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Author Topic: Civilization: Beyond Earth  (Read 13585 times)

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WalrusMcFishSr

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Re: Civilization: Beyond Earth
« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2014, 12:55:09 am »
+2

I just finished my first game as well! Played as the Asians, only on the Mercury difficulty (second to easiest) but I was able to get a Contact victory on my first try, with a strong emphasis on research and economy. About half and half Purity and Supremacy with all my virtues in Knowledge. I pretty much just rushed to get the techs I needed to decode the beacon and launch the satellite, and the Asian wonder building bonus helped a bit. I also invested in some espionage, which was pretty helpful actually...for example, I stole a useful genetics tech to boost my health right as it was dipping to critical levels.

Only went to war twice...early on the Slavs decided they didn't like sharing a border, and tried to march in. I didn't have much military at that point, but I had enough cash stockpiled to immediately purchase an army. I was able to repel them easily and they gave up once I started to retaliate. Soon after that I figured out that I should be trading, and then everybody loved me for a while as our economies grew interdependent. At the very end of the game, after I had constructed the beacon, the Slavs and the Franco-Iberians declared war...possibly because I was approaching a victory (I assume the AI can figure that out) and also because our idealogies had seriously diverged. (The Harmonious Slavs got mad at me for blowing away miasma! I thought that was pretty clever for the AI.) Well, that war went much more poorly, considering it was on two fronts, and I had invested basically zero effort in my military, so everyone else had like laser hovertanks and I'm using sticks and rocks. But my city defense was pretty good, the beacon was in a defensible spot, and I was able to hang on and still keep my economy rolling enough to win. The difficulty wasn't that bad but I'll reserve judgment until I try the harder settings. I'd definitely like to experiment with a more warmongering approach.

Overall I enjoyed it! I played all afternoon, and I'll probably play some more soon, so it certainly has the Civ "one more turn..." appeal in full force. I did notice it is still a bit rough around the edges, there were certainly some glitches and weird behavior, but nothing game breaking. I agree that managing the trade routes is a huge pain in the ass, especially considering how lucrative it is; there should definitely be a trade menu or something. Diplomacy and the AI in general seemed OK...I never got anyone to enter a pact of cooperation with me for some reason, but other than that they behaved reasonably. I was able to trade for the petroleum I needed at a reasonable price.

Personally I believe this game "feels" very similar to Civ V mechanically. All the essential Civ V elements are there, most saliently the hex grid, city defense, and unit Pauli exclusion principle. I'm not complaining about that, mind you, I thought the Civ V mechanics were excellent and I'm glad to see them replicated in space. I definitely think it falls more on the side of Civ V than Alpha Centauri in the spectrum (except with the setting). I agree that I love the degree of customization, that feels very Alpha Centauri (although I do miss the unit design! Helicopter colony pods with a cloaking device!). The tech web is SWEET, although I'm not sure it's extensive enough for the timeframe...Alpha Centauri's tech got into some really crazy stuff like black hole tech and time travel. I like the Purity/Supremacy/Harmony system. The virtue system is fine, it feels just like the thing from Civ V. I appreciate that you can customize the loadout of your drop pod at the beginning of the game. The aliens were pretty cool, but largely irrelevant. The Jarvis-type tutorial bot was helpful at first, but I don't need to hear that my spy is idle for the 5000th time. The music was superb!

Where the game disappointed me was in the flavor. Alpha Centauri is one of my favorite games of all time. It really changed the way I think about the future of humanity; I think it stands as a legitimate work of science fiction as well as being a fun and excellent game. Each of the 7 leaders had serious personality, which was shown through the awesome quotations and videos that really painted a picture of the unforgiving world which they inhabited. The Civ: BE leaders had little to no personality at all. I dealt with the Russian guy the most in this playthrough because we were neighbors and enemies. His most defining personality trait was that he spoke Russian...sort of like Russia from Civ V. The Australian guy is like "What's mine is yours...for a price." Ha ha ha very funny Mr. Australian guy. Except he says this as he's begging me for resources, so it's actually incongruous and weird. The only one I remember at all having any sort of personality was the CEO, but she was totally cheesy and obnoxious. Adam Smith quotes?? Who the hell quotes Adam Smith in 2800? I'll put it on my debit sheet?? Why are you using ridiculous 20th century anachronisms. It's silly.

Meanwhile in Alpha Centauri, the corporate archetype, CEO Nwabudike Morgan, is a complete badass. Sure he's African, with an awesome African accent, but that's not his principal trait. He's suave, greedy, and indulgent, but the way he talks you can believe that it's a good thing, that mankind's dream and destiny is unbounded wealth! And then Yang convinces you that your suffering is meaningless, or that your duty as a citizen is to eat the recycled corpses of your dead comrades. You think, man Miriam raises a good point, what OF the immortal soul when a ship passes through Bulk matter transmitter? Maybe I'm just being nostalgic here, I was relatively young when I played the game and that was the first time I was exposed to a lot of those science fiction themes. But they really resonated with me.

Maybe they did develop the Civ: BE characters in the quotes. But then why did they only use that one voice actress? Was it a budget thing? It was OK when it was Leonard Nimoy, but it all sounds boring and the same to me, and that's most of the reason I can't sympathize with the leaders. And the quotes didn't seem really interesting by the looks of it, mostly pithy and humorous. "Robots don't need breaks, they make great workers -- you should learn a lesson from them hurr hurr hurr." That's the problem--the whole thing has got that Civ V cartoony sheen on it. I liked the dark grittiness of Alpha Centauri. I liked my drone riots and consequent nerve stapling. I liked how when you researched Mind/Machine Interface the quotation says something about how he feels his thoughts cross over to the machine, but then the unsettling thing is that the machine's thoughts, cold and alien, cross BACK into his mind, and that's pretty freaky. "We must dissent" still gives me chills. And MAN, each one of the Secret Projects ("Wonders") had a short video that went with it. Those videos were SO AWESOME. That was the main incentive to build the Secret Projects, to watch these cool videos. Most of the Wonders in Civ: BE had some generic technobabble name that I don't care about because I don't really know what it is. I know videos haven't been a thing for a while in Civ games. But why not??? That was like the best part!!! I'm serious, watch these videos:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBBA4EA8EABF39223

Anyway, enough yammering, It's seriously a fun game. 4/5 stars, great fun and solid mechanics but loses points for not living up to my unreasonable expectations.   
« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 03:02:22 pm by WalrusMcFishSr »
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pacovf

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Re: Civilization: Beyond Earth
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2014, 05:27:16 am »
+1

Biggest problem with C:BE... Miasma is invisible. Especially on fungal maps.

EDIT: I've got AC sitting around somewhere, maybe I should try it out sometime.
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Teproc

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Re: Civilization: Beyond Earth
« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2014, 06:24:42 am »
+2

Ichi, no stacking does change the game tremendously... for the better imo because it makes combat actually intereesting rather than mindless stacks crashing into each other. The AI sucks at 1UPT combat though, which is by far the biggest problem with that system.

As for BE's flavour, it existsbut it's hidden deep in the civilopedia :(
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Ichimaru Gin

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Re: Civilization: Beyond Earth
« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2014, 12:07:10 pm »
0

Ichi, no stacking does change the game tremendously... for the better imo because it makes combat actually intereesting rather than mindless stacks crashing into each other. The AI sucks at 1UPT combat though, which is by far the biggest problem with that system.

As for BE's flavour, it existsbut it's hidden deep in the civilopedia :(
Yeah I tried to present a balanced viewpoint on unit stacking, but I'm probably still biased towards the old system. Civ 4 made me very used to having that capability--and although it had it's faults, I don't think the system was irredeemable. They could have gone with say limited stacks of say 3-5 units--though there's probably a good reason why they didn't that I can't see right now cause I just woke up.

Kind of ironic this thread is about Civ: BE and I'm still having fun coming back to Civ 4. It's probably just a testament to the incredible game design of the entire series.

Edit: Spelling

jonts26

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Re: Civilization: Beyond Earth
« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2014, 01:09:35 pm »
+1

CivBE seems to be in a similar place to Civ5 when that was first released. Civ4 had two expansions which really made it one of the best games in the series. Not to say Civ4 vanilla was bad, but it felt much more like the best game in the series by the end of its lifecycle. Civ5 vanilla in comparison, while it introduced some really interesting mechanics like hexes and 1UPT, had a number of bugs and it wasn't completely polished. It felt incomplete. However, now Civ5 after two expansions is a really great game, on par, maybe even exceeding Civ4, imo (I really like 1UPT, just wish the AI could be better with it). Now CivBE comes out and, it feels incomplete. There are a number of small bugs and the interface needs work and it sort of just feels like they rushed it out the door. Also there are some early reports of balancing issues, which I'm sure will be addressed at some point.

So basically, I'm having fun with BE. It's a good game. And maybe in an expansion or two it might even be a great game.
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Re: Civilization: Beyond Earth
« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2014, 05:16:01 pm »
0

I doubt it will have expansions though. The obvious bugs and balance issues (trade routes) will probably be patched and that's it.

Colonization didn't get expansions for example.
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Ichimaru Gin

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Re: Civilization: Beyond Earth
« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2014, 05:25:19 pm »
+1

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markusin

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Re: Civilization: Beyond Earth
« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2014, 05:53:57 pm »
0

I doubt it will have expansions though. The obvious bugs and balance issues (trade routes) will probably be patched and that's it.

Colonization didn't get expansions for example.
Yeah a lot of the issues seem to be based on stuff that can be addressed by patches.

I'm annoyed at the trade route UI. I can't select trade convoys it seems, and there's no battle sequence when a convoy gets destroyed by an alien. There's just some exclamation mark on the far right on the turn it happens.

Edit: Oh right, trade convoys are selectable, but you don't get much info out of them.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 06:37:48 pm by markusin »
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markusin

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Re: Civilization: Beyond Earth
« Reply #33 on: October 30, 2014, 06:58:13 pm »
+2

I finished my first Civilization: Beyond Earth game to completion. Mercury difficulty on a small world with a few islands. 6 players total.

I picked Pan-Asia for their Wonder production and worker bonuses. I was aiming for the Harmony victory, because hey that's cool right? I was on a Continent with 2 other players, while the other 3 players were doing their own thing. I conquered one of my neighbours early, and was pretty surprised at how low my health got. It took a long time to get back into positive health, at which point I conquered my other neighbour. They were threatening! I had to!

The game feels a lot like a Civ game in how powerful the positive feedback of civilization size works out. One thign that annoyed my was the learning curve increase due to not knowing what yield bonuses you can choose from for building bonus quests until you build the building. It doesn't matter for early game stuff you'll be building anyway, but it makes you unsure of how good or useful the buildings unlocked by late game techs actually are to your current position.

Overall, it's a fun game. It looks like I need to try a higher difficulty though.
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jonts26

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Re: Civilization: Beyond Earth
« Reply #34 on: October 30, 2014, 07:23:14 pm »
0

I've found the difficulty to be fairly disappointing. In Civ5 I could beat Deity usually, but I had to really work for it and squeeze every last drop of efficiency from my game. In BE, even on Apollo I can win pretty easy and I know I'm not playing optimal strategies as I'm still sort of figuring everything out and trying new things.

Oh and about health, being negative is really not a big deal at all. You could easily play pretty much ignoring health altogether and just pumping out new cities constantly and still win. Though what I've found is its best to expand fast early game, dip into negative health for a while and then work towards some of the really strong health virtues and techs and eventually get 20+ health.
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Jdaki

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Re: Civilization: Beyond Earth
« Reply #35 on: October 30, 2014, 08:11:15 pm »
0

I have to state my disappointment at the end of my second game, Vostok difficulty (one up from normal?), PAC, went for Harmony victory. I thought, I'll be prepared, so built up my army all around the Mind Flower, boosted miasma everywhere, built tracks everywhere, ready for the massive event that would happen when it was completed.......
Oh nothing happened- just count down the turns till it finished. AI didn't even try and fight me- they did, kind of, in the previous difficulty setting for the Purity victory. Though at least one of the AI did almost have a victory- he finished the gate and had settled a few of the earth survivors. I stomped my Xeno titan around to have a look, given there was nothing to fight.
Real shame- can't be hard to program a script to spawn a bunch of nests everywhere- where was the geophysical activity?

Still pretty enjoyable as normal, but does need some work out of the box.
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markusin

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Re: Civilization: Beyond Earth
« Reply #36 on: October 30, 2014, 09:35:01 pm »
0

I've found the difficulty to be fairly disappointing. In Civ5 I could beat Deity usually, but I had to really work for it and squeeze every last drop of efficiency from my game. In BE, even on Apollo I can win pretty easy and I know I'm not playing optimal strategies as I'm still sort of figuring everything out and trying new things.

Oh and about health, being negative is really not a big deal at all. You could easily play pretty much ignoring health altogether and just pumping out new cities constantly and still win. Though what I've found is its best to expand fast early game, dip into negative health for a while and then work towards some of the really strong health virtues and techs and eventually get 20+ health.
Oh yeah, totally agree about the health. In my case, expansion meant conquering my Brazilian neighbour. My health was -10 to -15 for like a hundred turns before I got huge health tech stuff. Unlike happiness in the older Civ games, it barely seemed to matter. But -10% science and culture builds up over a long time.

I had started a new game on my (considerably slower computer) at my dad's house where I went crazy with culture production. Investing heavily in virtues is just tons of fun.

I suspect the AI won't significantly improve with difficulty level. There were a lot of combat mistakes from the AI that made me facepalm n Mercury difficulty. Unless the AI can effectively wage war, the game can't be made challenging in a fair way. Too bad, because the framework that's been set up has a lot of potential for interesting games with multiple viable strategies.

Edit: I noticed that mind stems didn't speed up the victory countdown for the mind flower after the flower had been build. I looked online, and it appears the stems only affect the countdown if built BEFORE the mind flower finishes. There was no indication of this, and the advice message after I built the mind flower makes it seem like I have the build the stems afterwards. It was a good thing I built up a bunch before the countdown anyway. Only had a 15 turn wait. As usual for a civ game, conquering a continent half the size of the world keeps you safe from the AI.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2014, 09:44:05 pm by markusin »
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jonts26

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Re: Civilization: Beyond Earth
« Reply #37 on: October 31, 2014, 12:08:13 am »
+2

There's a mod you might want to check out called beyond balance. Among other things, it has a more competent AI. I haven't tried it yet, but maybe if I play a game this weekend I will. The AI was done by the same guy that did one of the very good civ5 AI mods, so I suspect it will be a significant improvement.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=331383062&searchtext=
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markusin

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Re: Civilization: Beyond Earth
« Reply #38 on: October 31, 2014, 07:33:17 am »
0

There's a mod you might want to check out called beyond balance. Among other things, it has a more competent AI. I haven't tried it yet, but maybe if I play a game this weekend I will. The AI was done by the same guy that did one of the very good civ5 AI mods, so I suspect it will be a significant improvement.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=331383062&searchtext=
Wow, that was fast. Was this being worked on before the official game release or something? I'll be trying it out as well when I get the chance.
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jonts26

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Re: Civilization: Beyond Earth
« Reply #39 on: October 31, 2014, 08:37:53 am »
0

There's a mod you might want to check out called beyond balance. Among other things, it has a more competent AI. I haven't tried it yet, but maybe if I play a game this weekend I will. The AI was done by the same guy that did one of the very good civ5 AI mods, so I suspect it will be a significant improvement.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=331383062&searchtext=
Wow, that was fast. Was this being worked on before the official game release or something? I'll be trying it out as well when I get the chance.

I think a lot of the AI code was carried over from Civ5 since it's the same engine.
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jonts26

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Re: Civilization: Beyond Earth
« Reply #40 on: November 04, 2014, 11:38:57 am »
+2

I just realized this thread is in the other board games subforum. What is it doing here?
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markusin

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Re: Civilization: Beyond Earth
« Reply #41 on: November 05, 2014, 08:17:54 am »
0

I just realized this thread is in the other board games subforum. What is it doing here?
I know. It was tripping me up when I was looking for the thread. Maybe the definition of "board game" has gotten lax ever since Hearthstone made it on here.
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Re: Civilization: Beyond Earth
« Reply #42 on: November 05, 2014, 09:03:17 am »
+1

I just realized this thread is in the other board games subforum. What is it doing here?
I know. It was tripping me up when I was looking for the thread. Maybe the definition of "board game" has gotten lax ever since Hearthstone made it on here.

I blame Cookie Clicker.
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theory

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Re: Civilization: Beyond Earth
« Reply #43 on: November 05, 2014, 09:57:07 am »
+3

Maybe I should just rename this forum to Other Games (Board and Video)?
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Re: Civilization: Beyond Earth
« Reply #44 on: November 05, 2014, 01:14:35 pm »
0

But Heartstone and Civilization *play* like card/board games, respectively.  It's not like we're discussing WoW or anything like that.
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Re: Civilization: Beyond Earth
« Reply #45 on: November 05, 2014, 01:26:30 pm »
0

I think this thread, as well as the Hearthstone subforum, shouldn't be here.

EDIT: Most definitely, the Cookie Clicker thread shouldn't be here.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2014, 01:28:24 pm by Watno »
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Re: Civilization: Beyond Earth
« Reply #46 on: November 05, 2014, 05:37:59 pm »
0

But Heartstone and Civilization *play* like card/board games, respectively.  It's not like we're discussing WoW or anything like that.
I don't think Civilization plays much like a board game. To me, the key defining what feels like a card/board game is that I feel I can reasonably predict the outcome of the rules myself without the aid of a computer. In Civilization, the game is set up in a way that kinda hides the detailed rules unless you really go digging for them, and even then it's hard to integrate them into complete predictability, and given the amount of formulas, tedious too if you weren't using a calculator at minimum.

I agree with you on Hearthstone though. There, although the lack of a rulebook makes working through edge cases difficult, the vast majority of rules are easily discoverable and easy to think through in your head.
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Re: Civilization: Beyond Earth
« Reply #47 on: November 05, 2014, 06:39:21 pm »
+1

What's hidden about Civilization ? Anything you're looking for you cna find in the Civilopedia pretty much, or in the city screen.

The main factor in those games feeling like boardgame is that they're turn based. I would say XCom also somewhat feels like a boardgame to me, which is why I enjoy both those games, probably.
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Re: Civilization: Beyond Earth
« Reply #48 on: November 05, 2014, 06:42:47 pm »
+1

So if being turn-based is what differentiates board-games from video games, is Galaxy Trucker a video game?
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Re: Civilization: Beyond Earth
« Reply #49 on: November 05, 2014, 06:50:09 pm »
0

So if being turn-based is what differentiates board-games from video games, is Galaxy Trucker a video game?

I wasn't saying a board game needs to be turn based, I was saying the reason games like Hearthstone and Civ feel like board games is that they're turn based.

And in the case of Hearthstone, also because it's largely based on a board game. Well, a card game, but whatever.
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