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[yuma]

Request a prod on Robz and yuma.

These players have been prodded.

ash told me to say something... so

"something"

but seriously. I am on at work this week and didn't have time to post much of anything except where I absolutely had to and this might be all I can post today depending on what the rest of my night looks like.

But comparing me to Robz I don't think is fair at all. Prior to yesterday I was completely and totally active, far more than I would say the majority of other players. But that isn't really the point.

The point is that I am perfectly fine with my vote where it is. My vote was a for a good reason. Maybe not a good enough reason to lynch in isolation. Add in the self-vote and I am even more happy with it.

More to the point though is that I generally see townies who receive suspicion on them try and determine if the suspicion on them is coming from town or scum. joth doesn't really seem interested in trying to scumhunt based off his wagon, or really scum hunting in general. He is voting for WW, but I don't know why... I guess because he has a chance of being scum. Great lead!

However, I do agree with someone... WW I think said it that joth's reaction isn't really scummy. Reactions to wagons are rarely a good way to read someone because people are always going to react to a wagon. Really I think the only times reactions have yielded results are when someone has done the "that is a good point..." reaction. But his reaction isn't townie either. It is null so doesn't nullify my other read on him.

[Robz888]

I got prodded, so, here's a post.

Unfortunately, I can't do more right now! Real life is REALLY crazy right now. It's coming to an end soon, though (my business, not my life).



****
The above was originally posted in Forum Survivor. That's how out of things I am right now.

[Witherweaver]

Request a prod on Robz and yuma.

These players have been prodded.

ash told me to say something... so

"something"

but seriously. I am on at work this week and didn't have time to post much of anything except where I absolutely had to and this might be all I can post today depending on what the rest of my night looks like.

But comparing me to Robz I don't think is fair at all. Prior to yesterday I was completely and totally active, far more than I would say the majority of other players. But that isn't really the point.

The point is that I am perfectly fine with my vote where it is. My vote was a for a good reason. Maybe not a good enough reason to lynch in isolation. Add in the self-vote and I am even more happy with it.

More to the point though is that I generally see townies who receive suspicion on them try and determine if the suspicion on them is coming from town or scum. joth doesn't really seem interested in trying to scumhunt based off his wagon, or really scum hunting in general. He is voting for WW, but I don't know why... I guess because he has a chance of being scum. Great lead!

However, I do agree with someone... WW I think said it that joth's reaction isn't really scummy. Reactions to wagons are rarely a good way to read someone because people are always going to react to a wagon. Really I think the only times reactions have yielded results are when someone has done the "that is a good point..." reaction. But his reaction isn't townie either. It is null so doesn't nullify my other read on him.

Actually I think it was Andrewis.  But what's wrong with looking at reactions?  Everyone will react to a wagon, yes, but the logic that scum will react more strongly because they know theyre guilty doesn't seem faulty.  Then again, maybe scum is more conscious so they'll watch what they say more.

Maybe I get it.  But you've said a few times now that some things are scummy and some are not indicative either way, and I don't quite get the reasons.

[yuma]

A lot of it is just past experiences. I have seen wagon and wagon go through to a mislynch on town based off the idea that "X, reacted to a wagon strongly" or something along those lines.

My premise is what joth said above... town doesn't want to get lynched as much as scum does. No one wants to get lynched. People will always react strongly to a wagon--unless they just don't care, but that is a whole different situation. So I am not really interested in anaylzing how someone "reacts" whether it be strongly or annoyed or irritated or whatever.

I am a bit more interested in the subtler things. What else did they do in response? Did they analyze the wagon on them? Did they redirect the focus to somewhere else? Did the self-meta reference? And maybe even more important how did others react to the wagon? (Might be more important later in the game than it is now...) Things like that. So when I look at some of those specific things I see a little bit of a scummy response from joth (the self vote is obviously not a subtle response, but that is a whole different conversation as well, and one that I think you brought up perfect points about). But it is not because he responded aggressively or negatively. Nearly everyone will do that when faced with a wagon...

[yuma]

And I am not saying I am definitively right in this situation. Just rather that in the past I have had the expectation that "X and X is something mafia does" only to be proven wrong by a flip. So I have tried to not rely on super specific generalizations of what mafia will or won't do...

[AndrewisFTTW]

WW, everyone reacts in their own way. I seriously don't think that's indicative of anything. There can be exceptions, of course, but I rarely see anything in reactions unless something really sticks out to me.

[A Drowned Kernel]

WW, everyone reacts in their own way. I seriously don't think that's indicative of anything. There can be exceptions, of course, but I rarely see anything in reactions unless something really sticks out to me.

I don't see anything in reactions, unless I do.

[AndrewisFTTW]

WW, everyone reacts in their own way. I seriously don't think that's indicative of anything. There can be exceptions, of course, but I rarely see anything in reactions unless something really sticks out to me.

I don't see anything in reactions, unless I do.

Not what I said at all, actually.

[Teproc]

@Robz and yuma. Fine. And yeah yuma, you've been active and it's not fair comparing you to Robz, but I wasn't really doing that. I just got reminded of Robz's existence and realized at the same time that we hadn't heard from you in a while. I forgot how much your availability changed from one week to another, sorry.

I don't get what you're saying about joth's reaction at all. Of course no one wants to be lynched, but don't you agree that scum tends to feel the pressure earlier and stronger than town ? It's certainly been my experience as scum. joth's reaction was disproportionate to the actual pressure, AND his posts felt forced to me (which isn't an argument of course, just the way I perceived it).

[Witherweaver]

A lot of it is just past experiences. I have seen wagon and wagon go through to a mislynch on town based off the idea that "X, reacted to a wagon strongly" or something along those lines.

My premise is what joth said above... town doesn't want to get lynched as much as scum does. No one wants to get lynched. People will always react strongly to a wagon--unless they just don't care, but that is a whole different situation. So I am not really interested in anaylzing how someone "reacts" whether it be strongly or annoyed or irritated or whatever.

I am a bit more interested in the subtler things. What else did they do in response? Did they analyze the wagon on them? Did they redirect the focus to somewhere else? Did the self-meta reference? And maybe even more important how did others react to the wagon? (Might be more important later in the game than it is now...) Things like that. So when I look at some of those specific things I see a little bit of a scummy response from joth (the self vote is obviously not a subtle response, but that is a whole different conversation as well, and one that I think you brought up perfect points about). But it is not because he responded aggressively or negatively. Nearly everyone will do that when faced with a wagon...

Okay I see, thanks.

[AndrewisFTTW]

WW, everyone reacts in their own way. I seriously don't think that's indicative of anything. There can be exceptions, of course, but I rarely see anything in reactions unless something really sticks out to me.

I don't see anything in reactions, unless I do.

By the way just because I'm curious, what are you trying gain by posting sarcastic comments like this?

[Witherweaver]

I think something is wrong about this:

Joth, out of *everyone* on this site, knows the implications of self voting. And he knows some of us know that (me, robz, yuma?) but he also knows that the newer players would not have remembered what happened in whatever early mafia game that was and would likely react how they did there.

I don't think scum Joth would take this risk.

unvote

vote: DD

Please stop white knighting town and start bussing partners please!

Well, first, I don't buy this reasoning.  You could easily say town Joth wouldn't want to take this risk, either.  And town Joth would know that it would be at best a distraction to the town.  This seems like Axxle is just choosing to assign a town read to Joth, instead of genuinely having one.  Maybe because continuing to push a wagon would be too conspicuous?  In any case, Axxle's post here feels artificial.

Vote: Axxle

[Axxle]

Why would I do that as scum?

[Witherweaver]

Why would I do that as scum?

You need to have town reads.  You can't just look like you want to lynch everyone.

[A Drowned Kernel]

WW, everyone reacts in their own way. I seriously don't think that's indicative of anything. There can be exceptions, of course, but I rarely see anything in reactions unless something really sticks out to me.

I don't see anything in reactions, unless I do.

By the way just because I'm curious, what are you trying gain by posting sarcastic comments like this?

Just making a joke, there's nothing really in it. That said, you got awfully defensive about it.

Axxle might be the closest thing I have to a town read so far, so I find it interesting that my strongest scumread is voting for him.

[Axxle]

WW, everyone reacts in their own way. I seriously don't think that's indicative of anything. There can be exceptions, of course, but I rarely see anything in reactions unless something really sticks out to me.

I don't see anything in reactions, unless I do.

By the way just because I'm curious, what are you trying gain by posting sarcastic comments like this?

Just making a joke, there's nothing really in it. That said, you got awfully defensive about it.

What he said was a very town thing to say. He's trying to find your motivation, actually scumhunting.

(Andrew's my strongest townread btw)

[Axxle]

Why would I do that as scum?

You need to have town reads.  You can't just look like you want to lynch everyone.

yeah... but why the leading wagon that *I* revived/started? That seems ass backwards to me.

[yuma]

Well now that the RMM game is over, I might as well claim here as well once again since it worked pretty well there (up to the point of getting completely tricked by scum... but it did work to show that I was town and helped lead town, also this should help WIFOM mafia once again)...

I am a Dayvig!

not even kinda joking about this....

I am claiming based off my previous experience and because despite what ash said in the QC from the RMM game I believe this particular role is best served by having town input. It also forces town to decide if they want to kill me or not and need to worry about me shooting them. Last game I had two scum in my sights out of three players I put up for town, so my reads seem to be getting better.

I do not claim IC status equivalent of chairs or EFHW, but I do hope that my claim makes players see me as townier... although there were some doubters last game for a while.

And as I said it does WIFOM mafia. Do they target me out of fear of being killed with a shot they can't control instead of one of the ICs?

anyways I like our chances of hitting scum today as three of us should be out of the lynch pool (EFHW, chairs and me)

[mail-mi]

Well now that the RMM game is over, I might as well claim here as well once again since it worked pretty well there (up to the point of getting completely tricked by scum... but it did work to show that I was town and helped lead town, also this should help WIFOM mafia once again)...

I am a Dayvig!

not even kinda joking about this....

I am claiming based off my previous experience and because despite what ash said in the QC from the RMM game I believe this particular role is best served by having town input. It also forces town to decide if they want to kill me or not and need to worry about me shooting them. Last game I had two scum in my sights out of three players I put up for town, so my reads seem to be getting better.

I do not claim IC status equivalent of chairs or EFHW, but I do hope that my claim makes players see me as townier... although there were some doubters last game for a while.

And as I said it does WIFOM mafia. Do they target me out of fear of being killed with a shot they can't control instead of one of the ICs?

anyways I like our chances of hitting scum today as three of us should be out of the lynch pool (EFHW, chairs and me)

really twice in a row?

[Teproc]

That's hilarious. I'm assuming it's true because you know, that's not a good fakeclaim at all. Could still be scum, but certainly not someone we want to lynch today.

I lost track of WoT fairly early, did you end up vigging day 1 there ? The most obvious way to use it would be to kill whoever we want to lynch and then have some time to discuss the flip before going into the night, with the option of lynching someone else if we feel like it.

[faust]

Seriously?

We are 14 players right now... eventually we want to get to an odd number. We could have a lynch AND a vig shot today, which gives early information. Downside of course is our reads aren't as good.

Starting to wonder what kind of PRs mafia has.... town really seems absurdly strong here. Two ICs AND a dayvig?

[faust]

yuma could of course be a scum dayvig. If so, he would be kind of forced to claim today, because of meta stuff. That would kind of suck for him.

[chairs]

lolwtf dayvig

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm a little suspicious of the dayvig claim. I mean we shouldn't lynch him today. But mafia dayvig does seem like a real possibility. Yuma do you have any thoughts as to potential targets today?

[Axxle]

I think he should target someone today. I don't want to risk scum killing him tonight and losing a town controlled kill.