.

Perhaps the only way to solve this is for me to simply stop defending myself, as it apparently only leads to greater misunderstanding and frustration (on my part).

At any rate, it's 1 AM here as well. I guess I'll go to bed now. I really want to put in a caveat here predicting how you will misinterpret this to try and make me look scummy, but I won't.

[chairs]

post to avoid a prod. I saw chairs voted for me at one point... what was that about?

Was just doing a stream of consciousness post regarding the game.  One thing that came up was how scary it is to have you as scum in any of these games, because generally you're considered a good protection target and so it's not instantly "he's scum" if you don't die during the night.  Didn't I change my vote in that same post?

[faust]

Also faust. I realize that the argument between us is likely moving further into hostile and probably less productive territory.

I am incredibly frustrated, but I am not sure whether you are purposefully misinterpreting me, or we simply aren't getting our points across to each other. You have marked me as scum, since your very first post, and that is very difficult for me accept that you haven't given me a chance just because I rolled poorly and was forced to play a low dice. I understand that your read on me has evolved into more than that and includes other information, but your initial post and vote was based off of my roll and lack of contribution.

It is very difficult for me to think about other aspects of a game when I feel tunneled by someone. You must know that by riding me as hard and consistently as you have, it makes it nearly impossible for me to not respond to you and attempt to defend myself.

Perhaps the only way to solve this is for me to simply stop defending myself, as it apparently only leads to greater misunderstanding and frustration (on my part).

At any rate, it's 1 AM here as well. I guess I'll go to bed now. I really want to put in a caveat here predicting how you will misinterpret this to try and make me look scummy, but I won't.

"I really want to put a caveat here, but I won't, so here's a caveat."

More seriously: I like this tone better. If you felt I was being hostile, then I am sorry.

It was very interesting that you answered most of my posts, except the one where I explained why it is good to lynch low-rollers. What do you have to say about that?

[mail-mi]

mail-mi even tells us that his power is anti-town.

Never said that. You're probably thinking of PPS, who did say that.

[yuma]

I don't find Ichi scummy for playing a low dice. That happens unfortunately. Last game the only time dice rolling was reflective of alignment was chairs playing a 1... (perhaps the only scum slip that was legitimately a scumslip)

I actually think a huge mass claim in terms of powers/dice/rolls/stored dice/etc could be largely beneficial to us. It would give mafia info yes. But it would allow us to best coordinate how to defeat monsters, allow us to force mafia to be more or less truthful about their dice and what they are doing with them (maybe catch them in a lie in regard to what they are doing...) and coordinate powers better that we have as town. Yes downside is mafia would know what we are doing, be better able to determine kills and the like on powerful roles as is the usual with mass claiming... But I think it is very likely worth it.

[pingpongsam]

mail-mi even tells us that his power is anti-town.

Never said that. You're probably thinking of PPS, who did say that.

Quote me. I don't recall this being said by anyone, least of all me.

I do recall stating that I think I'd rather not have a super town power at the risk of possibly receiving a super scum power instead when having a likely VT/Goon power is an option without a potential mislynch.

With the troll defeated a single dice roll and play is all that is required and could even seal the deal from scum possibly further altering our rolls and leaving us with an alive troll.

[yuma]

Oh yeah, I got an anti-town power.

?

[Witherweaver]

mail-mi even tells us that his power is anti-town.

Never said that. You're probably thinking of PPS, who did say that.

Quote me. I don't recall this being said by anyone, least of all me.

I do recall stating that I think I'd rather not have a super town power at the risk of possibly receiving a super scum power instead when having a likely VT/Goon power is an option without a potential mislynch.

With the troll defeated a single dice roll and play is all that is required and could even seal the deal from scum possibly further altering our rolls and leaving us with an alive troll.

You said it about your own power, not Mail-Mi's.

[pingpongsam]

mail-mi even tells us that his power is anti-town.

Never said that. You're probably thinking of PPS, who did say that.

Quote me. I don't recall this being said by anyone, least of all me.

I do recall stating that I think I'd rather not have a super town power at the risk of possibly receiving a super scum power instead when having a likely VT/Goon power is an option without a potential mislynch.

With the troll defeated a single dice roll and play is all that is required and could even seal the deal from scum possibly further altering our rolls and leaving us with an alive troll.

You said it about your own power, not Mail-Mi's.

Oh, yeah, okay... that is correct. Unless we identify a scum for certain going into a night (unlikely) I will not be using my power.

[Beyond Awesome]

mail-mi even tells us that his power is anti-town.

Never said that. You're probably thinking of PPS, who did say that.

Sorry, that does seem like that was the case. I don't know why I thought it was you that said that.

Either way, what I have said about Mail-Mi stands. We know there are only 3 mafia. Is it really worth allowing Mail-Mi to power up even if he is town? Do we really need his power when we don't even know what that is? If he is scum, there is no telling what his power allows him to do if he powers up. So, I am agreeing with the points Ash brought up earlier. I do feel allowing him to power up might be an unnecessary gambit for town.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Also faust. I realize that the argument between us is likely moving further into hostile and probably less productive territory.

I am incredibly frustrated, but I am not sure whether you are purposefully misinterpreting me, or we simply aren't getting our points across to each other. You have marked me as scum, since your very first post, and that is very difficult for me accept that you haven't given me a chance just because I rolled poorly and was forced to play a low dice. I understand that your read on me has evolved into more than that and includes other information, but your initial post and vote was based off of my roll and lack of contribution.

It is very difficult for me to think about other aspects of a game when I feel tunneled by someone. You must know that by riding me as hard and consistently as you have, it makes it nearly impossible for me to not respond to you and attempt to defend myself.

Perhaps the only way to solve this is for me to simply stop defending myself, as it apparently only leads to greater misunderstanding and frustration (on my part).

At any rate, it's 1 AM here as well. I guess I'll go to bed now. I really want to put in a caveat here predicting how you will misinterpret this to try and make me look scummy, but I won't.

"I really want to put a caveat here, but I won't, so here's a caveat."

More seriously: I like this tone better. If you felt I was being hostile, then I am sorry.

It was very interesting that you answered most of my posts, except the one where I explained why it is good to lynch low-rollers. What do you have to say about that?

I agree with your points. And, it is true that town who has gotten bad luck is less useful given they don't have high stored rolls, etc. It didn't really touch on PR's, which I think is important to factor in though. I mean, I know that the number someone rolls isn't the only thing driving your reads, but in the WIFOM that rolls are, you choose one path, while I still see it as WIFOM. Perhaps that is because I am town who has gotten unlucky and persecuted for it. I might feel differently if I had rolled a good number and saw other people playing low ones (possibly your viewpoint).

So yuma wants a massclaim? I feel against that at this point. It seems like scum have PR's that can mess with people and they can use the day's monster to attack people--and perhaps other things as well. And since we don't really know what PR's are possible or likely or really anything, I feel like the info wouldn't actually help us that much.

[Witherweaver]

I would oppose claiming, as I think in this particular case it would be a hindrance. 

[pingpongsam]

I think D1 mass-claiming is practically always a bad idea. I become more open to the idea as the game progresses and even more so when a scum or 2 have already been eliminated.

Suggesting a D1 mass-claim is scummy 2nd only to suggesting no-lynch (which I ma not sure is even possible, must check after this post).

[pingpongsam]

No lynch is an option (that I absolutely am not suggesting for consideration) that forces scum to attempt a NK following that day.

[chairs]

How close are we to Evening?  Can we have mail-mi set a Conditional Order in his QT to roll if the target gets un-met just prior to Evening, to avoid any last-second shenanigans from Mafia?

[Hydrad]

How close are we to Evening?  Can we have mail-mi set a Conditional Order in his QT to roll if the target gets un-met just prior to Evening, to avoid any last-second shenanigans from Mafia?

Actually thats a good point. are scum allowed to wait 5 minutes before the night ends and get rid of our roles? will we have time to reroll if that happens as I don't think we should be expected to refresh the page constantly right before night ends.

[Ichimaru Gin]

How close are we to Evening?  Can we have mail-mi set a Conditional Order in his QT to roll if the target gets un-met just prior to Evening, to avoid any last-second shenanigans from Mafia?

Actually thats a good point. are scum allowed to wait 5 minutes before the night ends and get rid of our roles? will we have time to reroll if that happens as I don't think we should be expected to refresh the page constantly right before night ends.

Yeah, that would seem pretty unfair. Did anything like that happen in the previous game? Where even when the target was reached, scum could still change the numbers and have the troll still live?

[Witherweaver]

From last vote count:

Evening begins on July 1 at 4pm forum time.

[Ichimaru Gin]

From last vote count:

Evening begins on July 1 at 4pm forum time.

Do we get the prize at evening or at the end of the (official) day?

[Witherweaver]

I kind of doubt a conditional order would be allowed.  That seems to bridge the gap between players doing stuff and mods doing stuff.

[Witherweaver]

From last vote count:

Evening begins on July 1 at 4pm forum time.

Do we get the prize at evening or at the end of the (official) day?

Why does it matter?

[Ichimaru Gin]

From last vote count:

Evening begins on July 1 at 4pm forum time.

Do we get the prize at evening or at the end of the (official) day?

Why does it matter?

Well if we get it earlier, wouldn't we have time to discuss it and/or use it?

[Witherweaver]

From last vote count:

Evening begins on July 1 at 4pm forum time.

Do we get the prize at evening or at the end of the (official) day?

Why does it matter?

Well if we get it earlier, wouldn't we have time to discuss it and/or use it?

More appropriately: does the knowledge of that, now, matter?

[Ichimaru Gin]

From last vote count:

Evening begins on July 1 at 4pm forum time.

Do we get the prize at evening or at the end of the (official) day?

Why does it matter?

Well if we get it earlier, wouldn't we have time to discuss it and/or use it?

More appropriately: does the knowledge of that, now, matter?

Well are you keeping common knowledge from me?

I don't know that it is that important. But it would in the sense of what I mentioned. chairs and BA are concerned about scum pulling a last minute pre-evening ploy. If we get the prize as soon as evening comes, it will definitely impact the rest of the day, so it is important.

From your tone, it sounds like you're seeing me as "scum trying to plan something or something". But seriously, if it was that important for me to know this, I'd just go check myself, but it's easier for me to ask.