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[Ichimaru Gin]

I think the "BA is scum that rolled 1 die, has the reroll power, but can't reroll himself" is an awfully interesting line of thought.  I'm certainly less inclined than others (Voltaire) to just right anybody off as town just yet.

Point of clarification, D1 POE isn't an attempt to "name the scum team D1", it's an attempt to "maximize the odds the D1 lynch is on scum". There's really only one person I'm "writing off" as town right now and it's XP. Though I certainly think several others are town right now.

Well, if you're town, how do you feel about being found scummy for playing a low dice?
What does it make you think of faust that he's handing out scum points right and left for things which are random and out of our control to a large degree? I mean, unless you roll a ton of dice, you aren't guaranteed to get a large number.

[Voltaire]

I think the "BA is scum that rolled 1 die, has the reroll power, but can't reroll himself" is an awfully interesting line of thought.  I'm certainly less inclined than others (Voltaire) to just right anybody off as town just yet.

Point of clarification, D1 POE isn't an attempt to "name the scum team D1", it's an attempt to "maximize the odds the D1 lynch is on scum". There's really only one person I'm "writing off" as town right now and it's XP. Though I certainly think several others are town right now.

Well, if you're town, how do you feel about being found scummy for playing a low dice?
What does it make you think of faust that he's handing out scum points right and left for things which are random and out of our control to a large degree? I mean, unless you roll a ton of dice, you aren't guaranteed to get a large number.

It's understandable, basically, and I also think it's wrong. Last game all the low rollers were town. I am wondering if the fact that proved so devastating means scum won't do it this game, which leads to suspicion of you. On the other hand, you weren't around then.

faust strikes me as more likely to be town. He could be scum who self-targeted the re-roll for WIFOM but I'm not so sure about that on D1.

He was the one who answered XP's question, wasn't he?

[Witherweaver]

I think the "BA is scum that rolled 1 die, has the reroll power, but can't reroll himself" is an awfully interesting line of thought.  I'm certainly less inclined than others (Voltaire) to just right anybody off as town just yet.

Point of clarification, D1 POE isn't an attempt to "name the scum team D1", it's an attempt to "maximize the odds the D1 lynch is on scum". There's really only one person I'm "writing off" as town right now and it's XP. Though I certainly think several others are town right now.

Well, if you're town, how do you feel about being found scummy for playing a low dice?
What does it make you think of faust that he's handing out scum points right and left for things which are random and out of our control to a large degree? I mean, unless you roll a ton of dice, you aren't guaranteed to get a large number.

See the problem with your defense, as I said before, is that you're not really defending against the other person's position.  If someone is finding you scummy for having a low roll, they obviously don't think that you're town and just got unlucky.  Yes, it's possible it's random and out of your control, but it may also not be out of your control.  It's also possible that a low roll is from a scum who rolled multiple dice, saved a different one, and played a low or mid-range roll in hopes we'd miss out on killing the monster.

If you're telling the truth here, then yes, from your position it was just random and unlucky.  Form everyone else's position, they can't know that.  The claim that Faust targeted you unfairly isn't really valid; you have to see the line of thinking where playing low rolls draws suspicion. 

[Ichimaru Gin]

I think the "BA is scum that rolled 1 die, has the reroll power, but can't reroll himself" is an awfully interesting line of thought.  I'm certainly less inclined than others (Voltaire) to just right anybody off as town just yet.

Point of clarification, D1 POE isn't an attempt to "name the scum team D1", it's an attempt to "maximize the odds the D1 lynch is on scum". There's really only one person I'm "writing off" as town right now and it's XP. Though I certainly think several others are town right now.

Well, if you're town, how do you feel about being found scummy for playing a low dice?
What does it make you think of faust that he's handing out scum points right and left for things which are random and out of our control to a large degree? I mean, unless you roll a ton of dice, you aren't guaranteed to get a large number.

See the problem with your defense, as I said before, is that you're not really defending against the other person's position.  If someone is finding you scummy for having a low roll, they obviously don't think that you're town and just got unlucky.  Yes, it's possible it's random and out of your control, but it may also not be out of your control.  It's also possible that a low roll is from a scum who rolled multiple dice, saved a different one, and played a low or mid-range roll in hopes we'd miss out on killing the monster.

If you're telling the truth here, then yes, from your position it was just random and unlucky.  Form everyone else's position, they can't know that.  The claim that Faust targeted you unfairly isn't really valid; you have to see the line of thinking where playing low rolls draws suspicion.

Well obviously, scum has a vested interest in playing low numbers. I see the argument, but it's really 100% WIFOM. Aside from reads separate from the numbers that someone plays, there is no way to tell if they are unlucky town or lying scum. I hope that people see this.
To me, this is one of the things that makes this setup really interesting. It would be pretty dull if faust was right and it's just a cut and dry low number = scum (which of course it isn't).

[Voltaire]

Better than spending time on IG right now would be spending time on Box, lio, or BA.

[liopoil]

What? I DEFINITELY read the OP and setup post (I always do!) and there's no way that was there at the time. Was it added later? That's something I would have taken note of and remembered for sure.

[liopoil]

Good thing about this scenario is: We know two scum roles with relative certainty, Thief and Reroller. With only 3 mafia in total, that means there's only one more role we have to worry about.

How do you know there are exactly 3 mafia??

vote: liopoil

Tried to prevent XP from becoming a consensus town read, too.

Why does my having missed some crucial game information make me more likely to be scum? Obviously scum can fake this, but do they have a motive to? Doesn't seem like it, since all it does is garner votes

As for my suspicion of XP, I think I had (and have) good reason for that, and am only not voting him because of faust.

[liopoil]

Why are people talking about voting for box? Obviously is lurking is bad, but he hasn't posted at all. He clearly is busy doing something or another, regardless of his alignment. I don't think scum!box would just decide not to post right off the bat.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Why are people talking about voting for box? Obviously is lurking is bad, but he hasn't posted at all. He clearly is busy doing something or another, regardless of his alignment. I don't think scum!box would just decide not to post right off the bat.

If he was scum, I'm sure his buddies would have told him not to do that. Didn't he play a 12, or was that BA and Box has yet to play a dice?

[liopoil]

Why are people talking about voting for box? Obviously is lurking is bad, but he hasn't posted at all. He clearly is busy doing something or another, regardless of his alignment. I don't think scum!box would just decide not to post right off the bat.

If he was scum, I'm sure his buddies would have told him not to do that. Didn't he play a 12, or was that BA and Box has yet to play a dice?

BA played a 12. box hasn't even posted yet.

[Voltaire]

What? I DEFINITELY read the OP and setup post (I always do!) and there's no way that was there at the time. Was it added later? That's something I would have taken note of and remembered for sure.

It DEFINITELY has been there since the beginning.

[Voltaire]

As for my suspicion of XP, I think I had (and have) good reason for that, and am only not voting him because of faust.

I think you don't. What did faust say that so convinced you?

[liopoil]

What? I DEFINITELY read the OP and setup post (I always do!) and there's no way that was there at the time. Was it added later? That's something I would have taken note of and remembered for sure.

It DEFINITELY has been there since the beginning.

did you see it there at the very beginning? I am almost certain that it wasn't. That post was edited as recently as two days ago. I read the OP and setup post just a few hours after PMs were sent.

[liopoil]

As for my suspicion of XP, I think I had (and have) good reason for that, and am only not voting him because of faust.

I think you don't. What did faust say that so convinced you?

You think I don't? Well, did you read my explanation for my vote on him? faust told me to trust him, that XP was town. I have a town read on faust and they do have an interaction which leads me to believe that faust possibly has very good reason to believe XP is town. XP is not off the table for me; I still think his actions are suspicious, but for now I am going to trust faust.

[chairs]

I think the "BA is scum that rolled 1 die, has the reroll power, but can't reroll himself" is an awfully interesting line of thought.  I'm certainly less inclined than others (Voltaire) to just right anybody off as town just yet.

Point of clarification, D1 POE isn't an attempt to "name the scum team D1", it's an attempt to "maximize the odds the D1 lynch is on scum". There's really only one person I'm "writing off" as town right now and it's XP. Though I certainly think several others are town right now.

Fair enough, and it's not like I don't also use D1 POE.  I just wanted to tease you a little bit 

[ashersky]

Can we lynch mail-mi now?

[Witherweaver]

Can we lynch mail-mi now?

Certainly not---the Troll isn't dead.

[ashersky]

Can we lynch mail-mi now?

Certainly not---the Troll isn't dead.

Ah!  Good point.

Can we lynch mail-mi when he refuses to kill the Troll?

[ashersky]

Request prod on Box.

[liopoil]

Can we lynch mail-mi when he refuses to kill the Troll?

yes, of course.

[ashersky]

Quoting for truth.

General Gameplay and Etiquette:

6. As a general rule you should aim for one post every 24 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving.

Miscellaneous/Mechanics:

5. Prods of missing players will be issued automatically on request after 24 hours of no activity.  A prodded player has 48 hours to respond or risks replacement.  A player who has been prodded 3 times is subject to replacement without further notice.

7. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread.  Treat this game as a commitment.  Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging.

[mail-mi]

Can we lynch mail-mi now?

Certainly not---the Troll isn't dead.

Ah!  Good point.

Can we lynch mail-mi when he refuses to kill the Troll?

No, because I won't. If my roll is needed then my roll will be rolled.

[pingpongsam]

Mail-mi, would you care to respond to my analysis on the implications if you are scum? By that, I do not mean defend yourself but state if and why you think letting us make you super power is a fair risk to take should you prove to be scum. In other words, in terms of risk assessment how is not more prudent to force you to roll regardless of your alignment?

I'd love to hear others respond as well. I think it is an important point but no one seems to care.

[Beyond Awesome]

Mail-mi, would you care to respond to my analysis on the implications if you are scum? By that, I do not mean defend yourself but state if and why you think letting us make you super power is a fair risk to take should you prove to be scum. In other words, in terms of risk assessment how is not more prudent to force you to roll regardless of your alignment?

I'd love to hear others respond as well. I think it is an important point but no one seems to care.

Actually, I do care as well. And, I agree with your points.

[mail-mi]

What if scum!mail-mi's role gets more powerful if he manages to not roll today?

This actually seems very plausible because effectively not rolling as scum would take big balls.

Is there a precedent from the last game of such a role?

Not that I am aware of. I am thinking of it more from a design standpoint. It makes more sense to make a scum role that gets more powerful if they succeed in doing something public that would certainly be in scum's interest to be doing. The obvious angle is to claim you are going to be a more powerful Town role. Also, I was imagining how the role might get more powerful and I imagined one in which I steal dice (because I know dice were stolen) and if I can maintain a certain number of dice into the night I have access to a better power. Nothing about that sounds towny though I am Town with a directly anti-town role power.

Anyway, all that is to say that I think we should weigh the risk vs. reward in case mail-mi is scum. while a super powered Townie is always nice (maybe he loses all dice but becomes IC?) is is worth the risk of a super power scum? I, personally, think I'd rather mitigate the risk of a super powered scum being created at the loss of a potential super powered Townie.

Initially I was going along with mail-mi because I considered his forward and blatant claim to be ardent for scum to be making but now that I deliberate on it I am not so certain it wasn't the only real move he had to make as scum. It has to at least be considered.

is this the one you're talking about?